Is Keefe the right coach for this team at this time.

[KyleDubasBoyGeniua]

Our fourth line played better than our third line clifford wasn't the problem

No one said he was. the issue is he would be more of a problem with a larger role.

 

[KyleDubasBoyGeniua]

Do people on here really want LIndy Ruff or Marc Crawford instead of Keefe? Enoigh of the old boys recyling of coaches. Leafs have already done that a lot and it worked with Quinm not anyone else.

100% you were losing Keefe soon enough. It was his time.

And I am not seeing how Babcock was a big master at how he handled things at all with players.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The coach that "outcoaches" another coach is the winner of a game or a series.

That's not true at all. There is way more that impacts a series other than coaching...

 

[egd27]

"Laid an egg" is egregious and, quite frankly, incorrect. Game 1 was a 50/50 toss up. The Leafs' skaters were much better than Columbus in Game 5, as they were in most of the series.

No matter how you split it up, even with our cold offense, we should have won 3/5 of those games (Game 2, 3, and 5), and we could have easily won Game 1 as well.

Tortorella did not outcoach Keefe at all. He just had a lot of things go his way, and barely squeaked through a series against us.

I didn't say Torts outcoached Keefe, I said Keefe didn't prepare, and have the team execute, a game plan to counteract CBJ's tactics.

Hell, one of their $11M players admitted to not being engaged in Game 1 and they were extremely lucky there even was a Game 5.

"we should have won 3/5 of those games" - yea, where have I heard that before?

 

[X66]

I didn't say Torts outcoached Keefe, I said Keefe didn't prepare, and have the team execute, a game plan to counteract CBJ's tactics.

Hell, one of their $11M players admitted to not being engaged in Game 1 and they were extremely lucky there even was a Game 5.

"we should have won 3/5 of those games" - yea, where have I heard that before?

The Leafs took it to Columbus better than most teams did all year, when you look at how Columbus kept teams out all year they were way less effective there against the Leafs.

This is how well Columbus kept out teams during the regular season

This is where the Leafs were able to penetrate during the series

They broke through so I'd say Keefe had them playing right; but again I don't know how many times it needs to be stated, Andersen needed to stop those low danger shots. You simply cannot give one of the best teams in the league soft goals.

 

[ToneDog]

The Leafs took it to Columbus better than most teams did all year, when you look at how Columbus kept teams out all year they were way less effective there against the Leafs.

This is how well Columbus kept out teams during the regular season

View attachment 378050

This is where the Leafs were able to penetrate during the series

View attachment 378051

They broke through so I'd say Keefe had them playing right; but again I don't know how many times it needs to be stated, Andersen needed to stop those low danger shots. You simply cannot give one of the best teams in the league soft goals.

CBJ ?? Really?? Once they announced the Leafs would be playing CBJ in the "play-ins" many posters thought Leafs would easily roll them. I posted (and you can look it up) that CBJ would be a tough matchup but to call them one of the best teams in the league is a stretch IMO.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I posted (and you can look it up) that CBJ would be a tough matchup but to call them one of the best teams in the league is a stretch IMO.

I assume he meant to say defensive teams. Columbus was the best defensive team in the league last year, and we actually broke through that very well in the playoff series to generate opportunities.

 

[LeafGrief]

I think Keefe is fine.

Now, if he becomes our new Paul Maurice and somehow never goes away (I'm talking Jets here) despite how meh he might turn out, then I will say differently.

I have no objections about him yet.

My thoughts exactly. I just don't think we have anywhere near enough data on him to judge properly yet.

The Leafs took it to Columbus better than most teams did all year, when you look at how Columbus kept teams out all year they were way less effective there against the Leafs.

This is how well Columbus kept out teams during the regular season

View attachment 378050

This is where the Leafs were able to penetrate during the series

View attachment 378051

They broke through so I'd say Keefe had them playing right; but again I don't know how many times it needs to be stated, Andersen needed to stop those low danger shots. You simply cannot give one of the best teams in the league soft goals.

This post was perfect until the last sentence. One of the best teams in the league??? Come on.

Great post!

 

[X66]

CBJ ?? Really?? Once they announced the Leafs would be playing CBJ in the "play-ins" many posters thought Leafs would easily roll them. I posted (and you can look it up) that CBJ would be a tough matchup but to call them one of the best teams in the league is a stretch IMO.

