Is Quinn Hughes overrated?

[PettersonHughes]

His game was always about skating, puck-control and creativity, and if anyone was highly rating him I'd say it had to have started with scouts and media. Even so it's not like it's not impressive as to what he's done so far as an elite roving D-man, so give the kid his due credit. Hope OP wasn't roasting Karlsson during his Norris seasons for a blunder he made in his own end.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Sorry I and a lot of people disagree and are looking at real NHL stats and graphs to prove the point. Can he improve because he has a lot of years ahead of him? Sure, but you dont get an asterisk for "being a first year pro" or "being a rookie". If you want recognition for Calder or Norris votes, you have to play with the big boys, not turtle and say "but hes just a little guy, dont pick on him."

PS - I will be the biggest Hughes fan ever once he rocks the USA jersey.

Hahahaha, says it all about this site.

Right, watching a player play 100 games is nothing compared to spreadsheets that capture the first 13 games of a sophomore defence man on a team that is currently struggling, that has played 13 games in 21 days with zero exhibition games.

Yeah, I really trust the conclusions that are being drawn here.

This is a reload year for the Canucks. We hope that our best players pick it up enough for us to make a bit of noise this year, but our window starts in two years when the 25 million that we are wasting on washed up vets comes off the books.

Comparing Makar and Hughes in a definitive way right now is asinine because:

A. He's a year older.
B. He has Girard, Toews, Byram, etc to share the load, whereas Hughes is the primary focus of every opponent.
C. He's on a team that is considerably better. Look, I put the Lotto line up against almost any line in the league, but Mackinnon/Landeskog/Rantanen (I know they aren't always together) are better. The Avs depth blows Vancouver's out of the water.

Is Hughes struggling right now? Yes. The whole team is. A bunch of kids have had the spine of the team removed (Tanev, Markstrom). They're being asked to do more for less.

A good fan of the league would be well within their rights to say, "Hey it looks like Hughes is struggling, Van fans, what's going on?"

But then they wouldn't get their sad little dopamine injections of inserting themselves into the conversation with cool hot takes like, "Hey, that 21 year old who is scoring at a literal hall of fame level for a young defence man is bad and he has never been good".

I genuinely wish it was possible to brand users with their loud opinions. I wonder if people would be a little more cautious in showing their whole ass if it was easy to look through their old takes and be like, "Oh, you thought Prucha was better than Crosby? haha, I'm not going to bother arguing".

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

This thread would devolve into a Canucks fan posting a random fluke play that didn’t go Makar’s way. Smh.

 

[Rydgar]

I'm not sure what to say other than he has not been playing as well defensively or offensively as last year. I don't care about his points, there is way too many fumbles on the PP and a lot more giveaways. He seems slower, I assume it's because he's more tired being forced to play in his own end a lot more. Last year I'd say Hughes was the catalyst on his pairing. Everyone, not just Tanev, played better when they were on his pairing. Advanced stats actually had Myers as his best pairing partner last year. Tanev, on the other hand, actually brought down his pairing partner.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

Hahahaha, says it all about this site.

Right, watching a player play 100 games is nothing compared to spreadsheets that capture the first 13 games of a sophomore defence man on a team that is currently struggling, that has played 13 games in 21 days with zero exhibition games.

Yeah, I really trust the conclusions that are being drawn here.

This is a reload year for the Canucks. We hope that our best players pick it up enough for us to make a bit of noise this year, but our window starts in two years when the 25 million that we are wasting on washed up vets comes off the books.

Comparing Makar and Hughes in a definitive way right now is asinine because:

A. He's a year older.
B. He has Girard, Toews, Byram, etc to share the load, whereas Hughes is the primary focus of every opponent.
C. He's on a team that is considerably better. Look, I put the Lotto line up against almost any line in the league, but Mackinnon/Landeskog/Rantanen (I know they aren't always together) are better. The Avs depth blows Vancouver's out of the water.

Is Hughes struggling right now? Yes. The whole team is. A bunch of kids have had the spine of the team removed (Tanev, Markstrom). They're being asked to do more for less.

A good fan of the league would be well within their rights to say, "Hey it looks like Hughes is struggling, Van fans, what's going on?"

But then they wouldn't get their sad little dopamine injections of inserting themselves into the conversation with cool hot takes like, "Hey, that 21 year old who is scoring at a literal hall of fame level for a young defence man is bad and he has never been good".

I genuinely wish it was possible to brand users with their loud opinions. I wonder if people would be a little more cautious in showing their whole ass if it was easy to look through their old takes and be like, "Oh, you thought Prucha was better than Crosby? haha, I'm not going to bother arguing".

Byram is an overrated 19 year old rookie and is this decade's Cam Barker.

Makar is an elite complementary player for a team with MacGinnon or Rantanen to make space for him.

