Is it time for a rebuild ?

[Louie the Blue]

We’re about to enter purgatory given the upcoming cap hits and the cap only going up by $1 mil. unless some players are moved.

 

[Mike Liut]

I love ROR, but I’m not re-signing him. I’d rather have a 1st + good prospect.

 

[jmwc95]

I love ROR, but I’m not re-signing him. I’d rather have a 1st + good prospect.

If he comes back, he can pull a Weight/Tkachuk and resign here as a UFA for a discount price after we rent him out at the deadline.

 

[Mike Liut]

If he comes back, he can pull a Weight/Tkachuk and resign here as a UFA for a discount price after we rent him out at the deadline.

I wouldn’t go more than 3x6 for him

 

[Thallis]

We’re about to enter purgatory given the upcoming cap hits and the cap only going up by $1 mil. unless some players are moved.

I thought we might be in better position but ROR and Tarasenko being gone are almost entirely taken up by the Thomas Kyrou extensions. We're in trouble lol

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I thought we might be in better position but ROR and Tarasenko being gone are almost entirely taken up by the Thomas Kyrou extensions. We're in trouble lol

Only for next year. Then Scandella comes off and cap starts rising by about 4mm per year.

 

[Louie the Blue]

Only for next year. Then Scandella comes off and cap starts rising by about 4mm per year.

They still have to find replacements for ROR/Tarasenko and have to decide on what to do with them.

They don’t have any internal options that can easily replace either. Not a lot of $ to throw around to address that problem either. Best bet is to trade them barring Armstrong pulling a miracle moving Krug or Schenn to clear room for ROR (which I’m fine with extending).

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

They still have to find replacements for ROR/Tarasenko and have to decide on what to do with them.

They don’t have any internal options that can easily replace either. Not a lot of $ to throw around to address that problem either. Best bet is to trade them barring Armstrong pulling a miracle moving Krug or Schenn to clear room for ROR (which I’m fine with extending).

Yes, I would think best option is deal ROR and Tank and phase in top prospects to replace them. In couple years we will have $ to supplement. But I would expect that top line guys need to be internal adds.

 

[jmwc95]

I wouldn’t go more than 3x6 for him

Agreed. I think he’s the type of player that would take less to play here and I don’t think teams will be lining up to pay a 32 year old coming off a 40 point season at -20 more than that.

 

[cmcalum]

Agreed. I think he’s the type of player that would take less to play here and I don’t think teams will be lining up to pay a 32 year old coming off a 40 point season at -20 more than that.

Just don’t agree with this and his history does not suggest he gives a hometown discount. This is his last contract please give me any reason why he would play for us at less money than he can get on another team. Sorry just don’t buy it. This team is not winning the Stanley Cup this year. Time to move on and sell our UFA’s at the deadline. I have loved watching Tarasenko and ROR for their careers but all players get old and we cannot afford more boat anchor contracts. We already have enough. We are goin to have to live with Kyrou and Thomas leading this team going forward and for the last few games they have been our best players. We are going to live or die with how well they perform for the next few years.

 

[BlueSeal]

Cancel any ideas or hopes of a rebuild. It won't happen. We will retool for the foreseeable future. Right now we might have started turning the corner. Expect to see a certain 2-0 Tuna Boat sailing about tomorrow as we go Orca Hunting. JT Miller be damned!

 

[TruBlu]

Cancel any ideas or hopes of a rebuild. It won't happen. We will retool for the foreseeable future. Right now we might have started turning the corner. Expect to see a certain 2-0 Tuna Boat sailing about tomorrow as we go Orca Hunting. JT Miller be damned!

We haven't turned a corner. We're still, for the most part, giving up 4 goals per game. Although the team seems to do a better job with Greiss in net (not surprised). As long as you're giving up that many goals on a consistent basis you're not going anywhere. Keep in mind that the teams we've been winning against aren't exactly top tier teams. We're on a worse pace than back in 2018 when we traded Stastny. At this pace I can see us being mathematically eliminated in mid February; long before the TDL. Armstrong isn't going to mortgage the next 5 years (and his career) just to try and make one round of the playoffs this year. Not getting anything for two star players about to walk off your roster for good is a sure way to get fired.

 

[BlueSeal]

We haven't turned a corner. We're still, for the most part, giving up 4 goals per game. Although the team seems to do a better job with Greiss in net (not surprised). As long as you're giving up that many goals on a consistent basis you're not going anywhere. Keep in mind that the teams we've been winning against aren't exactly top tier teams. We're on a worse pace than back in 2018 when we traded Stastny. At this pace I can see us being mathematically eliminated in mid February; long before the TDL. Armstrong isn't going to mortgage the next 5 years (and his career) just to try and make one round of the playoffs this year. Not getting anything for two star players about to walk off your roster for good is a sure way to get fired.

With the contracts we have, the next five years are locked in. We will always make moves but we’ve been here before and we will be ok.

 

[Louie the Blue]

With the contracts we have, the next five years are locked in. We will always make moves but we’ve been here before and we will be ok.

They haven’t been here before, though, under Armstrong.

Binnington makes more and is locked in longer than Allen was. Schenn’s contract will be an albatross. That’s not mentioning the contracts on defense either.

