Is Keefe the right coach for this team at this time.

[Fogelhund]

Blaming Andersen is completely fair. He's been 2nd or 3rd best goalie in every single playoff series.

So the team not scoring in front of him, had nothing to do with that? When you consistently make other goalies look good, maybe it's actually not the goalies?????

 

[hotpaws]

So the team not scoring in front of him, had nothing to do with that? When you consistently make other goalies look good, maybe it's actually not the goalies?????

and how many goals did Andy score ? yea that's right he potted exactly ZERO , so it's so it's obvious he's the sole reason we didn't beat the Mighty Jackets , lol .

 

[KyleDubasBoyGeniua]

So the team not scoring in front of him, had nothing to do with that? When you consistently make other goalies look good, maybe it's actually not the goalies?????

But they are scoring infront of him.
Andersen is allowing low quality shots the other goalie is not.

 

[Zybalto]

So the team not scoring in front of him, had nothing to do with that? When you consistently make other goalies look good, maybe it's actually not the goalies?????

This is only year that opposing goaltending was obviously the reason they lost the series.

If Vasilevsky wasnt so good for Tampa in the next round, the Jackets would have had a 3-0 series lead as Korpisalo went even deeper into God mode against the rested and hungry Bolts. Tampa had as much trouble scoring on the Jackets as the Leafs did for much of the series despite a massive edge in play.

I'd say special teams was the big factor the previous 2 series for the Leafs.

 

[X66]

yea that's it . we'll just keep making excuses to keep Dubas regardless of how the team performs

The thing is(to me at least) there is SO much more to this.

Like what if Dubas' team is another 100+ point team, and the prospects he's drafted start becoming legit players etc.

It's hard for a team to fire that.

Now if the team completely tanks next year and is fully healthy, he's fair game.

 

[X66]

So the team not scoring in front of him, had nothing to do with that? When you consistently make other goalies look good, maybe it's actually not the goalies?????

The Columbus series was the only one he didn't get the goal support, but that's mostly because of their Godly goaltending that series.

Every other series, he got the goal support.

Caps series, the Leafs scored more on them than they were giving up during the regular season. Same with the Bruins series the year after. The Bruins series after that it was right around what the Bruins were giving up.

You take that vs elite defensive teams all day IMHO.

 

[hotpaws]

The thing is(to me at least) there is SO much more to this.

Like what if Dubas' team is another 100+ point team, and the prospects he's drafted start becoming legit players etc.

It's hard for a team to fire that.

Now if the team completely tanks next year and is fully healthy, he's fair game.

the goal is to build towards a cup , if the person in charge inherits a 100 plus point team with a young core of stars like he did and all he can do is keep it roughly at the same level then he's failing regardless of whether the team drafted some legit NHLers

the fan base isn't here to make excuses for the Pres/GM /Coach or anyone else it deems to be entitled to be above having their performance evaluated , it's here to support what's best for the team

and as i said in an earlier post , while MNM have years left JT/Muzzin/Brodie probably don't and they're taking up over a 1/4 of our cap so i don't see the point of giving Dubas more than this year if they fail again since the clock's ticking on our high priced vets

 

[ACC1224]

Blaming Andersen is completely fair. He's been 2nd or 3rd best goalie in every single playoff series.

Blaming Andersen is fair, correct. Blaming only Andersen is beyond stupidity

 

[YAMAN20]

the goal is to build towards a cup , if the person in charge inherits a 100 plus point team with a young core of stars like he did and all he can do is keep it roughly at the same level then he's failing regardless of whether the team drafted some legit NHLers

the fan base isn't here to make excuses for the Pres/GM /Coach or anyone else it deems to be entitled to be above having their performance evaluated , it's here to support what's best for the team

and as i said in an earlier post , while MNM have years left JT/Muzzin/Brodie probably don't and they're taking up over a 1/4 of our cap so i don't see the point of giving Dubas more than this year if they fail again since the clock's ticking on our high priced vets

“Our” cap space. lol

 

[hotpaws]

“Our” cap space. lol

that's right boxman , our cap space . lol

forgot to ask what happened after the scratch yesterday , did you get a part payout ?

 

[Dekes For Days]

the team was i believe 1 game under .500 with Babs and 1 game over .500 the last 27 games under Keefe so yea both points i stated happened

Babcock was on a 78 point pace, and even in the most cherry picked time-frame you could find for Keefe, he was still at an 85 point pace, even with horrible goaltending and constant injuries, especially to his defense. Most of the underlying metrics maintained fairly well through all of Keefe.

Markstrom was also discussed as well as other goalies under contract

Markstrom had a better year this past year, but when looking at a bigger sample, I'm not sure you can say Markstrom is an upgrade. We don't know if he wanted to come here, and it took a 6m x 6 year investment to get him anyway, which means losing something else off the roster.

