Is There a Case For Kucherov > Ovechkin?

[Adele Dazeem]

Ovechkin is one of the best players period.
Kucherov is one of the best players of his generation.
Two different tiers.

 

[Hamilton Bulldogs]

Tampa would have 4 straight cups if they had prime Ovechkin.

Kucherov is incredible but Ovechkin is in another tier all together.

 

[filinski77]

People really underrating Kucherov's past 4 years. Peak to peak, its basically even, with Kucherov's playoff stats being vastly better.

Considering Ovi fell off hard after 2010 point wise, won't be hard for 30+ Kucherov to outperform Ovi's 2nd half career.

It is not even close to "basically even".

Kucherov's 4-season peak (over 5 years):

Ovechkin's 4-season peak (over 5 years - removing 06/07):

There's a solid argument that all-3 of Ovechkin's lindsay seasons are better than Kucherov's 2019. And at worst, 2008 is #1, 2019 is #2, and then 2009 and 2010 Ovi are much more dominant than Kucherov's 2nd and 3rd best season. Realistically, Ovechkin's 4th worst season of this group is better than Kucherov's second.

If we're honest, Ovechkin's '2nd peak', which included a string of 4 of the most dominant goal-scoring seasons of all-time (just in the DPE 2.0) is a more fair comparison vs. Kucherov.

 

[Pierre Larouche]

OP you didn't see Ov in his prime did you? He was an absolute machine, and did a lot of his damage on a piss poor team the first 3 seasons. Prime OV puts prime Kucherov to shame ainec!

They are different types of players. Period. Both brilliant.

 

[bobholly39]

I think it's closer than people think. And this isn't meant as a disrespect to Ovechkin, but moreso a recognition of Kucherov, who I feel gets very underrated in an all-time sense.

Ovechkin to me is clearly a top ~15 player of all-time. He's in that Crosby/Jagr/Hasek tier, give or take a few spots depending on your own preference. I personally have him right around #10, give or take ~1 spot.

I don't think Kucherov is that high obviously, but I do have Kucherov firmly in the Forbserg/Malkin tier, probably top ~50 all-time. And the reason why I say it's closer than people think (despite this being a big gap) is because Kucherov is only 29 years old and can still add more.

If Kucherov can remain solid for another ~4-5 years, maybe adding more individual trophies, or more cups and smythe worthy runs - I think he can still rise quite a few ranks.

I think it's very unlikely he would ever reach quite as high as Ovechkin - but he could get even closer.

 

[Toby91ca]

You are confusing good with stacked. Bolts have more hall of famers by a long shot.

Stamkos, hedman and Vas all look to be locks. Could u imagine ovis numbers if he had those guts on his team.

If I had to rank bolts players?
Hedman
Vas
Kuch/stamkos

No arguments from me, Ovechkin vastly superior career and it doesn't seem at all likely Kucherov will close that gap over the remaining years he has left. That said, why do you think playing with those 3 players would boost OV's numbers?

I don't think Vas is going to help his numbers nor Stamkos, in fact, having Stamkos on his team may reduce his numbers (different for Kucherov of course....it helps). Hedman, who knows, but OV already played with a Dman that was all out offense, so while Hedman is a better defenseman than anyone he's played with, not sure it helps his numbers.

 

[Riseonfire]

No.

/thread.

That was easy.

 

[SkinsFan09]

Lightning without Kucherov: 86-37
Capitals without Ovechkin: 24-28

Ovechkin has way more of a load to shoulder every night. Kucherov has played with more talent his entire career and yes that includes the 2009-10 Capitals who were an offensive machine but horrific defensively and at goaltender.

The only two seasons with comparable talent are 2016-17 and 2015-16 Capitals who ran into the Stanley Cup Champions that were fortunate to have two MVP caliber centers at their disposal.

 

[GreatSaveEssensa]

They are different types of players. Period. Both brilliant.

Never once said they weren't both great players. But the OP’s question was is there a case for Kuch being better then OV. There is none…zero….ziltch. Period.

 

[Nasti]

Pick a winger, center, defenceman, and a goalie. Only seems fair to pick one of each major position.

If he's at the very least not on your shortlist for wingers (if/once he breaks the goal record), then you need to pay more attention.

There’s no requirement for each position on this hypothetical Mt Rushmore, but if there was, I take Jagr and Howe over Ovechkin easily.

 

[Coffee]

No

You are so wrong

 

[MessierII]

No not close

 

[psycat]

Absolutely no way Kucherovs legacy surpasses OVs.

Legacy absolutely Ovi will be ahead but in a playoff run both at their best? Id settle for any of them to be honest. Similiar caliber of players just not similiar caliber of careers.

