Is NHL strictly a men's league?

[GeeoffBrown]

I'm surprised some team didn't try to draft Hayley Wickenheiser or something in the 7th round as a publicity stunt

 

[joestevens29]

I mean there have been women that played in pro men's hockey leagues, but they didn't exactly play in anything close to the NHL level.

Wickenheiser and Szabodos at their peaks tried, but they really were never even close to the NHL.

 

[Sampe from the 2000s]

I don't believe any NHL rules disallow women per se. And prior to puberty, girls can match boys in sports fairly well. The last time I checked in 2023, a girl held at least one unofficial age group world/European record in all the running distances between 40 and 300 meters, all the way up to U12 age levels. In other words, the fastest ever girl in that age group was faster than the fastest ever boy. Plus many of the greatest female hockey players of all time have played with boys until ages 12-14. But puberty treats men and women so differently that it will take an extreme talent with enough size to succeed against the best of the best adults in contact sports such as hockey.

In physical sports with less contact, women can do a bit better. They have their own advantages: greater fat stores, oxidizing fat at a higher rate, lower body mass, stronger legs in relation to muscle mass (but weaker legs in relation to body mass since men have lower body fat %), less energy consumed....it's just that men's advantages are greater still. I've also read that in long-distance swimming the sex differences are even smaller than in long-distance running. Might have something to do with buoyancy (women's higher body fat %) and drag (smaller bodies).

And then there are the accuracy/skill based sports as well as motor sports where the main hurdles to cross are cultural rather than biological. Michele Mouton for instance has shown that there's nothing stopping women from becoming rally world champions (even if she only finished a close second). While Taru Rinne used to be more than a match for future F1 world champion Mika Häkkinen in their karting days (up to age 15). Not to mention shooting sports and especially shooting at stationary targets. No biological reason for gender classes there unless the weapon itself requires upper body strength to use (e.g. bows in archery).

Overall, I think gender classes should be given roughly similar consideration to weight classes: in some sports/age groups they are absolutely needed, but otherwise it's just a matter of culture.

 

[joestevens29]

I'm surprised some team didn't try to draft Hayley Wickenheiser or something in the 7th round as a publicity stunt

I don't know that it ever even crossed a team's mind. Especially considering back then no one really cared about equality the way they do nowadays.

 

[Howie Hodge]

Even then I still wonder.

Serena Williams is a beast, and I mean that in a good way. She doesn't even play a contact sport, and even she acknowledges she's nowhere near the level of the men's players despite being an absolute unit in comparison, physically.

We saw the same thing with Rhonda Rousey. There was a point where everyone was saying she could destroy some of the men who were the same size or smaller. But that got walked back as quickly as it arrived when it became apparent than any of the men who actually knew how to fight, even despite the size difference, would have seriously hurt her.

I also find it highly unlikely, if not impossible. So our opinion is really the same.

And I base it on skating with women at the National Team level, and running with NWSL (Womens Pro Soccer) players. I had no roblem with the pace of either, and I was over 40.

 

[Spybot]

I'm surprised some team didn't try to draft Hayley Wickenheiser or something in the 7th round as a publicity stunt

I think that would be a bigger clown move than when the Charles Wang owned Islanders drafted a Chinese below ECHL level player in the 6th round. So you'd need a supremely clown franchise and it'd be a publicity stunt in the sense they'd get ridiculed for it.

 

[Captain97]

At 5'11, 172 lbs, Hilary Knight is bigger and stronger than several NHL players, such as Johnny Gaudreau. There are absolutely women that can physically handle the NHL. They just need to also possess the requisite skill to force and desire to play in the NHL. One will come along eventually.

Except height and weight aren't everything especially in a contact sport. We have different bone densities and structures, muscle isn't gained in the same areas, men are stronger per pound than women.

Brendan Gallagher at 5'8/9 180lbs used to deadlift 545lbs easily (there is video). Men tend to be stronger than women pound for pound along with being heavier. For example I'm 57% heavier than my Girlfriend but lift 5-8 times what she does depending on the muscle group.


there are definitely women stronger/more athletic than the average man, but athletes are the top .001% of men, a women ever achieving that level athletic ability is virtually impossible.

