Is it time for a Canadian only professional hockey league?

[Postulates]

I mean sure, it could've been. Chiarelli gave him a blank cheque, thankfully McDavid picked something semi-reasonable.

But he's not going to stick around once his contract's up.

Ever notice how the generational talents don't go to Canada if they're not drafted up there? Crosby and Ovi are quite happy where they are.

Ovechkin is clearly a government spy for Russia

 

[Goose]

How about a league of Toronto boroughs so whoever wins the cup it’s always in Toronto and championship parades can be held every year and Toronto fans can rightly claim they have the most glorious franchise(s) in all of sports.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Ovechkin is clearly a government spy for Russia

Man, I hope I've got the right reference here:

This Is SportsCenter: Alex Ovechkin - ESPN Video

Alex Ovechkin does some late night filing at ESPN.

www.espn.com.au

He and Varly look so young in this.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I don't see anything wrong with OP's suggestion. A Canadian-based minor league. Sure, go for it. Why not?

 

[WarriorofTime]

The better example would be looking at MLS compared to the English Premier League. Your argument is just silly and isn't based on a comparable situation.

CFL talent is way above college football despite "very low salaries" so even that isn't a great example. I've never seen a CFL fan complain about the talent, it's more the opposite. People just super annoyed people who don't watch college football think it's totally legit and the CFL is not.

As I said a C league could probably afford 2-3 middle six players, you'd have a steep drop off in talent after that, but it's just silly to think they'd be playing at a junior or even AHL level.

$40 million a year in revenue I'd argue is achievable in a market like London or Halifax. Imagine if Kadri was playing in London(before his break out season priced him out).

Neither of your examples make a lick of sense.

The soccer ecosystem is completely different to that of hockey. The EPL is great but it's not the case that every player in the world will play in the EPL, for any EPL team regardless of quality, over any other league... all else being equal. A sport like Hockey has one dominant league that trumps all leagues and draws in all of the best players in the world. Any other league is clearly inferior, even if the occasional Russian guy plays in the KHL. Canada and the United States share a border, top Canadians are never going to opt to play an inferior league. The franchises in Toronto and Montreal will never leave the NHL, and if they had teams in this breakaway league it would draw a fraction of the attention and budget. This league would be a small step ahead of the Canadian Elite Basketball League.

The CFL is a professional league and NCAA Football is an amateur league that feeds into the NFL, so that's a completely irrelevant comparison. The ECHL is a higher quality of play than the OHL, but the OHL is still popular in many places.

 

[Postulates]

and there's some College Hockey teams in the US that have a higher arena capacity than the Jets

Its only Ohio State (college basketball arena but the upper sections are tarped off for hockey games) and almost Wisconsin (100 less than the Jets capacity)

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I don't see anything wrong with OP's suggestion. A Canadian-based minor league. Sure, go for it. Why not?

Doesn't that already exist?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Doesn't that already exist?

LNAH?

 

[thefutures]

One thing is for sure. Hockey has the dumbest base

 

[tarheelhockey]

Doesn't that already exist?

Not in the pro leagues, I don't think. The AHL has some Canadian franchises but that's all that I'm aware of in Canada nowadays.

Part of the issue is that, much like in the USA with college sports, the decent-sized small Canadian cities are very invested in junior hockey. That makes minor league pro games a tough sell. If you're in Regina, $30 gets you Connor Bedard. What is a minor league team going to offer which would beat that? Realistically the only way for them to compete would be with cartoonish violence, which is exactly what the minor leagues did for a long time.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

LNAH?

At first I thought you were telling me "no" in a french Pepe Le Pew sort of way.

 

[Lady Stanley]

Neither of your examples make a lick of sense

sure bud

The CFL is a professional league and NCAA Football is an amateur league that feeds into the NFL, so that's a completely irrelevant comparison. The ECHL is a higher quality of play than the OHL, but the OHL is still popular in many places.

The CFL is almost exactly comparable, except Canadian football is literally not played in the Eastern half of the country. Like you can't find 3 down football unless you look for it.

The soccer ecosystem is completely different to that of hockey. The EPL is great but it's not the case that every player in the world will play in the EPL,

That has nothing to do with whether or not minor league talent MLS is popular.

Or why teams that are minor league equivalents throughout Europe make money.

There's literally 100s of teams in Europe and the vast majority will never ever have a world cup winner on their team and yet the sport thrives.

for any EPL team regardless of quality, over any other league... all else being equal. A sport like Hockey has one dominant league that trumps all leagues and draws in all of the best players in the world.

And NFL football is clearly above NCAA, by leaps and bounds.

Again this "I'm a talent purist" is something 90% of fans don't care about, 9% percent to care about and 1% actually care.