My thoughts exactly. I just don't think we have anywhere near enough data on him to judge properly yet.

This post was perfect until the last sentence. One of the best teams in the league??? Come on.

That was my error, meant to say one of the best DEFENSIVE teams.

 

[egd27]

The Leafs took it to Columbus better than most teams did all year, when you look at how Columbus kept teams out all year they were way less effective there against the Leafs.

This is how well Columbus kept out teams during the regular season

View attachment 378050

This is where the Leafs were able to penetrate during the series

View attachment 378051

They broke through so I'd say Keefe had them playing right; but again I don't know how many times it needs to be stated, Andersen needed to stop those low danger shots. You simply cannot give one of the best teams in the league soft goals.

Cool...they can raise the 2020 Heat Map and the XGF banners together once fans are back in the seats.

 

[X66]

Cool...they can raise the 2020 Heat Map and the XGF banners together once fans are back in the seats.

If you don't understand them, it's okay to say so.

I know it takes a level of critical thinking that hockey fans aren't used to.

 

[Bomber0104]

Cool...they can raise the 2020 Heat Map and the XGF banners together once fans are back in the seats.

If taking refuge in useless blog stats takes the pain away of losing to the Columbus Blue Jackets in a play-in series to qualify for the playoffs, I say let them have it.

There hasn't been much to celebrate with the Leafs these days so let's celebrate how they were "expected" to win, all thanks to the fine folks at naturalstattrick.com.

 

[egd27]

If you don't understand them, it's okay to say so.

I know it takes a level of critical thinking that hockey fans aren't used to.

Like Bomber said.....if it takes the pain away of losing to the Columbus Blue Jackets in a play-in series to qualify for the playoffs, enjoy your rationalizations.

Truth be told, I expected them to win as well........until Game 3 at least.

 

[KyleDubasBoyGeniua]

Cool...they can raise the 2020 Heat Map and the XGF banners together once fans are back in the seats.

And all the teams that "won rounds" instead of the Leafs can hold parades.

 

[egd27]

And all the teams that "won rounds" instead of the Leafs can hold parades.

Well if they won 2, I suppose they could celebrate being Divisional Champs rather than celebrating Heat Maps and X stats.

 

[X66]

If taking refuge in useless blog stats takes the pain away of losing to the Columbus Blue Jackets in a play-in series to qualify for the playoffs, I say let them have it.

There hasn't been much to celebrate with the Leafs these days so let's celebrate how they were "expected" to win, all thanks to the fine folks at naturalstattrick.com.

Like Bomber said.....if it takes the pain away of losing to the Columbus Blue Jackets in a play-in series to qualify for the playoffs, enjoy your rationalizations.

Truth be told, I expected them to win as well........until Game 3 at least.

In actuality, it's the rationale fan that really doesn't have 'pain' from these types of things because we understand context.

It's the irrational fan, the one that is devoid of logic that gets the most worked up over these things with their hot-takes and inability to learn.

But this isn't unique to sports, the humane will always have this dance with the barbaric.

 

[KyleDubasBoyGeniua]

Well if they won 2, I suppose they could celebrate being Divisional Champs rather than celebrating Heat Maps and X stats.

I think so, who knew winning a first round series is viewed as like winning the cup.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Oh so you don't care about the Leafs winning and only care about the "context"

With context comes more accurate insight, to draw more accurate conclusions, which allows for better and more impactful solutions to address areas of concern, which leads to successful teams and a higher chance of winning the cup. I'm not really sure what arbitrarily claiming that everything sucks because we didn't win gets anybody.

 

[NinjaKick]

the fact of the matter is that Keefe is our coach and as Leaf fans we should all support him... I hope no one wants to see this team fail to prove a point...
that said if we don't come out this new season with a fire lit under our butts... I'll be the firsst person to criticize Dubas and Keefe

 

[hobarth]

The Leafs occasionally set up a super-line last year and did so in the playoffs as well. Here are the stats when Auston Matthews and John Tavaers played together last season: 58% puck possession, 61% of the shots, and an absolutely ridiculous 64% expected-goals. (All stats naturalstattrick.com).
Even crazier, they outscored the opposition 8-1 in just under 90 minutes, which is 89% of the total goals. You can’t ignore domination like that. With the deep roster the Leafs have, it would be foolish not to do it.