Hughes is the franchise and the guy who makes a team go. He's the MacGinnon of the Canucks.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

He's not taking less than Chabot. If Makar signs for $9, Hughes doesn't ask for anything less than $8.5.

Chabot >>>>>>>>> Hughes.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

1 play in his literal first 10 games in his career...

Its not remotely close. Makar ran away with the Calder despite missing games and being outscored. Bring on Heiskanen arguments and soon Hedman/Josi/Jones.

 

[GetFocht]

Oh gee golly, I didn't know Hughes was so bad according to other teams fans.

Would you guys help our poor Canucks and take him on your team in a trade?

 

[aufheben]

Where are you getting the idea that he plays 3rd pairing?
View attachment 392312


And if you're going to try to justify it by ice time
View attachment 392326

Clearly evident he is not on the 3rd pairing

Wait how come no one mentioned that he’s paired with Jordie Benn?

 

[bh53]

Wait how come no one mentioned that he’s paired with Jordie Benn?

I don't know if this is a sarcastic response or not but he has been paired with Benn for the past 5/6 games and I believe a couple posters have mentioned that

 

[aufheben]

blah blah blah, got any more weak excuses?

Makar made Ryan Graves into the top plus minus player in the entire league last year at plus 40!! Ryan Graves was a nothing player before playing with Makar. In 10 games this year playing without Makar he is a minus 5!! If Makar played with Jordie Benn, he would have a career year.

Quinn Hughes was the 104th WORST plus minus player in the entire league last year playing with Chris Tanev who had to babysit him all year and now you are whining because there is not 1 decent defenseman that can do that job this year? Your golden boy is already minus 7 this year. Looks like Hughes boys both are just out for glory playin for the names on their backs. Jack Hughes was the 10th worst player in the league in plus minus last year at MINUS 20.

I am sure you will say pfffft plus minus is a nothing stat. Go ask anyone in the NHL. The stat has plenty of meaning, not in itself, but you can get some good information from it especially when comparing players on the same team. Tanev was plus 4, Stecher was plus 10 and Edler plus 13 last year. Hmmm Tanev and Stecher both gone. Coincidence? If your weak argument about a poor system by Green is used then how can half the defenseman on the same team do so much better than the other half while employing the same system? BTW 2+2=4. Maybe Edler needs a turn to babysit. I don't think they tried that yet.

I love how you say 2+2=4 while applauding a statistic that combines 5v5 goals with special teams goals that doesn’t include all goals.

If you score 10 PP goals and the other team scores 1 shorthanded goal, congrats, you’re -1 for the night.

Stat for skaters that’s directly influenced by goaltending. K

 

[aufheben]

I don't know if this is a sarcastic response or not but he has been paired with Benn for the past 5/6 games and I believe a couple posters have mentioned that

No it wasn’t sarcastic, I didn’t know that. You’ll have to forgive me for not reading every post in a thread filled with so much A+ content.

 

[bh53]

No it wasn’t sarcastic, I didn’t know that

Sorry, I thought maybe it was a sarcastic comment as most people are mentioning it.

You’ll have to forgive me for not reading every post in a thread filled with so much A+ content.

I didn't intend on critiquing you for this. Sorry if it came out that way.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

He is a dynamic offensive player. A young Tyson Barrie IMO. He will always put up points but you need to give him sheltered minutes and understand that his defensive game will always be lacking due to physical constraints. Throw him next to a prime Vlasic and youll be good to go for years. The Canucks just need to find said player to go with him.

 

[strattonius]

He is a dynamic offensive player. A young Tyson Barrie IMO. He will always put up points but you need to give him sheltered minutes and understand that his defensive game will always be lacking due to physical constraints. Throw him next to a prime Vlasic and youll be good to go for years. The Canucks just need to find said player to go with him.

Wrong. Try again.

He's well ahead of Tyson Barrie in almost every conceivable way you can compare a hockey player.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Wrong. Try again.

He's well ahead of Tyson Barrie in almost every conceivable way you can compare a hockey player.

Ok slightly better? He isnt that far ahead in points and you can argue the PP the Canucks have now is better than anything Barrie ever had to work with in COL except the final season when Rantanen/MacKinnon/Landeskog really went off. I fail to see any dramatic difference in them, unless youre arguing Quinn's pure defense is much better which obviously this season is laughable. I know its early and he can improve, but theyre nearly identical. If youre arguing that Hughes is young and will only improve, cool. But I'd argue that isnt guaranteed.

18-19 Barrie - 78GP .76 PPG -3
19-20 Hughes - 68GP .78 PPG -10

 

[strattonius]

Ok slightly better? He isnt that far ahead in points and you can argue the PP the Canucks have now is better than anything Barrie ever had to work with in COL except the final season when Rantanen/MacKinnon/Landeskog really went off. I fail to see any dramatic difference in them, unless youre arguing Quinn's pure defense is much better which obviously this season is laughable. I know its early and he can improve, but theyre nearly identical. If youre arguing that Hughes is young and will only improve, cool. But I'd argue that isnt guaranteed.