 

[JackSlater]

I wouldn't imagine that there is, in the same way that there isn't a rule that someone in their 70s can't play or any other completely unrealistic scenario. These threads always get filled with people who have a very poor understanding of biology and sports, who often then throw a fit because other people won't indulge their fantasies.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

The f*** do averages have to do with anything, and why the hell are you quoting stats from other sports where there's exactly ONE thing that people do?

We're talking about a league where Alex DeBrincat plays. He isn't even average height for a man, and he's a couple of inches shorter than Taylor Heise. Wanna talk Theo Fleury('s stats, not the stupid shit he says)?

The real reason you don't see women competing at this level is clearly demonstrated in this thread. A bunch of pisspants man-children would absolutely wet the floor if it was ever shown that any woman was better than them at anything, ever. "DEI hire!" they squeal as their not-Phil-Kessel ass shoves another hot dog down their throat.

It will be a long time before we see women in the NHL on a regular basis, but it will happen as these ass-backwards numbuts die out and are replaced by people that understand how team sports actually work.

Hahahahahahaha thanks for this

 

[WhataKnight]

Size differences are going to factor in until a girl gets into hockey early and grows to be over 6” having had the conditions of accessibility & support (or circumstance like Jagr when his dad told him, “YOU WILL PLAY HOCKEY”) naturally entering the sport with an obvious physical advantage over everyone else on the ice, with both production and physical play consistently rag dolling shit.

Also, girls right now may have more exposure to Caitlin Clark, Megan Rapinoe or Simone Biles, making Basketball, soccer/EF or gymnastics more accessible for such an athlete to hit that high a level.

Then there’s the Slovak young woman whose name I couldn’t remember, Nela Lopušanová, putting up 3 points per game.

Combine the probabilities of a girl with genetics predisposed to height having the support to pursue sports from youth immersing themselves in hockey developing hands like Nela. It’s improbable, but not impossible.

 

[K1984]

At 5'11, 172 lbs, Hilary Knight is bigger and stronger than several NHL players, such as Johnny Gaudreau. There are absolutely women that can physically handle the NHL. They just need to also possess the requisite skill to force and desire to play in the NHL. One will come along eventually.

Surprised it took this many posts for this laughable take to inevitably pop up.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

My understanding of it all is that the NHL is an open league welcome to all genders. Just that men are more dominant.

I think Serena Williams said it best. She got asked once about playing in men tournaments and she said she would get squashed.
She lost to the #200 ranked tennis player in a friendly.

She is an amazing athlete that could beat me in probably every sport and beat me up 99.09% if the time but against the best of the beat its a different story.

 

[norrisnick]

The single biggest hurdle for women in sports is the segregation in adolescence. Once you stop competing against the highest tier of peers it's hard to keep pace.

Edit - to add to the above. The best example of this is American Men's Soccer. Are American men physically incapable of being competitive at the highest stage? Something to do with anatomy? Or is it that American youth leagues don't have anywhere near the skill and depth of competition of those found in other countries and subsequently that talent isn't developed at a high enough level?

 

[Strangle]

I mean, is somewhere in the rules written, only men could play there?

No highest level professional sport is a ‘men’s league’

Women’s leagues prohibited men from playing, ‘men’s leagues’ at the highest level do not restrict anyone from playing. Its simply best on best.

The reason women’s leagues have gender rules is to make sure women and girls have a place to play. Without these rules, these leagues would all be filled with men and women wouldn’t have a place in sport.

This is the main argument against trans (MTF) athletes not being able to play in women’s leagues. It pushes biological women out of those leagues due to performance differences.

 

[tny760]

The single biggest hurdle for women in sports is the segregation in adolescence. Once you stop competing against the highest tier of peers it's hard to keep pace.

well that's certainly a take

 

[JPT]

well that's certainly a take

Yeah that take needs some pre-workout and a pair of Oakleys if it's going to compete with the men's takes.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Men's leagues are traditionally open leagues for everyone. Always have been.

Not to nitpick, but that's explicitly not true. Segregation and all that. Look elsewhere and you'll see systems in place to exclude others as well, such as the English FA not allowing English teams to transfer players from outside the UK/Ireland until the 70s and the like.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

well that's certainly a take

What's not true about NN's post? Competition drives ultimate performance. A person who has a significant competitive advantage who is "clowning" the competition very often doesn't develop as much because they don't need to evolve to dominate. This is true in everything from sporting competitions like hockey to other non-physical activities like chess.