Any other league is clearly inferior, even if the occasional Russian guy plays in the KHL.

Canada and the United States share a border, top Canadians are never going to opt to play an inferior league.

Unless they don't like their NHL options. I.e. not wanting to play on the 3rd line in St Louis. Not wanting to move your family(i.e. your wife threatening to leave you if you don't take the local option). Or you know simply getting more money to play on the first line.

Then there's the kids not yet ready for the NHL and veterans who would rather make 2 milion a year at home playing 60 games and still being a super star, versus making 1 million in the nhl playing 82 games on the 4th line.

I'd way rather watch a winning team with lessor talent than a talented team get hummilated.

The franchises in Toronto and Montreal will never leave the NHL, and if they had teams in this breakaway league it would draw a fraction of the attention and budget.

Ignoring that there's a bottle neck on the number of seats, making less money still means they make a whole lot of money.

This league would be a small step ahead of the Canadian Elite Basketball League.

It's be a substantial step above the CFL. It's reasonable to assume you could build up a roster of 20-30 million worth of players. Basically a top line would be on par with a 3rd line in the NHL. I watch 3rd lines play as much as I watch the 4th.

 

[Lady Stanley]

Not in the pro leagues, I don't think. The AHL has some Canadian franchises but that's all that I'm aware of in Canada nowadays.

Part of the issue is that, much like in the USA with college sports, the decent-sized small Canadian cities are very invested in junior hockey. That makes minor league pro games a tough sell. If you're in Regina, $30 gets you Connor Bedard. What is a minor league team going to offer which would beat that? Realistically the only way for them to compete would be with cartoonish violence, which is exactly what the minor leagues did for a long time.

The best shortcut is as I said making it senior major junior hockey, you promote top junior teams to the big league. The appeal is hiring up all the best talent from your previous years rosters who aren't playing in the NHL.

20 million at the gate is possible in London and 10-20 million is totally possible as a tv contract value. Plus merch.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

This video breaks down the 30 year drought for each team.



If you skip ahead to the last few minutes where he reaches the conclusion, you realize the drought has reached 30 years because half the Canadian teams each year are near the bottom of the standings. The other half have flawed rosters that almost always get bounced in the 1st or 2nd round.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Then there's the kids not yet ready for the NHL and veterans who would rather make 2 milion a year at home playing 60 games and still being a super star, versus making 1 million in the nhl playing 82 games on the 4th line.

lol, nobody is making $2 million a year in your SPHL equivalent league. Total pipe dream. I'm really not sure if you understand the economics of pro sports at all. Your comparisons to soccer are completely off base to the point that I genuinely don't think you know what you're talking about.

What you are proposing is a very minor league, it will draw very minor talent and sell tickets for a very minor price in very minor arenas. Such a league can exist, but you are living in fantasy land if you think players will leave 3rd line jobs or that spouses will threaten to dump their family to go play in this league. Canadian franchises exist in the NHL in all of Canada's largest cities. They will continue to exist, and those teams will continue to draw all of the local attention, corporate sponsorships and media coverage.

 

[Lady Stanley]

lol, nobody is making $2 million a year in your SPHL equivalent league. Total pipe dream. I'm really not sure if you understand the economics of pro sports at all.

Have you even been to a market like London? Halifax? Kitchener? Victoria? Hamilton? Quebec City?

Top CHL teams are worth roughly 50 million a piece, it's very reasonable a person with money would be willing to spend 100-200 million on a team, especially if they're priced out of the NHL.

They aren't obligated to do so, but if they chose to do so there's absolutely an underutilized market.

Your comparisons to soccer are completely off base to the point that I genuinely don't think you know what you're talking about.

Your need to exaggerate and engage in black and white thinking isn't rational.

I can flick on the EPL and flip back to MLS and notice an obvious talent differential(it was wider in the past), it isn't a dagger to the heart to chose the lessor league.

What you are proposing is a very minor league, it will draw very minor talent and sell tickets for a very minor price in very minor arenas.

You're arguing it's very minor.

And the rest of us arguing that it'd be a step up from the CFL on a number of fronts.

More games, more cities starved for franchises, a sport people watch, ability to avoid oversized markets etc.

Such a league can exist, but you are living in fantasy land if you think players will leave 3rd line jobs or that

You're engaging in black and white thinking at the extreme, if you think an Adam Lowry type wouldn't seriously consider being a super star for the same money with less travel etc.

You have 100+ 3rd liners in the NHL, you'd have something like 12 C-League teams.

You don't need every one to come over.

That's not to mention a 20 year old Lafreiner type who might do a year closer to home versus the AHL.

spouses will threaten to dump their family to go play in this league.

Are you really serious?