2016-2017 and 2017-2018 didn’t have THAT many contracts at that price for players 30+ for that long.

Tarasenko at the very least should be traded as well as Barbashev. I’m fine with keeping ROR if he wants to stay here 4-5 years.

 

[jjniner]

Can ROR re-sign with us if we trade him. For some reason I thought they put a rule in against that. Trade him for prospects and picks with the wink..wink promise of re-signing him for 3 and 15,000,000.

if allowed

 

[Reality Czech]

ROR hits 1000+ games played this season, and has significantly slowed down over the past year and a half.
I just dont see Army shelling out the money and/or term its going to take to resign a 32 year old center with 1000+ games. You essentially have a third line center in Schenn tied up at 6.5 AAV and a 1st line center in Thomas. Blues need to get younger in the top 6.
At the same time, its all speculation about Tarasenko. The last thing you heard directly from Vlad was 18 months ago.
Ideally you move on from ROR, resign Tarasenko, and move out Krug and or CP.

However as long as getting into the playoffs is attainable, I dont see the Blues moving any players as the playoff money is instrumental to the finances of this organization.

At a 63 point pace, I would argue Schenn's production is closer to that of a second line center than a third. He's probably a bit better offensively than ROR though he's of course much worse defensively. Schenn seems to be maintaining his form better than ROR as well, although ROR is a well known slow starter who gets better as the season goes on. I could see them justify letting ROR go because they already have two top 6 caliber centers.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

At a 63 point pace, I would argue Schenn's production is closer to that of a second line center than a third. He's probably a bit better offensively than ROR though he's of course much worse defensively. Schenn seems to be maintaining his form better than ROR as well, although ROR is a well known slow starter who gets better as the season goes on. I could see them justify letting ROR go because they already have two top 6 caliber centers.

That's a reason I'm not super worried about Schenn and his contract for at least the next two years. He's been on pace for 55 points or more every year since 2015-16. And it's on pace for 63 points. Schenn is very very Consistent points wise.

 

[tfriede2]

Can ROR re-sign with us if we trade him. For some reason I thought they put a rule in against that. Trade him for prospects and picks with the wink..wink promise of re-signing him for 3 and 15,000,000.

if allowed

There’s no rule against it - I can’t imagine the NHLPA would ever allow a rule like that, either (since it inhibits a player’s option to sign where he pleases).

 

[Brockon]

Can ROR re-sign with us if we trade him. For some reason I thought they put a rule in against that. Trade him for prospects and picks with the wink..wink promise of re-signing him for 3 and 15,000,000.

if allowed

There's been a handful of players who have done that in the past. Polak, Michalek, Vermette and Vanek etc all did it in the mid 2010s.

I don't recall any discussion about it being changed in the CBA to prevent this from happening. It's why many deals include conditional picks based on a player re-signing with the team they were traded to.

Handshake deals behind the doors can't be proven. So if DA wanted to risk ROR deciding he wanted to stay with a contender because he enjoyed winning as opposed to the ups and downs here - there's no reason he couldn't be traded for a 1st+ and then come back to STL in July via free agency.

 

[Xerloris]

Can ROR re-sign with us if we trade him. For some reason I thought they put a rule in against that. Trade him for prospects and picks with the wink..wink promise of re-signing him for 3 and 15,000,000.

if allowed

I believe what you're thinking of is if we trade him for the other team to buy him out and then signing with us again.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

There's been a handful of players who have done that in the past. Polak, Michalek, Vermette and Vanek etc all did it in the mid 2010s.

I don't recall any discussion about it being changed in the CBA to prevent this from happening. It's why many deals include conditional picks based on a player re-signing with the team they were traded to.

Handshake deals behind the doors can't be proven. So if DA wanted to risk ROR deciding he wanted to stay with a contender because he enjoyed winning as opposed to the ups and downs here - there's no reason he couldn't be traded for a 1st+ and then come back to STL in July via free agency.

Didn’t Weight and Tkachuk both do that with St Louis too?

 

[Brockon]

Didn’t Weight and Tkachuk both do that with St Louis too?

Tkachuk did going back to 2008.

I was digging up more recent examples with the couple I named being in the 2014-2017 range.

 

[Mike Liut]

If we keep winning, Army is going to be a buyer

 

[BrokenFace]

If he comes back, he can pull a Weight/Tkachuk and resign here as a UFA for a discount price after we rent him out at the deadline.

If the rumors about some of our veterans being upset about Kyrou's contract were true, and if RoR was one of those vets, no chance he takes a discount anywhere.

 

[BrokenFace]

In looking at our Cap Friendly page, I see we don't have attractive pending UFAs to trade these next couple of seasons after this one. Obviously we have the big names this year who could get us some wothwhile futures but the only big name pending UFA we'll have at the next two TDLs will be Buchnevich in 2024-25, whom we might want to extend at that point anyway.

All the more reason Army needs to focus on futures this TDL. We aren't winning with this team as constructed. If he truly wants to contend again without gonig through a tear-it-down rebuild, he needs to acquire picks/prospects/young NHLers this TDL. Hopefully the overall cap situation and the amount of teams that will be sellers this year don't stop us from getting the most out of our UFAs this TDL. I'll be ecstatic if we get reports out of Chicago that Kane and Toews don't want to be traded.