18-19 Barrie - 78GP .76 PPG -3
19-20 Hughes - 68GP .78 PPG -10

The reason Vancouver's powerplay is as good as it is is because of Hughes. He's a catalyst for offense and creativity. It's a joke that you think Barrie has anywhere near the same impact and it shows you don't want to discuss this player honestly.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

The reason Vancouver's powerplay is as good as it is is because of Hughes. He's a catalyst for offense and creativity. It's a joke that you think Barrie has anywhere near the same impact and it shows you don't want to discuss this player honestly.

I dont disagree, but Id say the same thing about Barrie. They went from Barrie to Makar so not like we can say they dropped off and Barrie was the catalyst on the PP because of that, but their stats in Barries last COL year to Hughes last season is near identical.

I think they both suck at defense, both good at offense and running a PP. Not seeing the difference.

 

[strattonius]

I dont disagree, but Id say the same thing about Barrie. They went from Barrie to Makar so not like we can say they dropped off and Barrie was the catalyst on the PP because of that, but their stats in Barries last COL year to Hughes last season is near identical.

I think they both suck at defense, both good at offense and running a PP. Not seeing the difference.

His skating is elite. Some of the best edges I've ever seen. He can spin off checks very easily and handles the puck extremely well. The guy is a break out machine. If Hughes has possession of the puck he will likely find a way to breakout of the zone effectively - these numbers can be looked up.

Tyson Barrie doesn't have nearly the same skillset. You are generalizing an offensive defenseman and saying they are the same.

If you truly don't see the difference between Barrie and Hughes you are not watching and/or blind.

 

[TonyDeAngelo]

I would never call Quinn Hughes, who helped our country win the bronze, silver, and gold, overrated.

 

[lawrence]

18-19 Barrie - 78GP .76 PPG -3

that tyson barrie had the following teammates... well.... as teammates....

Colorado Avalanche 2018-19 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

Just sayin.... if you want to say Hughes is Barrie, and if that makes you happy please say so

 

[eviohh26]

I dont disagree, but Id say the same thing about Barrie. They went from Barrie to Makar so not like we can say they dropped off and Barrie was the catalyst on the PP because of that, but their stats in Barries last COL year to Hughes last season is near identical.

I think they both suck at defense, both good at offense and running a PP. Not seeing the difference.

So we are gonna compare Barries 8th season to Hughes 1st? Legalization in Colorado really rocked some of yall.

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

Every Van-MTL games they kept saying how good he was while showing clips of him getting blown by or falling down.

He is also one of the reasons his team lost so many games vs Mtl. Us Habs fans barely saw him play last season but heard all the praise and believed the hype, only to see how much of a liability he is on the ice, even when putting up points on the board in lost causes. He is atrocious. And Myers is even worse. Maybe it's just a bad start though, how was he defensively last year ?

 

[Javaman]

I don't care about overrated. Hughes ain't what's wrong with the Canucks. Hughes will be a big part of what's right with the Canucks in the future.

The fish rots from the head down.

 

[Vancity96]

He is also one of the reasons his team lost so many games vs Mtl. Us Habs fans barely saw him play last season but heard all the praise and believed the hype, only to see how much of a liability he is on the ice, even when putting up points on the board in lost causes. He is atrocious. And Myers is even worse. Maybe it's just a bad start though, how was he defensively last year ?

He's fine defensively with his stick and on the rush. Obviously his main weakness is defending big bodies in the slot, but we should have other guys for that.

Its more so an entire defensive system that needs to be overhauled rather than a single player. We are letting way too many odd man rushes go and have no structure in the D zone which is a coaching issue.

Hughes mistakes are just noticed more than others on the team because:

A) he's on the ice much more than our other d
B) he is essentially the entire breakout when he is on the ice so he has much more puck possession
C) he's currently expected to cover for his own mistakes from A and B whereas last year he had Tanev who could recognize these situations and cover for Hughes well before any issues occur. Jordie Benn, Myers and Hamonic are essentially pylons who can't read any play so there's no way Hughes can play his game to his full potential with then on the ice with him.
D) he's flashy, and his style of play with his elite skating and stick work draws the viewers attention.

If you think Hughes is bad defensively, you could also say Petey, Horvat, Miller ,etc. Are all bad defensively too because they have the same mistakes currently with this defensive core and structure.

I could see Hughes defensive game evolve to someone like Duncan Keith's as he grows older and gains experience, and I don't think anybody thinks Keith was a bad defensive player. Even Keith needed guys like Seabrook and Hammer to carry the defensive load so he could do his thing for the Hawks.