Toronto Maple Leafs Have to Load Up Top Line

I think Keefe should continue loading up a super line thru more of a season so that line would be even better prepared for the playoffs and TO can possibly construct two dominant lines.

Nylander/Matthews/Marner

with a d pairing of Rielly and Lehtonen, they could defend via possession and score, score, score...

Another line would be

Robertson/JT/Hyman

being backed up by Muzzin and Brodie, they can defend when/if needed, they can score if Robertson delivers.

Babs didn't like the best eggs in one basket which was fine during the regular season but results in the regular season isn't enough any more.

 

[thusk]

1-Sheldon Keefe came during season and for those kind of playoff, team get 2 week to get ready to play playoff caliber game, so i don't think any team in the NHL was really ready to play playoff game!nn

2- Toronto had one of the worst defence of NHL and they lost his best detensive dman after 2 and didn't have any other choice than put Marincin on the ice. You will rarely win during playoff with that kind of defence whatever the strategy you will use. So it's not about coaching.

With add of brodie, bogosian and lehtonen, for the first time since 2003, Toronto have weapon to win playoff series!

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

The Leafs took it to Columbus better than most teams did all year, when you look at how Columbus kept teams out all year they were way less effective there against the Leafs.

This is how well Columbus kept out teams during the regular season

View attachment 378050

This is where the Leafs were able to penetrate during the series

View attachment 378051

They broke through so I'd say Keefe had them playing right; but again I don't know how many times it needs to be stated, Andersen needed to stop those low danger shots. You simply cannot give one of the best teams in the league soft goals.

Yea crazy what .960 SV% goaltending can do to distort peoples views of the entire series. Leafs dominated 5 on 5 play against one of the better defensive teams in the league and had a ridiculously low shooting percentage in high danger areas.

 

[Zybalto]

Reposting some older stuff I wrote here but some need some reminding of the season under Keefe:

Taking into consideration both traditional and advanced stats and looking at the numbers under Keefe (which is what we all should do considering we are moving forward with him).

Record:
27-15-5
Points%: .628 (8th in the NHL)

Offence:
5v5 Corsi for/60: 4th highest in the league
5v5 Shots for/60: 5th highest in the league
5v5 expected goals for/60: 2nd highest in the league
5v5 goals for/60: 5th highest in the league

All Situations Corsi for/60: 7th highest in the league
All Situations Shots for/60: 5th highest in the league
All Situations expected goals for/60: 3rd highest in the league
All Situations goals for/60: 1st in the league


Defence:
5v5 Corsi Against/60: 13th lowest in the league
5v5 Shots Against/60: 14th lowest in the league
5v5 expected goals against/60: 14th lowest in the league
5v5 goals against/60: 24th lowest in the league

All Situations Corsi Against/60: 16th lowest in the league
All Situations Shots Against/60: 17th lowest in the league
All Situations expected goals against/60: 10th lowest in the league
All Situations goals against/60: 17th lowest in the league


Combined:
5v5 CF%: 7th in the league
5v5 SF%: 10th in the league
5v5 : xGF%: 5th in the league
5v5 GF%: 12th in the league

All Situations CF%: 9th in the league
All Situations SF%: 11th in the league
All Situations xGF%: 4th in the league
All Situations GF%: 6th in the league


Goaltending:
5v5 save %: 27th best in the league
All Situations save %: 20th best in the league


Top 5 offence with, at worst, average D numbers plagued by below average goaltending, especially 5v5 where it ranked bottom 5.

I think we should all be expecting a bounce back year for goaltending with the stability at the backup position although Andersen having his worst year in the NHL brings new questions (including how the hell he made the all-star team this year).

It's actually a testament to how good this team is that they had the 8th best record in the NHL during this time despite the bad goalkeeping and injury issues. Since all teams have to deal with injuries, lets put that aside but losing half your D core during this stretch but still posting the best defensive numbers in years is a very promising sign none the less. Everything has to come together at the same time in the playoffs of course and I feel this team is in the position to contend every year for the next half decade.



Some have speculated that the team "fell back to earth" the second part of Keefes tenure but what really happened was that we lost Morgan Rielly to a broken foot at the same time we were already having to deal with Muzzin out of the lineup. With the weak depth the team already had on D, the team became very inconsistant.



