Former Bruins Is Ray Bourque a Top 10 All-Time Player?

[Dennis Bonvie]

Never saw Keon, but definitely remember Chris Pronger. I would say at best he’s in the lower tier. I think Dave Keon is overrated because he was a Leaf, and I never understood the love affair with Pronger.

Need to explain why you consider Keon overrated without ever seeing him play.

 

[rfournier103]

Need to explain why you consider Keon overrated without ever seeing him play.

So, I’m going to have to eat some crow here.

For starters, I freely admit that I didn’t take Keon seriously because he was a Maple Leaf. I am well aware that Toronto was a powerhouse in the ‘60s, but I never realized that Keon won the Cup four times with the Leafs, AND is the only Maple Leaf to ever win the Conn Smythe. I had him confused with Darryl Sittler. I also looked up Darryl Sittler and although he never had the playoff success that Keon did, he was a pretty good player himself.

After doing a little legwork, I’m willing to reconsider my position on Dave Keon and Darryl Sittler, too.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I’ll do a list and would appreciate you weighing in - you saw as much or more then me

Going to work at Forwards first

I love lists.

 

[BobbyAwe]

I don't remember Bourque getting heavier during his career, though. I mean, everyone does, but not in the sense where you'd say "he got heavy." He was still in amazing shape his final season.

He was 197 as a rookie and probably 220 at the end. His best weight for the long prime of his career was around 210. He was built like a brick "shithouse" in any event and was mostly muscle.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

He was 197 as a rookie and probably 220 at the end. His best weight for the long prime of his career was around 210. He was built like a brick "shithouse" in any event and was mostly muscle.

He really didn't look that heavy.

 

[EverettMike]

He was 197 as a rookie and probably 220 at the end. His best weight for the long prime of his career was around 210. He was built like a brick "shithouse" in any event and was mostly muscle.

Yeah, which was my point. He gained weight, but he was never "heavy" the way people mean it as a negative. He was made of granite.

 

[jgatie]

Yeah, which was my point. He gained weight, but he was never "heavy" the way people mean it as a negative. He was made of granite.

I stood next to Ray once in his playing days, his thighs were wider than my freaking waist. When you have 32+" thighs, it's not hard to put lbs. on the scale.

 

[SpitfireIX]

I would not argue with anyone who put him in the top 10 but I could also see him being left out. I fell like once you get to the top 25 players, a case can be made for many of them to be in the top 10.

My top 10: Could certainly see Ray Bourque included.

1. Gretzky
2. "Rocket" Richard
3. Orr
4. Lemieux
5. Howe
6. Crosby
7. Lafleur
8. Jean Beliveau
9. Bobby Hull
10. Forsberg

 

[rfournier103]

I would not argue with anyone who put him in the top 10 but I could also see him being left out. I fell like once you get to the top 25 players, a case can be made for many of them to be in the top 10.

My top 10: Could certainly see Ray Bourque included.

1. Gretzky
2. "Rocket" Richard
3. Orr
4. Lemieux
5. Howe
6. Crosby
7. Lafleur
8. Jean Beliveau
9. Bobby Hull
10. Forsberg

Maurice Richard at number 2? Interesting. Were you lucky enough to see him play? Most don’t have him in the top 4, but somewhere in the 6-10 range.

I’m not agreeing or disagreeing, but I’d like to hear your thoughts on this.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Maurice Richard at number 2? Interesting. Were you lucky enough to see him play? Most don’t have him in the top 4, but somewhere in the 6-10 range.

I’m not agreeing or disagreeing, but I’d like to hear your thoughts on this.

General consensus, outside of Quebec province. There "The Rocket" is still a hockey god.

Like many of the old timers, his stock has gone down with time.

82 goals in 132 playoff games, playing in the 40's & 50's. A truly incredible feat.

 

[rfournier103]

General consensus, outside of Quebec province. There "The Rocket" is still a hockey god.

Like many of the old timers, his stock has gone down with time.

82 goals in 132 playoff games, playing in the 40's & 50's. A truly incredible feat.

Every regular here on this board knows how I feel about the Canadiens, but of all the players who ever skated for Montreal, there are none I respect more than Maurice Richard. He was so much bigger than a sport, and I am very aware of why he’s honored in Quebec the way he is.

I can’t think of any player more relentless than Richard. I’d have loved to see him play in person.

I firmly believe that he would eat the NHL alive if he played today. Like Alex Ovechkin with a bigger dorsal fin.

 

[Olden McGroin]

 

[The don godfather]

I would not argue with anyone who put him in the top 10 but I could also see him being left out. I fell like once you get to the top 25 players, a case can be made for many of them to be in the top 10.

My top 10: Could certainly see Ray Bourque included.

1. Gretzky
2. "Rocket" Richard
3. Orr
4. Lemieux
5. Howe
6. Crosby
7. Lafleur
8. Jean Beliveau
9. Bobby Hull
10. Forsberg

Call me crazy I would put bergy on that list. 6 selke ain't chicken feed and probably that record will never be broken. Bergy simply the best.

 

[rfournier103]

View attachment 743419

I saw this this morning and was going to post it here!

 

[rfournier103]

Call me crazy I would put bergy on that list. 6 selke ain't chicken feed and probably that record will never be broken. Bergy simply the best.

I love Patrice Bergeron. I really do. I’d invite him and his family to my house for Christmas Eve dinner if I knew how to reach him.

But…

Patrice Bergeron is not a Top Ten all-time player. He just isn’t, and he would be the first to say so. You could argue top ten Bruin of all-time - a much easier argument to make. Bergeron never won a Hart Trophy, an Art Ross Trophy, or a Conn Smythe. His all-time numbers aren’t eye-popping like Ray’s, for example. When Ray Bourque retired, I believe he was #2 all-time in assists. He’s still #4 all-time. Patrice isn’t top ten in any major statistic.