A 34 year old playing in Toronto is told by his wife she doesn't want to move to St Louis for 3 years just so her husband can make 2 million a year to play on the 4th line? Versus same money with only 30 road games, many of which are in driving distance.

You're not married if you think that's a "never ever" situation.

Canadian franchises exist in the NHL in all of Canada's largest cities. They will continue to exist,

And they don't exist in any of the middle tier cities, funny how that works isn't it, it's almost as if it's not a black and white situation. You can have both.

and those teams will continue to draw all of the local attention, corporate sponsorships and media coverage.

A company in Halifax isn't sending their sponsorship to Toronto, a company in Halifax isn't gonna have an employee draw to a game in Montreal.

Do you think Halifax is full of fisherman in rowboats? I mean that very literally.

Like you literally sound like you don't know how that works. My husband would literally run into his employer at the local OHL arena.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

It’s time for a separate section in HF Boards for all of the Canadian conspiracy theorists who think that Bettman, the Toronto situation room and the refs are all out to get Canadian teams.
I’m sure that keeping the largest markets and stars like McDavid, Draisaitl, Matthews and Marner from advancing in the playoffs is all part of some massive conspiracy by Bettman and crew for some reasons the rest of us aren’t privy to. He probably forced the Canadian teams to hire GM’s like Benning. Chiarelli and Bergevin too!

 

[WarriorofTime]

Have you even been to a market like London? Halifax? Kitchener? Victoria? Hamilton? Quebec City?

Top CHL teams are worth roughly 50 million a piece, it's very reasonable a person with money would be willing to spend 100-200 million on a team, especially if they're priced out of the NHL.

They aren't obligated to do so, but if they chose to do so there's absolutely an underutilized market.




Your need to exaggerate and engage in black and white thinking isn't rational.

I can flick on the EPL and flip back to MLS and notice an obvious talent differential(it was wider in the past), it isn't a dagger to the heart to chose the lessor league.





You're arguing it's very minor.

And the rest of us arguing that it'd be a step up from the CFL on a number of fronts.

More games, more cities starved for franchises, a sport people watch, ability to avoid oversized markets etc.





You're engaging in black and white thinking at the extreme, if you think an Adam Lowry type wouldn't seriously consider being a super star for the same money with less travel etc.

You have 100+ 3rd liners in the NHL, you'd have something like 12 C-League teams.

You don't need every one to come over.

That's not to mention a 20 year old Lafreiner type who might do a year closer to home versus the AHL.

Are you really serious?

A 34 year old playing in Toronto is told by his wife she doesn't want to move to St Louis for 3 years just so her husband can make 2 million a year to play on the 4th line? Versus same money with only 30 road games, many of which are in driving distance.

You're not married if you think that's a "never ever" situation.





And they don't exist in any of the middle tier cities, funny how that works isn't it, it's almost as if it's not a black and white situation. You can have both.




A company in Halifax isn't sending their sponsorship to Toronto, a company in Halifax isn't gonna have an employee draw to a game in Montreal.

Do you think Halifax is full of fisherman in rowboats? I mean that very literally.

Like you literally sound like you don't know how that works. My husband would literally run into his employer at the local OHL arena.

"the rest of us" - don't drag everyone else into your delusions, it's you alone in fantasy land on this one.

Baby cities can support junior hockey, that doesn't mean they're going to transfer all of that support over to a shitty pro league, they are different things with different appeals.

No, the money will not be the same, you can't keep repeating it. The USFL is a professional football league in the United States that operates in large arenas in pretty large sized American cities. Tickets cost about $10-$20 to go to a game. The players make $4,500 a game with small bonuses when their team does well. You dream of wives demanding their husbands play in Canada for 1/50th of the salary is not realistic. They are hockey wives, they know what that entails, and the financial rewards usually make that worth it.

20 year olds are not playing a breakaway independent minor hockey league unless they have no other options. Their dream is to play in the NHL, they will play in leagues affiliated with the NHL in order to make that a reality. The first overall pick does not play in the Federal Prospects Hockey League.

Junior hockey is not being replaced, and if such a league exists it will be small and irrelevant in the eyes of the mainstream media. The (very small) business communities in these cities are not shelling out major cash to sponsor teams in these leagues.

 

[Lady Stanley]

"the rest of us" - don't drag everyone else into your delusions, it's you alone in fantasy land on this one.

Lol there's literally 75 likes on the first post of this thread.

Baby cities can support junior hockey, that doesn't mean they're going to transfer all of that support over to a shitty pro league

Lol cities of half million people are not baby cities.

London would literally out generate Arizona if you put that team here tomorrow.

Lol cities of half million people are not baby cities. This is just absurd unjustified arrogance.

, they are different things with different appeals.

No, the money will not be the same, you can't keep repeating it. The USFL is a professional football league in the United States that operates in large arenas in pretty large sized American cities.

