Is there a problem?

[Cleetus]

Yes. The cancer is Keefe and the Core 4.

and Kirk Cousins lmao!

 

[Malachi Crunch]

Honestly the over reactions on this board are mind blowing I'm actually in shock at how people are reacting.

Weak sauce all around.

It’s like a den of neurosis in here today.

 

[HockeyVirus]

They are in love with their stars because they sell tickets, have them getting consistent playoff revenue, and sell a lot of merch.

If the team was Vegas we have a major disruption this offseason. 2 of core traded, new coach and gm

 

[tokyoite]

Shanahan is the source of all evil.

 

[Leafs87]

Problems are usually not the base of the pyramid, but the peak.

10.9
11.0
11.6

That is where the issue is.

Players would likely follow them into the trenches, but they aren't being lead into the trenches.
The leaders are standing aside, smirking, laughing, and pointing at the trenches.

I would take out 11.634 but yes I agree on the other two. Marner got an outlier contract. JT was always greatly overrated imo

 

[Stephen]

Heard from multiple people that ROR is a bit of a prick in the locker room. I can almost guarantee he rubbed a couple people the wrong way in that Leafs locker room.

Well. He’s not a saint. He was a money money money guy in Colorado and signed a back breaking offer sheet with Calgary. Eventually got shipped out of Colorado to Buffalo where he was a flop and had to relearn his love of the game in St. Louis after the terrible team chemistry in Buffalo. Won the cup, earned a sterling reputation and came here and was a charmer. I would have wanted him back. And I don’t mind if he was a prick to people in that room. But whatever the past is the past.

 

[Peasy]

Let me ask you a simple question.

If from everything you've seen, and knowing what Matthews and Marner make and are going to fight for in their next contracts, would you want to go to war for them in the playoffs?

I know my answer.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Fk Brendan Shanahan.

Money hungry core, No one wants to stay. We are chasing after players that won't solve the problem.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Shanahan is the source of all evil.

Where’s an exorcist when you need one?

that’s right. Dubas traded him at the deadline.

 

[pcruz]

This is what I wrote in the Spezza thread when he quit.

We could start reading the writing on the wall in terms of how the players and the peripheral management staff were reading things:

[I][B]pcruz[/B][/I]​

Registered User​

Mar 7, 2013 5,636 3,479 Vaughan

• May 20, 2023
• Add bookmark
• #247

Some incredibly short-sighted takes.
But, coming from Leaf fans, it's almost second nature to be short sighted and focused on the micro while forgoing the big picture.

The star players were not worried, someone said.

Worried about what, exactly?

25 year old multi millionaires with talent oozing out of them have what to be worried about?

Moving to another team where they will make just as much money and have just as good a chance to win?

Maybe you're assuming they won't get offers as attractive as the ones from Toronto? Bahahahah


As for the Spezza situation:

There is a saying: The rising tide lifts all boats.

Normally, that's used to illustrate the benefit of some usually means the benefit of everyone else.

However, you can use that to gauge the mood of different people.

You don't need to measure the water lever itself, if the boats start rising, it's a clear sign the tide is coming up.

The Spezza resignation signifies the mood of the people in the organization that are closest to the players, and it should be inferred, the players as well.

Spezza had a unique role in the league -> immediately former player in the head office with unlimited connections throughout the league.

Players considering Toronto could just reach out to a peer (as close to a current player as could be), and ask about conditions here.

That's gone.

It may not seem like much, but when convincing players to come here, anything that could offset the (real or perceived) extra scrutiny or stress associated with Toronto, every bit is needed.

The closest we have left is Gio, but he's an active player and it's a little different.


It's clear, now that the players who have had the opportunity to go elsewhere for reasonably similar deals as what they would get in Toronto, have left.

Were they so pissed off about whatever happened towards the end of the playoff run, or that Dubas was fired, or that Spezza quit that it made them jump ship?

I doubt that it was a major factor.

However, when weighing 2 similar contracts in front of you, little things can determine how you move forward.

Ryan O'Reilly's family are superfans of the Leafs. He sounded like he absolutely loved being a Leaf.
Said that everyone from this market should try to a member of this team at least at some point in their career because of what it means to them and how well they're treated.

And then he left to go to Nashville, a place he has no connection to, for the same kind of deal (maybe even lesser) than he would have gotten in Toronto.
Nashville, a team that blew itself apart this offseason and is looking at a rebuild, whereas Toronto is in the middle of their win now window.

The exact same thing can be said for Acciari. There is no way that Toronto didn't offer him a deal at least as good as the one he chose in Pitt.




So, the question is:

Is there something wrong?

There is. It may not be horribly bad, but there's definitely something awry with this organization, and I think it stems from the very top, and is concentrated with the head coach.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Sounds like RoR might have come back if we fired Keefe. He was not a fan of Sheldon.