As I said, I love the man and he’s my favorite Bruin of all time, but he’s not Top Ten.

 

[The don godfather]

Scored the winning the goal game 7 in stanley cup final oh wait scored 2. Easily could have won the con smythe but timmy was hulk in the playoffs. Should have won a hart somewhere in his career too. There never will be a player like bergy who can dominate both ends of the ice. The cream of the crop of the 200 foot player.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Call me crazy I would put bergy on that list. 6 selke ain't chicken feed and probably that record will never be broken. Bergy simply the best.

You're crazy.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Scored the winning the goal game 7 in stanley cup final oh wait scored 2. Easily could have won the con smythe but timmy was hulk in the playoffs. Should have won a hart somewhere in his career too. There never will be a player like bergy who can dominate both ends of the ice. The cream of the crop of the 200 foot player.

Top ten all-time players are not "could have won" guys. Have to be "did win".

When should he have won a Hart? Never even got a first-place vote in his career.

Could be in the conversation for top 100.

 

[rfournier103]

Scored the winning the goal game 7 in stanley cup final oh wait scored 2. Easily could have won the con smythe but timmy was hulk in the playoffs. Should have won a hart somewhere in his career too. There never will be a player like bergy who can dominate both ends of the ice. The cream of the crop of the 200 foot player.

As solid as they come. I’d take him on my team in a heartbeat.

I’m going to give you a list of ten skaters and I want you to pick ONE that Patrice Bergeron should replace on this list.

Wayne Gretzky.
Bobby Orr.
Mario Lemieux.
Gordie Howe.
Jean Beliveau.
Bobby Hull.
Phil Esposito.
Ray Bourque.
Jaromir Jagr.
Mike Bossy.

That’s ten.

Here are a few others…

Guy LaFleur.
Maurice Richard.
Henri Richard.
Denis Potvin.
Larry Robinson.

I don’t have these players ranked in any particular order and I made this list off the top of my head. I know it’s a little heavy with Bruins and Habs, but they’ve had as many if not more great players than everyone else.

Here are some 21st century players that are very accomplished as well…

Steve Stamkos.
Alex Ovechkin.
Sidney Crosby.
Evgeni Malkin.
Connor McDavid.

Would you rank Bergy ahead of one of these players?

I’m not trying to be argumentative, and I promise that I respect your opinions as a hockey fan and a Bruins fan. I’m just trying to understand Patrice Bergeron’s place all-time as you see it, and how you arrived at your conclusion.

 

[smithformeragent]

Eddie Shore gets forgotten in many of these types of conversations, and I get why.

I won’t even talk about Orr when discussing the greats because I never saw the guy play and I feel like I’d be talking out my ass if I made any type of claim about his place all time.

 

[rfournier103]

Eddie Shore gets forgotten in many of these types of conversations, and I get why.

I won’t even talk about Orr when discussing the greats because I never saw the guy play and I feel like I’d be talking out my ass if I made any type of claim about his place all time.

Eddie Shore won four Hart Trophies and was Ty Cobb on ice skates. Fast. Relentless. Remorseless. I’ve read enough about him to know that he was an all-time great. I’ve seen a little video of him and he was a blazing fast skater. I have zero doubt that he could play in today's NHL. He would be an all-star and the #1 villain in the league.

You wouldn’t be talking out of your ass when it comes to Orr. When you look at Orr’s numbers closely, you can see how great he was. Winning two Art Ross Trophies is in and of itself enough to tell you how great he was.

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

Scored the winning the goal game 7 in stanley cup final oh wait scored 2. Easily could have won the con smythe but timmy was hulk in the playoffs. Should have won a hart somewhere in his career too. There never will be a player like bergy who can dominate both ends of the ice. The cream of the crop of the 200 foot player.

Anytime there's a game 7 in the Stanley cup finals someone is going to get credit for scoring the winning goal. Cool accomplishment but it has happened plenty of times for plenty of other players. Not something that puts him in rare company.

Max Talbot has 2 goals in a game 7 scf game.

And if Bergeron was a top 10 player of all time there would be no could've or should'ves

Bergy all time great Bruin. But far down the list of all time NHLers

 

[Johnny4778]

Bourque is on the third tier of all time great defenceman.
Orr
Shore, Harvey
Bourque, Lidstrom, Potvin

And probably between 10-20 all time.

I put him in the second tier or top of tier 3. Bourque over Lidstrom every day of week for me, and Potvin as well. I never liked Potvin he thought he was better than Orr. Could have easily given Bourque a few more Norris’s and couple of Harts; if Sinden ponied up a little bit could easily have a statue outside and a couple of cups in boston.

My fathers top 3 dman all time was
Orr
Park
Bourque

Grandfathers (born in ‘24)

Orr
Harvey
Shore
Bourque

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I put him in the second tier or top of tier 3. Bourque over Lidstrom every day of week for me, and Potvin as well. I never liked Potvin he thought he was better than Orr. Could have easily given Bourque a few more Norris’s and couple of Harts; if Sinden ponied up a little bit could easily have a statue outside and a couple of cups in boston.

My fathers top 3 dman all time was
Orr
Park
Bourque

Grandfathers (born in ‘24)

Orr
Harvey
Shore
Bourque

Or course, it was Sinden's fault Bourque doesn't have a statue or ring in Boston.

To me Bourque, Potvin and Lidstrom are really close. Most hockey people see it that way too. But as time marches on, Eddie Shore is losing ground and many "experts" are dropping him into that group also.

 

[smithformeragent]