Large cities aren't ideal, that's the CFLs mistake. Middle tier cities are the ones with the demand.

Tickets cost about $10-$20 to go to a game. The players make $4,500 a game with small bonuses when their team does well.

Right because drum roll, college football is massive and fills in that niche of mid tier league.

Canada doesn't have a division 1 equivalent.

You dream of wives demanding their husbands play in Canada for 1/50th of the salary

You say the 1/50th, I say you've never been to any of these cities, and have no idea what you're talking about.

is not realistic. They are hockey wives, they know what that entails, and the financial rewards usually make that worth it.

A guy with 40 million in career earning is gonna move the entire family for the same money so he can play on a rebuild team?

Oh god don't get married, it won't last long. As a wife I'll educate you, the deal you make with your wife in year 1 is nullified by year 2, you reup every day. If a woman decides she only need half her money and would rather stay with her parents that's what happens.

20 year olds are not playing a breakaway independent minor hockey league unless they have no other options.

You know unless the people holding on to your contract want you to get some experience, and you don't want to make AHL wages.

Their dream is to play in the NHL, they will play in leagues affiliated with the NHL in order to make that a reality. The first overall pick does not play in the Federal Prospects Hockey League.

Last years 1st round pick was literally in the chl for part of this season.

Junior hockey is not being replaced,

The CHL is in 60 markets, 12 of which would become senior major junior in the scenario I mentioned.

and if such a league exists it will be small and irrelevant in the eyes of the mainstream media.

So? Like you see to think this league has to please you, it doesn't.

The (very small) business communities in these cities are not shelling out major cash to sponsor teams in these leagues.

(very small) don't embarrass yourself "bro".

Do I need to hand you the list of forbs 500 companies spending major money in these cities?

Or you know billion dollar property developer moving out from Toronto?

You do realize in a city like Kitchener-Hamliton-London million dollar homes are everywhere?

 

[WarriorofTime]

Oh god don't get married, it won't last long. As a wife I'll educate you, the deal you make with your wife in year 1 is nullified by year 2, you reup every day. If a woman decides she only need half her money and would rather stay with her parents that's what happens.

I'm already married, but thanks for the condescending tone. I guess I'll have to tell it's not gonna work out because some stranger on the internet said so.

 

[Lady Stanley]

I'm already married, but thanks for the condescending tone. I guess I'll have to tell it's not gonna work out because some stranger on the internet said so.

Your hockey wives line can't be taken back. You said it with conviction. "they know their place they're hockey wives".

 

[WarriorofTime]

Your hockey wives line can't be taken back. You said it with conviction. "they know their place they're hockey wives".

Your fantasy of evil conspiring hockey wives that are demanding their husbands play in little cities for $40,000 instead of major cities for $2,000,000, or else they'll divorce them and take the kids, is laughable and false.

 

[Lady Stanley]

Your fantasy of evil conspiring hockey wives

You mean selfish middle aged men who want to chase a childhood fantasy at the well being of his children and his marriage, to make no financial gain?

that are demanding their husbands play in little cities for $40,000

You made that up, you need to sober up if I for a moment suggested a guy is play for $40,000.

$2 million a year is already something the current london nights could do. You being an expert and all on "baby cities" would know this.

instead of major cities for $2,000,000, or else they'll divorce them and take the kids, is laughable and false.

You realize there's NHL players currently in the league with multi million dollar properties in London already? Whos wives don't even automatic move to their husbands current nhl city?

Because it turn out inlaw parents and parents are better supports for the children than a husband who spends half his time on the road.

When you have kids major cities can have zero of the appeal that they did before you have kids.

 

[The Panther]

The eastern teams aren’t giving up their travel schedule so they can play more often 3 time zones away.

They'd do it if the NHL said they had to. For example, in 2021 the NHL said "do it", and the Leafs, Habs, and Senators did it. The world didn't end.

Besides, the only club that's "three time zones away" is Vancouver. And the Leafs and Habs would be playing L.A., San Jose, Anaheim, etc., less than they are now, probably. So, a few more trips to Vancouver each season would just equate with the west-coast trips they make now.

 

[tucker3434]

They'd do it if the NHL said they had to. For example, in 2021 the NHL said "do it", and the Leafs, Habs, and Senators did it. The world didn't end.

Besides, the only club that's "three time zones away" is Vancouver. And the Leafs and Habs would be playing L.A., San Jose, Anaheim, etc., less than they are now, probably. So, a few more trips to Vancouver each season would just equate with the west-coast trips they make now.

At that point, it was solving a major problem, cross-border travel. That doesn’t exist anymore. Now it’s just an unnecessary inconvenience. There would be push back today. And who actually cares enough to fight for this?