 

[Gabriel426]

This is what I wrote in the Spezza thread when he quit.

We could start reading the writing on the wall in terms of how the players and the peripheral management staff were reading things:

[I][B]pcruz[/B][/I]​

Registered User​

Mar 7, 2013 5,636 3,479 Vaughan

• May 20, 2023
• Add bookmark
• #247

Some incredibly short-sighted takes.
But, coming from Leaf fans, it's almost second nature to be short sighted and focused on the micro while forgoing the big picture.

The star players were not worried, someone said.

Worried about what, exactly?

25 year old multi millionaires with talent oozing out of them have what to be worried about?

Moving to another team where they will make just as much money and have just as good a chance to win?

Maybe you're assuming they won't get offers as attractive as the ones from Toronto? Bahahahah


As for the Spezza situation:

There is a saying: The rising tide lifts all boats.

Normally, that's used to illustrate the benefit of some usually means the benefit of everyone else.

However, you can use that to gauge the mood of different people.

You don't need to measure the water lever itself, if the boats start rising, it's a clear sign the tide is coming up.

The Spezza resignation signifies the mood of the people in the organization that are closest to the players, and it should be inferred, the players as well.

Spezza had a unique role in the league -> immediately former player in the head office with unlimited connections throughout the league.

Players considering Toronto could just reach out to a peer (as close to a current player as could be), and ask about conditions here.

That's gone.

It may not seem like much, but when convincing players to come here, anything that could offset the (real or perceived) extra scrutiny or stress associated with Toronto, every bit is needed.

The closest we have left is Gio, but he's an active player and it's a little different.


It's clear, now that the players who have had the opportunity to go elsewhere for reasonably similar deals as what they would get in Toronto, have left.

Were they so pissed off about whatever happened towards the end of the playoff run, or that Dubas was fired, or that Spezza quit that it made them jump ship?

I doubt that it was a major factor.

However, when weighing 2 similar contracts in front of you, little things can determine how you move forward.

Ryan O'Reilly's family are superfans of the Leafs. He sounded like he absolutely loved being a Leaf.
Said that everyone from this market should try to a member of this team at least at some point in their career because of what it means to them and how well they're treated.

And then he left to go to Nashville, a place he has no connection to, for the same kind of deal (maybe even lesser) than he would have gotten in Toronto.
Nashville, a team that blew itself apart this offseason and is looking at a rebuild, whereas Toronto is in the middle of their win now window.

The exact same thing can be said for Acciari. There is no way that Toronto didn't offer him a deal at least as good as the one he chose in Pitt.




So, the question is:

Is there something wrong?

There is. It may not be horribly bad, but there's definitely something awry with this organization, and I think it stems from the very top, and is concentrated with the head coach.

It could also be the big four or core four.

I think the core four is a problem, coach too and MGT can’t do anything bc they are going to live and die with the Core Four

 

[WTFMAN99]

The window is closed at minimum for 2 years while you run the Tavares contract out.

Depending on how the Matthews / 88 / Marner contracts go, it might be permanently closed.

 

[Mudz]

Sounds like RoR might have come back if we fired Keefe. He was not a fan of Sheldon.

Why not?

 

[authentic]

Well. He’s not a saint. He was a money money money guy in Colorado and signed a back breaking offer sheet with Calgary. Eventually got shipped out of Colorado to Buffalo where he was a flop and had to relearn his love of the game in St. Louis after the terrible team chemistry in Buffalo. Won the cup, earned a sterling reputation and came here and was a charmer. I would have wanted him back. And I don’t mind if he was a prick to people in that room. But whatever the past is the past.

The only way I could imagine him being a prick is in the sense of maybe calling out some players on our team for laziness. It's hard to imagine why he would just be an asshole in general.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Where are our shiny new toys then? Why couldn't we retain ROR, Accairi, or Schenn?

Because they didn't want to pay Schenn nearly 3 million a year to play on the bottom pair, which by the way is the right call.

I wanted Schenn back but not at 2.75 per year

 

[Fogelhund]

This is what I wrote in the Spezza thread when he quit.

We could start reading the writing on the wall in terms of how the players and the peripheral management staff were reading things:

[I][B]pcruz[/B][/I]​

Registered User​

Mar 7, 2013 5,636 3,479 Vaughan

• May 20, 2023
• Add bookmark
• #247

Some incredibly short-sighted takes.
But, coming from Leaf fans, it's almost second nature to be short sighted and focused on the micro while forgoing the big picture.

The star players were not worried, someone said.

Worried about what, exactly?

25 year old multi millionaires with talent oozing out of them have what to be worried about?

Moving to another team where they will make just as much money and have just as good a chance to win?

