Is Quinn Hughes overrated?

[Fulham]

Given that he is usually partnered with complete anchors, im impressed. Hard to put up PPG and then be asked to cover for someone like Myers or Benn on both ends of the ice. He's trying to do too much.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Fantastic offensively, easily one of the best in the league. However, I can’t really call him a #1 Dman because of the average at best defense.

 

[AvsFan29]

Hughes is better than Makar.

Lol k

 

[AvsFan29]

Hughes is better than Makar.

If you look at the statistics, you’ll notice that Makar is better at the position of defenceman than Hughes is.

 

[Szechwan]

Ignoring all the fans that are desperate to drag Makar into this..

Hughes is better in his own end than this early season has indicated, but he's still no defensive stalwart - nor do I recall anyone ever considering him to be one.

Hopefully he'll get a D partner on his level, he isn't at the point yet where he can carry the defensive load and god knows Myers and Benn aren't helping anyone.

When he played with Tanev he had a different kind of confidence, and even ignoring Tanev's contribution, seemed to do better in his own end. I think he learned a lot from that guy, it's too bad he had to move on.

 

[thebigbea]

As a canucks fan, i can say makar is a better overall dmen. He can play PP and pk.

 

[Big Empty]

IMO Makar is clearly better

 

[Andrei79]

QH is actually pretty underrated, he’s one of the only bright spots on the blue line. He’s a 21 year old kid who’s expected to carry the teams defence

Exactly.

What are people expecting from a 21 year old defenseman ? He's exceeded expectations up to now.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

IMO Makar is clearly better

It isn't even close at this point.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Lol k

Like a moth to the flame.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Avs fans: There’s no need to talk about Makar in this thread, unless someone else brings him up.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Avs fans: There’s no need to talk about Makar in this thread, unless someone else brings him up.

Youre right. Lets be the bigger fanbase.

 

[VNCVR]

He's actually rather good defensively. He's very young and his decreased speed due to trying to add a bit of size in the off season most likely slowed him down. Being small, speed and being able to keep up with players with skating is a huge part of his defensive game

Other teams fans wanted to knock the guy because they assumed at the beginning that he would be purely offensive and not as good as people were making him out to be and had no ammo but finally saw a glimpse of poor play and are jumping all over him. He will rebound. He puts alot of time and care into being a good defensive player, a personality like that will not simply be happy with just being an offensive d man. He wants to be the goto guy and will round out his game. Driven players will achieve it. You do not need to be huge to be sound defensively.

Even if you thought he couldn't defend a player when the other player has the puck on their stick (which he is actually good at when he's not going through a minor down period), his ability to get the puck out of the zone once he retrieves it, is also part of his defensive game and he's extremely good at that. He also has the ability to avoid forecheckers, also, apart of his defensive game. Theres alot to a defensive game, than just checking players

There's a reason the entire last year, canucks fans were talking about why they thought hughes was better than makar, it's because of his defensive game. That didn't magically go away. His speed will come back as quickly as it went away

The whole Canucks team is struggling (they might be one of the worst teams in the NHL despite their record (its being boosted by games vs Ottawa), this is going to drag down their top pairing D man's statistics, the top line of the Canucks are playing 1/4 as well as they have in years past, all of them are giving the puck away nonstop, how about pull up the graphs and statistics for the forwards. Pettersson, Miller, Boeser are struggling to have possession, they are giving the puck away, they are forcing things and setting up 2 (or 3) on 1's going the other way. The execution of the system that Green has laid out is being extremely poorly executed by the entire team. They've been eaten alive by an ex player who knows their systems. Every one of the canucks D are playing with a new D partner. It's how many games into the season? Those graphs mean nothing. Sometimes HFboards posters seem like it's their first year following hockey.

Canucks lost their top goalie, their top defensive d man and a top line player on their team last year. They took a step back, in order to take a step forward (whether that works out for them is another thing)

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

He's actually rather good defensively. He's very young and his decreased speed due to trying to add a bit of size in the off season most likely slowed him down. Being small, speed and being able to keep up with players with skating is a huge part of his defensive game

Other teams fans wanted to knock the guy because they assumed at the beginning that he would be purely offensive and not as good as people were making him out to be and had no ammo but finally saw a glimpse of poor play and are jumping all over him. He will rebound. He puts alot of time and care into being a good defensive player, a personality like that will not simply be happy with just being an offensive d man. He wants to be the goto guy and will round out his game. Driven players will achieve it. You do not need to be huge to be sound defensively.

