mjhfb
Easier from up here
The best line from that video - "if Orr hadn't been born, Park would have won 7 Norris trophies".
Won’t argue with anyone mentioned above.
I will say that if he wanted to be, Malkin probably could have forced his way into the top 10-15.
I never got the feeling that he gave it his “all” consistently enough.
If he played every game with 1/2 the intensity or effort of a Clarke or O’Reilly, I think he’d be in that category.
The best line from that video - "if Orr hadn't been born, Park would have won 7 Norris trophies".
Ray is second or at worst third best defenseman of all time. If we exclude goalies and only consider skaters, the second best defenseman of all time should crack the top ten. The third best probably makes the top ten as well.Great player yes. Hall of famer yes. Top 10 all time? No for sure.
Ray is second or at worst third best defenseman of all time. If we exclude goalies and only consider skaters, the second best defenseman of all time should crack the top ten. The third best probably makes the top ten as well.
Really?No one considers Bourque the 2nd best defenseman ever.
He's usually considered top 5 all-time.
No one?No one considers Bourque the 2nd best defenseman ever.
He's usually considered top 5 all-time.
Same hereReally?
I’m someone, and I think he’s in the conversation for second best ever.
No one considers Bourque the 2nd best defenseman ever.
Same here
13x AS-1
6x AS-2
15x Norris Top 3
Unbelievable. Ray Bourque was a top elite, a complete player. Consistantly great.
For my money Ray Bourque is easily 2nd only to Bobby Orr among defensemen
He could easily have won 8-10 Norris. Definitely better than Doug Wilson, Rod Langway (2) and Chris Chelios
Bourque should have won Norris in 81-82; 82-83; 83-84 easily and more. That puts him up there with Orr’s eight while it could have been ten. Where do you go.
But Bourque didn’t have the supporting cast of the other D
I have all the respect for Eddie Shore, Doug Harvey, Denis Potvin, Larry Robinson, Niklas Lidstrom, Chris Chelios, Zdeno Chara.
All of them were surrounded by Hall of Famers or close to.
Shore had Lionel Hitchman, George Owen, later Babe Siebert, Flash Hollett and Dit Clapper and 6-7 star forwards
Harvey had Ken Reardon, Butch Bouchard, Tom Johnson later Dollard St. Laurent and Jean-Guy Talbot and 6-7 star forwards
Potvin had Stefan Persson, Tomas Jonsson, Ken Morrow, Dave Langevin and 6-7 star forwards
Robinson had Serge Savard, Guy Lapointe and top star forwards
Niklas Lidstrom had Vladimir Konstantinov, Viacheslav Fetisov, Larry Murphy part Chris Chelios, part Paul Coffey, Matthieu Schneider and 6-7 star forwards
Chelios had Larry Robinson, Eric Desjardins, Petr Svoboda in Montreal plus top forwards
Chelios had Doug Wilson, Gary Suter, Eric Weinrich in Chicago plus
Coffey had Kevin Lowe, Charlie Huddy, Randy Gregg and super star forwards
Brad Park had better supporting cast in New York with Jim Neilson, Tim Horton and Rod Seiling and I loved him in the summit series. Again in Boston Park was the lone star D
Zdeno Chara is a great leader and top defensive D who also brought some offense and toughness but no way in the same class as Raymond Bourque.
Put Bourque on defense to replace Park in 1979 and Bruins win. Put Bourque on defense to replace Chara in 2019 and Bruins win.
You say Ray didn’t win a cup in Boston. True, but once getting some quality help he won one in Colorado. Look what Harvey, Lidstrom and guys had to work with and compare to Ray.
Get an idea how good Bourque and Cam Neely were. Really great and top players.
Ray Bourque top ten all the way for me.
I believe in building from the defense and it’s hard to find ten better or more valuable players than a Raymond Bourque. Ability to perform at the highest level for so long is hard to find.
Most people have him at #2 edging out Harvey and Lidstrom
Even non Bruin diehards think he is 2OK, I should have said non-Bruins diehards.
General consensus of hockey historians is Orr and Harvey are 1 and 2. Then Shore, Bourque, Lidstrom and Potvin the next four in whatever order.
Lists and rankings like this are often subjective and partisan.OK, I should have said non-Bruins diehards.
General consensus of hockey historians is Orr and Harvey are 1 and 2. Then Shore, Bourque, Lidstrom and Potvin the next four in whatever order.
Even non Bruin diehards think he is 2
What a terrible defense
What a nice fence sitting reply this is.The older I get, the less I care about ranking things. Best player or best defenseman ever is an abstract concept not based in concrete reality. I try to stop myself from putting too much time into debating abstract or hypothetical things (then again, what else can we do during the offseason?)
That said, on the surface, not a top ten player. Probably a top 5, likely top 3 defenseman. But how can you compare players from 1926 with 2023 or anywhere in between when the game, conditioning, equipment, rules, competition, strategy, etc. changes all the time? Guys like Orr are transcendent, but can someone really make a conclusive and objective statement trying to compare Eddie Shore and Victor Hedman, for example?
OK, I should have said non-Bruins diehards.
General consensus of hockey historians is Orr and Harvey are 1 and 2. Then Shore, Bourque, Lidstrom and Potvin the next four in whatever order.
Yeah, there's a lot of historians that have him #2 as well. Go to the history board, it's basically a 50/50 split between him and Harvey for #2
Even non Bruin diehards think he is 2
What a terrible defense
Yeah, there's a lot of historians that have him #2 as well. Go to the history board, it's basically a 50/50 split between him and Harvey for #2
Yeah, there's a lot of historians that have him #2 as well. Go to the history board, it's basically a 50/50 split between him and Harvey for #2