Not sure which goalies under contract you mean. I guess Kuemper was kind of thrown around, but again debatable on if he's an upgrade, and the price was reportedly quite high.

Again, you said you like Andersen, so not sure what the issue is. Good job by Dubas for keeping him, right?

 

[Dekes For Days]

When you consistently make other goalies look good, maybe it's actually not the goalies?????

Consistently? Leafs have consistently been one of the best offensive teams in the league, and in the playoffs before this year, they had scored as much or more than those teams allowed during the regular season. People just don't seem to understand that we've not only faced mostly top teams, but also mostly faced Vezina winners and the top defenses in the league.

 

[Fogelhund]

Consistently? Leafs have consistently been one of the best offensive teams in the league, and in the playoffs before this year, they had scored as much or more than those teams allowed during the regular season. People just don't seem to understand that we've not only faced mostly top teams, but also mostly faced Vezina winners and the top defenses in the league.

I'm talking about in closing games of the playoffs... the discussion was about how bad Andersen is, because he's been outperformed by other goalies, in closing games... in closing games, we've scored 1.5 goals per game. I'm suggesting, that instead of saying the opposing goalie has been great, that some of that onus must be on our scorers, who just haven't produced when needed.

Yes, you are right that we've been one of the best offensive teams...except when we've needed it most. I'm saying, they need to learn to produce when it counts the most, not just depend on a goalie to keep an opponent to a single goal against per game.

 

[X66]

Consistently? Leafs have consistently been one of the best offensive teams in the league, and in the playoffs before this year, they had scored as much or more than those teams allowed during the regular season. People just don't seem to understand that we've not only faced mostly top teams, but also mostly faced Vezina winners and the top defenses in the league.

This is the key.

Takes time for a young team to overcome these types of defensive teams etc.

 

[hotpaws]

Babcock was on a 78 point pace, and even in the most cherry picked time-frame you could find for Keefe, he was still at an 85 point pace, even with horrible goaltending and constant injuries, especially to his defense. Most of the underlying metrics maintained fairly well through all of Keefe.

Markstrom had a better year this past year, but when looking at a bigger sample, I'm not sure you can say Markstrom is an upgrade. We don't know if he wanted to come here, and it took a 6m x 6 year investment to get him anyway, which means losing something else off the roster.

Not sure which goalies under contract you mean. I guess Kuemper was kind of thrown around, but again debatable on if he's an upgrade, and the price was reportedly quite high.

Again, you said you like Andersen, so not sure what the issue is. Good job by Dubas for keeping him, right?

wtf are you talking about "the most cherry picked stats" ?

the last 27 games of the season isn't some small sample size , nor did i take different parts of the season with Keefe behind the bench to paste them together to make Keefe's numbers look worse

the season was pretty cut and dried , we had a hot 20 game stretch while the rest of the season we were a bottom feeder and both coach's had injuries and shoddy goaltending if that's what you're using to praise one coach over the other

you can spin until your head pops off but the fact remains that if this team misses the playoffs again no amount of spinning with save the Dube's job

but i know actual results don't mean anything to you , it's all about winning the x/cup , unfortunately i doubt the owners and the vast majority of fans share your point of view of what constitutes a successful season

 

[KyleDubasBoyGeniua]

This is the key.

Takes time for a young team to overcome these types of defensive teams etc.

Nevermind blow it up!

 

[hotpaws]

This is the key.

Takes time for a young team to overcome these types of defensive teams etc.

we're not a young team

 

[Fogelhund]

we're not a young team

Last year, the Leafs were the 5th youngest team in the NHL.

Elite Prospects - Team Comparison in NHL

Now it appears we are a bit older, the 13th oldest... so mid pack.

Elite Prospects - Team Comparison in NHL

 

[Dekes For Days]

I'm talking about in closing games of the playoffs... the discussion was about how bad Andersen is, because he's been outperformed by other goalies, in closing games... in closing games, we've scored 1.5 goals per game.

I don't think that's the entirety of what the discussion was about.. but for the record, in 2017, 2019, and 2020, we outshot the opposing team in the deciding game. It's not like we aren't out there generating shots and opportunities. In 2018, when we did get outshot, we still put up 4 goals... I'd like to see more scoring too, but you're missing a lot of context in that G/GP number from a tiny sample of games. These are largely top teams, top defensive teams, and Vezina winners, and Leafs have barely gotten any PPs in deciding games. You need your goalie to step up in those situations, not gift questionable goals.

 

[Fogelhund]

I don't think that's the entirety of what the discussion was about.. but for the record, in 2017, 2019, and 2020, we outshot the opposing team in the deciding game. It's not like we aren't out there generating shots and opportunities. In 2018, when we did get outshot, we still put up 4 goals... I'd like to see more scoring too, but you're missing a lot of context in that G/GP number from a tiny sample of games. These are largely top teams, top defensive teams, and Vezina winners, and Leafs have barely gotten any PPs in deciding games. You need your goalie to step up in those situations, not gift questionable goals.