Even if you thought he couldn't defend a player when the other player has the puck on their stick (which he is actually good at when he's not going through a minor down period), his ability to get the puck out of the zone once he retrieves it, is also part of his defensive game and he's extremely good at that. He also has the ability to avoid forecheckers, also, apart of his defensive game. Theres alot to a defensive game, than just checking players

There's a reason the entire last year, canucks fans were talking about why they thought hughes was better than makar, it's because of his defensive game. That didn't magically go away. His speed will come back as quickly as it went away

The whole Canucks team is struggling (they might be one of the worst teams in the NHL despite their record (its being boosted by games vs Ottawa), this is going to drag down their top pairing D man's statistics, the top line of the Canucks are playing 1/4 as well as they have in years past, all of them are giving the puck away nonstop, how about pull up the graphs and statistics for the forwards. Pettersson, Miller, Boeser are struggling to have possession, they are giving the puck away, they are forcing things and setting up 2 on 1's going the other way. The execution of the system that Green has laid out is being extremely poorly executed by the entire team. They've been eaten alive by an ex player who knows their systems. Every one of the canucks D are playing with a new D partner. It's how many games into the season? Those graphs mean nothing. Sometimes HFboards posters seem like it's their first year following hockey.

So you just ignored every graph that shows he is being caved in....niceeee!

 

[VNCVR]

So you just ignored every graph that shows he is being caved in....niceeee!

Did you read my full post? He is being caved in. At this current time.

You are ignoring context.

He's in his 2nd year in the NHL, the start of the year. Pettersson is also struggling, does that define the player Pettersson is? No? It doesn't with Hughes either. He is a 21 year old defender who is being asked to carry a D pairing because they traded away the only top defensive d man on the team. They also changed the goalie behind him. And he's defending behind a line who is severely struggling and playing the worst defensive hockey. Hughes is not the player giving up the 2 on 1's. And I will repeat. To think his struggles will continue is implying that his drop in speed is here to stay..

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Did you read my post? He is being caved in. At this current time.

Was he "good" or even something resembling maybe good last season defensively? He was and is still getting sheltered O zone starts. -10 last season while putting up 28 ES points. He is definitely worse this season, but was he ever considered good? Or is it a product of the whole team being garbage defensively?

 

[Elnino]

Supremely talented hockey player. Reminds me of prime Karlsson offensively and similarly his defensive game is not as bad as some are claiming. His lack of size/strength is apparent and Im not sure bulking up is the solution for him due to the way he plays the game. I foresee a couple Norris and probably 100+ career mainboard threads debating whether he is a 'true' number 1 dman.

 

[VNCVR]

Was he "good" or even something resembling maybe good last season defensively? He was and is still getting sheltered O zone starts. -10 last season while putting up 28 ES points. He is definitely worse this season, but was he ever considered good? Or is it a product of the whole team being garbage defensively?

He was rather good defensively actually. For a first year pro. Yes. He's a developing player like every other player. He wasn't on for a goal against in the world championships playing against men before he was in the NHL, the guy CAN defend pretty well already. What players are elite defensively in their first year, or even considered good by top d pairing standards? by 20 year old top pairing d standards, yes he was good defensively. He puts in a ton of effort to defend, he doesn't cheat, he makes safe plays, he's usually covering his man. Is he poor defensively or looking like he will develop into a purely offensive d man, absolutely not. Strength will come as he gets older, even a bit more strength will greatly assist a player like him who puts in the effort and has good defensive IQ.

To judge a young dman's game is to watch if he knows what he should be doing and if he's getting there, if he's failing to execute a bit due to being young and being a bit outsmarted or outmuscled by players in their prime years, well you can only expect he will iron out those details. There is a huge difference between purely offensive d men and a player like Hughes.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

He was rather good defensively actually. For a first year pro. Yes. He's a developing player like every other player. He wasn't on for a goal against in the world championships playing against men before he was in the NHL, the guy CAN defend pretty well already. What players are elite defensively in their first year, or even considered good by top d pairing standards? by 20 year old top pairing d standards, yes he was good defensively. He puts in a ton of effort to defend, he doesn't cheat, he makes safe plays, he's usually covering his man. Is he poor defensively or looking like he will develop into a purely offensive d man, absolutely not

Sorry I and a lot of people disagree and are looking at real NHL stats and graphs to prove the point. Can he improve because he has a lot of years ahead of him? Sure, but you dont get an asterisk for "being a first year pro" or "being a rookie". If you want recognition for Calder or Norris votes, you have to play with the big boys, not turtle and say "but hes just a little guy, dont pick on him."