 

[Pierre Larouche]

There’s no requirement for each position on this hypothetical Mt Rushmore, but if there was, I take Jagr and Howe over Ovechkin easily.

Ovi puts Howe in his back pocket and the scores.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Depends on which ovechkin your talking about. 06-10 ovechkin or 2011 and beyond ovechkin. Post 2010 a 25 year old ovechkin would find himself struggling to hit a ppg and more often or not fall below that sometimes scoring 65,69,71 points in full seasons well outside the top 10 in scoring. Ovechkin from age 25-37 scored 90 or more points exactly once and that was 90 on the dot.

 

[Acallabeth]

Ovechkin from age 25-37 scored 90 or more points exactly once and that was 90 on the dot.

It was also his 36 years old season, which illustrates how inflated modern scoring is.

 

[Aurinko]

If you normalize the TOI, Kucherov has 30% higher career playoffs production and is actually leading his team in plusminus.

You really love your snipers if you pick Ovie over Kucherov.

 

[Caps8112]

Would be interesting to see what Prime Ovi and Crosby could have put up in a season 11 players broke 100 points with one being a Dman. Imagine they both would be closer to Mcdavids lead then Draistail. Also, not Kuchs faults but Ovi and Crosby to a lesser extent (malkin) didnt have the absolutely loaded teams Tampa has had.

 

[Hoek]

Tampa would have 4 straight cups if they had prime Ovechkin.

Kucherov is incredible but Ovechkin is in another tier all together.

Talent wise I agree but I think Ovechkin would be a bit redundant with Stamkos, even though the latter is obviously inferior. Kucherov is the straw that stirs the drink.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

I think it's closer than people think. And this isn't meant as a disrespect to Ovechkin, but moreso a recognition of Kucherov, who I feel gets very underrated in an all-time sense.

Ovechkin to me is clearly a top ~15 player of all-time. He's in that Crosby/Jagr/Hasek tier, give or take a few spots depending on your own preference. I personally have him right around #10, give or take ~1 spot.

I don't think Kucherov is that high obviously, but I do have Kucherov firmly in the Forbserg/Malkin tier, probably top ~50 all-time. And the reason why I say it's closer than people think (despite this being a big gap) is because Kucherov is only 29 years old and can still add more.

If Kucherov can remain solid for another ~4-5 years, maybe adding more individual trophies, or more cups and smythe worthy runs - I think he can still rise quite a few ranks.

I think it's very unlikely he would ever reach quite as high as Ovechkin - but he could get even closer.

Extremely accurate take in my opinion, I agree with everything in this post.

 

[AndreRoy]

Talent wise I agree but I think Ovechkin would be a bit redundant with Stamkos, even though the latter is obviously inferior.

Post injury, yes. Pre-injury Stamkos was very much on Ovi’s level.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Not even close

 

[psycat]

Would be interesting to see what Prime Ovi and Crosby could have put up in a season 11 players broke 100 points with one being a Dman. Imagine they both would be closer to Mcdavids lead then Draistail. Also, not Kuchs faults but Ovi and Crosby to a lesser extent (malkin) didnt have the absolutely loaded teams Tampa has had.

I mean maybe not as loaded as the lightnings but I would say both teams were pretty stacked at times, and they also won a couple of president trophys which shows that. Bäckström, Green, Semin etc is not that far off from what Kucherov has to work with in my mind.

Now debate is pointless in my opinion since Ovis career is in the top 20 all time and Kucherov is very unlikely to match that, as far as peak goes they are pretty close(as are Crosby, Malkin etc).

For a run at the cup or one regular season at their peak you could really go with either, for a full career Ovi is in a very high tier and not reasonable to expect pretty much any players to eclipse him.

 

[Caps8112]

I mean maybe not as loaded as the lightnings but I would say both teams were pretty stacked at times, and they also won a couple of president trophys which shows that. Bäckström, Green, Semin etc is not that far off from what Kucherov has to work with in my mind.

Now debate is pointless in my opinion since Ovis career is in the top 20 all time and Kucherov is very unlikely to match that, as far as peak goes they are pretty close(as are Crosby, Malkin etc).

For a run at the cup or one regular season at their peak you could really go with either, for a full career Ovi is in a very high tier and not reasonable to expect pretty much any players to eclipse him.

Can see a lot of what you say but don't think green/Hedman, mcdonaugh works well or semin/point or Stamkos. Kuzy might be ok comparable but only for 1 season. Just think those Tampa teams were loaded.

 

[lionsDen]

OVI is probably one of the most known nhl players of the last 20 years. Sports fans who don’t follow nhl know him. Kucherov is no where near him