Here are the numbers the first 24 games under Keefe before Rielly went down and the 23 games after:

Record:
16-6-2
Points%: .708 (4th in the NHL)


Offence:
5v5 Corsi for/60: 3rd highest in the league
5v5 Shots for/60: 3rd highest in the league
5v5 expected goals for/60: 1st in the league
5v5 goals for/60: 1st in the league

All Situations Corsi for/60: 8th highest in the league
All Situations Shots for/60: 3rd highest in the league
All Situations expected goals for/60: 2nd highest in the league
All Situations goals for/60: 1st in the league


Defence:
5v5 Corsi Against/60: 11th lowest in the league
5v5 Shots Against/60: 16th lowest in the league
5v5 expected goals against/60: 12th lowest in the league
5v5 goals against/60: 22nd lowest in the league

All Situations Corsi Against/60: 18th lowest in the league
All Situations Shots Against/60: 18th lowest in the league
All Situations expected goals against/60: 7th lowest in the league
All Situations goals against/60: 18th lowest in the league


Combined:
5v5 CF%: 7th in the league
5v5 SF%: 9th in the league
5v5 : xGF%: 3rd in the league
5v5 GF%: 6th in the league

All Situations CF%: 9th in the league
All Situations SF%: 8th in the league
All Situations xGF%: 3rd in the league
All Situations GF%: 3rd in the league

Goaltending:
5v5 save %: 21st best in the league
All Situations save %: 18th best in the league


Final 23 games:

Record:

11-9-3 (3 of their wins were against the cup finalists 2xTB and 1xStars)
Points%: .543 (17th in the NHL)

This period was probably the worst time for injuries with both Rielly and Muzzin (our top 2 D) down with injury and then losing Ceci as well.

Offence:
5v5 Corsi for/60: 17th highest in the league
5v5 Shots for/60: 21st highest in the league
5v5 expected goals for/60: 6th highest in the league
5v5 goals for/60: 20th highest in the league

All Situations Corsi for/60: 15th highest in the league
All Situations Shots for/60: 18th highest in the league
All Situations expected goals for/60: 6th highest in the league
All Situations goals for/60: 16th in the league


Defence:
5v5 Corsi Against/60: 16th lowest in the league
5v5 Shots Against/60: 10th lowest in the league
5v5 expected goals against/60: 13th lowest in the league
5v5 goals against/60: 22nd lowest in the league

All Situations Corsi Against/60: 16th lowest in the league
All Situations Shots Against/60: 12th lowest in the league
All Situations expected goals against/60: 10th lowest in the league
All Situations goals against/60: 18th lowest in the league


Combined:
5v5 CF%: 13th in the league
5v5 SF%: 14th in the league
5v5 : xGF%: 12th in the league
5v5 GF%: 23rd in the league

All Situations CF%: 13th in the league
All Situations SF%: 13th in the league
All Situations xGF%: 7th in the league
All Situations GF%: 17th in the league

Goaltending:
5v5 save %: 26th best in the league
All Situations save %: 20th best in the league

The Defence looks like it held up its solid play the final 23 which is the mark of an excellent system put in by Keefe but no Muzzin and especially no Rielly really hurt the Leafs offence IMO.

Goaltending, of course, was still the massive issue.

 

[kk87]

So many bad narratives around this team coming out of last season. Fact of the matter: Keefe came into a dysfunctional locker room as the new coach of a struggling team and led the team to a 100+ point pace (pro-rated) - all the while getting atrocious goaltending and riding a brutal PDO. Inconsistency and leadership are still definitely question marks with this team, but the majority of problems we saw after the coaching change were a product of shocking levels of poor goaltending for over half the season.

 

[hotpaws]

So many bad narratives around this team coming out of last season. Fact of the matter: Keene came into a dysfunctional locker room as the new coach of a struggling team and led the team to a 100+ point pace (pro-rated) - all the while getting atrocious goaltending and riding a brutal PDO. Inconsistency and leadership are still definitely question marks with this team, but the majority of problems we saw after the coaching change were a product of shocking levels of poor goaltending for over half the season.

so why did Dubas keep Anderson but turn over so much of the roster if the problem was ''shockingly poor goaltending'' ?