PS - I will be the biggest Hughes fan ever once he rocks the USA jersey.

 

[VNCVR]

Sorry I and a lot of people disagree and are looking at real NHL stats and graphs to prove the point. Can he improve because he has a lot of years ahead of him? Sure, but you dont get an asterisk for "being a first year pro" or "being a rookie". If you want recognition for Calder or Norris votes, you have to play with the big boys, not turtle and say "but hes just a little guy, dont pick on him."

PS - I will be the biggest Hughes fan ever once he rocks the USA jersey.

When a player is starting his 2nd year, you need context to go with statistics because the sample size is too small. If you are pulling out stats that include this year, and this year's stats are dragging down the totals. You need to understand the context.

I could be wrong and it depends on the advanced statistics you are looking at but from my recollection, his advanced stats last year were very good, playing on a rather mediocre team. So I am not sure what statistic you want to base your judgement on, so confidently. But i imagine they would include this years small sample size

I explained the context for this years stats.

I don't understand how people can be so into throwing around advanced stats but fail to find the advanced stats that may represent other players. There are 5 players on the ice. Is it him thats struggling, what is the giveaway rate for the forwards in front of him, how about the save percentage of the goalie behind him, what about his average speed? How about comparing to last years data, etc - Thats poor data analysis. Honestly you can find a single statistic to back up anything you believe.

If somebody was pulling stats over multiple years once a player is established and their statistics are poor and their team is playing average, you have an argument. Pulling a single rookies stats when a team is crumbling and the top line who plays the majority of the game is not looking like themselves and the D man who is being questioned is starting year 2 with a new partner who couldn't even crack the NHL lineup last year... come on

Dont get me wrong, he isn't looking like his average self this year, because of his lack of speed and the entire team is out of sync. But going to the length of saying he's not a sound defensive player at this moment or to assume he's this purely offensive d man and that's what he projects to be.. (which a lot believe), makes me think you haven't watched the player. He is not a D man you have to worry about defensively. He bottoms out as a d man who you may want an equally sound defensive d man with, simply due to his offensive ability and his upside is somebody like Keith.. he will never ever be poor defensively

 

[Three On Zero]

Exactly.

What are people expecting from a 21 year old defenseman ? He's exceeded expectations up to now.

Also look at the 4/5 of the defenders he’s playing with

 

[Honest M]

Supremely talented hockey player. Reminds me of prime Karlsson offensively and similarly his defensive game is not as bad as some are claiming. His lack of size/strength is apparent and Im not sure bulking up is the solution for him due to the way he plays the game. I foresee a couple Norris and probably 100+ career mainboard threads debating whether he is a 'true' number 1 dman.

Really "prime Karlsson"... u mean the Karlsson who carried ottawa to conference final and game seven against the champs 2017, with a broken foot? Or maybe that was after his prime hence the injuries.

Ok..... Yes Hughes is over rated


IMO He is a young defenseman with some terrific tools but also flaws, and needs to and will develop and adapt his game to that.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

What's the easiest way to start a conversation about Cale Makar?

Starting a Quinn Hughes thread.

 

[VNCVR]

Really "prime Karlsson"... u mean the Karlsson who carried ottawa to conference final and game seven against the champs 2017, with a broken foot? Or maybe that was after his prime hence the injuries.

Ok..... Yes Hughes is over rated


IMO He is a young defenseman with some terrific tools but also flaws, and needs to and will develop and adapt his game to that.

The main thing is that his defensive IQ is infact very high, he's just failing to execute on minor things when his game is off, which is just age. He's never lost positionally, he's always in the right spots, he doesn't cheat when he shouldn't, etc. It's very clear when you watch him and what leads to the goals against. It's how you are losing that matters. This is why coaches dont get too worried when a team goes through a minor losing streak if theyre playing well. You shouldn't question a players defensive ability or upside based on current statistics, the same way you shouldn't judge a teams play based on their record over a small stretch.

People want to believe that a player who is so offensive, must be poor defensively. It's because statistics show us, thats generally the case. Hughes is currently sound defensively and could be great defensively. He needs to play with a good defensive partner because he's so good offensively that he should be allowed to focus a bit more on that. He is currently playing with a d man who couldnt crack last years d group, which was a rather poor d group and before that, he was playing with a d man who hadn't played in a year and was on a brand new team learning a new system and has also fallen off a cliff in recent years Those are not d men you want on a #1 pairing. Combine that with not being on top of your own game...