Maybe you're assuming they won't get offers as attractive as the ones from Toronto? Bahahahah


As for the Spezza situation:

There is a saying: The rising tide lifts all boats.

Normally, that's used to illustrate the benefit of some usually means the benefit of everyone else.

However, you can use that to gauge the mood of different people.

You don't need to measure the water lever itself, if the boats start rising, it's a clear sign the tide is

There is. It may not be horribly bad, but there's definitely something awry with this organization, and I think it stems from the very top, and is concentrated with the head coach.

The thing is, we are speculating. We don’t know if it’s coaching, players, mgmt.. or what it is. We can agree, something isn’t right, but what that is …..

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

If Bunkis is correct regarding O'Reilly's decision to leave, holding on to Keefe is even more damaging than it first appears, and holding onto him already looked like a massive f***up. Look it's one thing to walk away from O'Reilly because management thinks he's past his prime and they don't want him, it's a whole other story if they did approach him to come back, and the decision to keep Keefe was the reason a Conn Smythe winner would rather take his chances with a rebuilding Nashville team.

 

[Antropovsky]

Sounds like RoR might have come back if we fired Keefe. He was not a fan of Sheldon.

Where did you hear this?

Heard from multiple people that ROR is a bit of a prick in the locker room. I can almost guarantee he rubbed a couple people the wrong way in that Leafs locker room.

What he didn't want to take part in Mitch Marners Karaoke team building events?

 

[Puckstuff]

The team looks completely depleted. They lost all of their grit in ROR, Schenn, Acciari. We have no 3rd line or good complements to the core 4. As of now, Calle freaking Jarnkrok is this teams most proven 5th forward and Knies, a rookie. We need at minimum 2-3 players who can score 20+ goals with grit. And we know that’s not happening. I dont want to be negative, but good luck replacing ROR. It says a lot that ROR took less to be away from his hometown team.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Shanahan is the straw that stirs the drink.

All the problems start at the top, with him. The main problem being that Shanahan actually thinks he knows what he's doing. Stupid people don't know they're stupid.

But Shanahan compounds it with a "smartest guy in the room" attitude.

The quintessential hockey man. He's paid his dues already. Clawing his way to the top of the NHL world.

Heaven forbid a man of such massive intellect ever be wrong.

So there's no reason to fix his mistakes. Because he doesn't make any. In his mind he's already won the cup.

A revolution isn't made by smoking dope and hanging Che's picture.

If anyone doesn't like the way their favourite team is being run, now is the time to say something. The Shanahan regime has never been weaker. It only took one jersey thrower for change to take place in Vancouver.

If the Leafs get off to a bad start again this year, you would think a few waffles and jersey's on the ice at Scotiabank Arena would be enough to incite any ownership with even a shred of dignity and pride to make the necessary changes here too, including firing Shanahan..

The proverbial straw that broke the camels back.

 

[MAB1]

$11m for a ppg 2 way leader centre would be fine if the cap was $95m like it should be after 4 years of average growth.
The nba salary cap has gone up something like 20% in the same time the nhl cap went up 2m

JT isn't a leader
JT isn't two-way good god
He's not ppg either

The reason the Leafs haven't gotten to where they wanna be is bc they gave $11 million/year to a dude who went ppg with bums in NYI....only to remain at that same production playing on a team with an MVP, a top 3-5 winger and another ppg winger.

If Tavares performed at a Matthews/Marner level the Leafs playoff problems would've ended a long time ago. The fact this dude gained exceptional status at one point in his life is a joke. He peaked as a teenager.

Stamkos - 2017
Tavares - 2018
Pietrangelo - 2019

And they picked the worst one out of the group and gave him the biggest contract...and the other two are champs now... Good ole hometown Euro boy tho so it's alright to these dinosaur leaf fans.

 

[Duffman955]

Something seems off

 

[The Shrike]

I remember knowing we were f***ed because of the cap and was capable of doing basic math.

So, you have the ability to accurately predict the future, and saw the coming Covid epidemic, and the resulting crash in league wide revenues, and the subsequent flat cap?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Is there a problem?

Yes.

ROR is not fleet of foot, he's often injured, and a 4 year ask is too much.

Holl was a 6th defenseman. You can sign a player like this for less money and term. Why Yzerman gave him that contract I have no idea.

Bunting's antics grew tired in TOR. He never showed up big in the playoffs. He is sitting at home right now embellishing in the mirror as we speak.

Kerfoot is in a hockey obscure market now. He can take bad penalties and miss sweet goal scoring opportunities there.

Yes, there is a problem.

Shanahan decided on a whim to screw over and get rid of the best GM this franchise has had in decades, in order to go back to our usual old dinosaur that seems to have no clue what he's doing.

What is stopping you from cheering for PIT?