I don't disagree with you... let's put it this way, the whole team, top to bottom, hasn't been good enough when it really counted. We have offensive stars, paid at elite levels in this league, who couldn't break down defenses and goalies enough. I don't care about top defensive teams, and Vezina winners, or PP opportunities... eventually, you have to make your own opportunities, have that will to win, and push through. If we want to win the Cup, we have to beat these teams, so we need more from everyone. That really has to be a theme going into this year, the year our Big three of Matthews, Marner and Nylander have to take the next level in compete... and they have in the past at other levels, and I think they can here too... They've all been MVP's of Championship teams, and lead their teams to victories...

That we haven't beaten these top defensive teams, Vezina winners.. I'm not upset about it, not mad at the players, coach or GM, that maturity takes time, but I think maybe it's been enough time, to see more from these guys now. We need a couple of rounds of playoffs here, and signs of more compete.

 

[hotpaws]

Last year, the Leafs were the 5th youngest team in the NHL.

Elite Prospects - Team Comparison in NHL

Now it appears we are a bit older, the 13th oldest... so mid pack.

Elite Prospects - Team Comparison in NHL

it seems like it's basing it on the avg of 40 players which renders it meaningless but using that stat it means we got knocked out by the youngest team in the league

we have 3 younger players we're relying on (MNM) but the rest of the team including other core pieces are not what anyone would consider to be young

age is just an excuse , many players MNM age's and younger have been key pieces to cup winning teams so there's no excuse for not at least going deep in the playoffs other than the team just isn't good enough

 

[fahad203]

Still not sold in Keefe. Can't say I liked the team's outlook when he joined. When he joined they had the easiest schedule and a healthy enough team. His records showed better than it should be

I still didn't like his structural play.

 

[TML1967]

Torts absolutely schooled Keefe in the playoffs. He is a nice guy but he is at another level. Players like to play for him....because Keefe does not crack the whip so to speak.

The leafs need a guy to push them. The talent is there handsdown to win it all. But someone needs to push them like a Torts/Keenan type coach that wont take any crap from the youngin's.

Is Keefe on a short reign if he fails in the playoffs again?

What are your thoughts?

Barry Trotz would be pretty darn interesting. He seems to find a way to get the best defensive version of his players to come out, while stifling their offensive output a bit.
Id take a strong defensive version of this team (making them well above league average), with a slight dip offensively (still one of the best) overall.

Rob Brind'Amour. He has quickly becomes a very interesting coach. I would like to get him in if we needed a change, but not a obvious improvement over Keefe yet.

 

[Dekes For Days]

wtf are you talking about "the most cherry picked stats" ? the last 27 games of the season isn't some small sample size

I said the most cherry-picked timeframe. You picked an arbitrary date (right around when all of the injuries started) to create the worst record for Keefe.

the season was pretty cut and dried , we had a hot 20 game stretch while the rest of the season we were a bottom feeder and both coach's had injuries and shoddy goaltending

The season was pretty cut and dried. We had the Babcock portion, which wasn't great. We had the Keefe portion, where we ran through the league. And then we had the massive injury and horrible goaltending portion where our record understandably dropped back a bit.

you can spin until your head pops off but the fact remains that if this team misses the playoffs again no amount of spinning with save the Dube's job

Matthews/Marner have never missed the playoffs, and there's no reason to think it will start now. There's also no reason to think that Dubas' job is in danger.

but i know actual results don't mean anything to you , it's all about winning the x/cup , unfortunately i doubt the owners and the vast majority of fans share your point of view of what constitutes a successful season

I do care about "actual results". I just also care about utilizing valuable information to properly understand those results and what they mean. That shouldn't be a controversial concept.

 

[hotpaws]

I said the most cherry-picked timeframe. You picked an arbitrary date (right around when all of the injuries started) to create the worst record for Keefe.

The season was pretty cut and dried. We had the Babcock portion, which wasn't great. We had the Keefe portion, where we ran through the league. And then we had the massive injury and horrible goaltending portion where our record understandably dropped back a bit.

Matthews/Marner have never missed the playoffs, and there's no reason to think it will start now. There's also no reason to think that Dubas' job is in danger.

I do care about "actual results". I just also care about utilizing valuable information to properly understand those results and what they mean. That shouldn't be a controversial concept.

keep the spin going but as has been explained to you by a number of posters we did miss the playoffs this year because we lost in the PLAY-IN round so that means we missed the playoffs

based on your interpretation you could also say no team ever misses playoffs because the regular season is basically a play-in round to see who qualifies for the playoffs

and it's obvious you ignore actual results based on how you keep implying based on your ''context'' how we had a successful season this year , lol