 

[DJJones]

Not to nitpick, but that's explicitly not true. Segregation and all that. Look elsewhere and you'll see systems in place to exclude others as well, such as the English FA not allowing English teams to transfer players from outside the UK/Ireland until the 70s and the like.

That would be more for protecting other men's leagues though

Like NHL used to draft by region

 

[tny760]

What's not true about NN's post? Competition drives ultimate performance. A person who has a significant competitive advantage who is "clowning" the competition very often doesn't develop as much because they don't need to evolve to dominate. This is true in everything from sporting competitions like hockey to other non-physical activities like chess.

what's not true? nothing at the surface level, but it's a willfully ignorant take because it assumes that the "segregation" is the source to make the argument, when in all reality it's the natural pubertal changes that have driven the segregation because adolescent girls can not keep up athletically with boys' skyrocketing androgenic activity. it's f***in mechanical, they have 50% more muscle and 50% less fat when it's said and done. the impact on athletics needs no explanation.

 

[CloudYeller]

Talk about a bad take. And this isn't misogyny talking. I'm securing enough in myself to say that I've met a bunch of women who are better at my job than I am, and I'm really damn good at my job. I also know there are also women who could absolutely kick my ass. But I'm not a professional athelete.

The NHL isn't just about height/weight. Like Drake mentioned earlier - women have never played with bodychecking. IMO, it's essentially an entirely different game. You can make a case for goaltending, until you look at what it takes to be make the NHL. You'd have to be top 64 on the planet, and with the combination requirement of size, athleticism, and skating since you're a little kid, that is a huge stretch. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's HIGHLY improbable IMO.

What is different about men/women in hockey vs other sports? If anything, IMO the divide is even larger because of the more physical nature of the game compared to basketball or soccer.

IMO - there are some amazing female hockey players. Appreciate what they can do without applying your agenda to the discussion.

"Women haven't played with body checking!"

NEITHER HAD EUROPEANS, REMEMBER? That was always the knock in the 90's. "Soft Euros." Oh, they don't REALLY check in Europe.

It was just as much bullshit as this whole "No smelly wimmenfolk could evar play with men!" take.

You want to talk checking? I counter with Brett Hull's entire career (save the time he was under a Hitckcock regime). You want to talk size? I counter with Theo Fleury. Speed? Oh, honey, have you SEEN Ryan Suter? Can't miss him, because he can't move out of the way.

This trash thread is just exemplifying everything I've already said.

 

[CloudYeller]

Is that what you took from my post?

If the fastest woman ever is slower than a plethora of men, do you think suddenly one can put on a pair skates and skate on par with men? No!

If in strength competitions, women have MUCH lower entry requirements, do you think once they put on hockey equipment, that strength disparity dissipates?

Lower muscle mass(with equivalent training), lower bone density, men's muscles also have a higher fast twitch:low twitch muscle fiber ratio. The fastest, strongest woman's hockey player will still be slower and weaker than the weakest NHLer(likely AHLer as well). This has nothing to do with not wanting women in hockey, it's biology and science.

Bone density. LMFAO

The calling card of every know-nothing.

By that stupid bone density argument Black players should be in a separate league since Black men have, on average, significantly higher bone density than white men. Also, Black women should be playing against white men. And white women playing against Asian men.

"It's science!"

PHIL KESSEL. Explain that biology and science.

1 hot dog = 1 prayer?

Did you join specifically to post this?

Clearly f***ing not, but go on glazing yourself.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

At 5'11, 172 lbs, Hilary Knight is bigger and stronger than several NHL players, such as Johnny Gaudreau. There are absolutely women that can physically handle the NHL. They just need to also possess the requisite skill and desire to play in the NHL. One will come along eventually.

Do you honestly believe this?

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

what's not true? nothing at the surface level, but it's a willfully ignorant take because it assumes that the "segregation" is the source to make the argument, when in all reality it's the natural pubertal changes that have driven the segregation because adolescent women can not keep up athletically with boys' skyrocketing androgenic activity. it's f***in mechanical, they have 50% more muscle and 50% less fat when it's said and done. the impact on athletics needs no explanation.

I do agree that a physically gifted women is not able to compete based on the biology and resulting physical differences. If you talk chess instead of hockey - a gifted player will only progress so far until they're playing someone better than they are.

 

[bleachdrinker]

Out of the 4 major sports, I am guessing the NHL would be the least likely to have a female player, thinking the NFL could have a female kicker/punter.