Is it really Randy Carlyle's fault?
- Thread starter WarriorofTime
- Start date
i wouldnt go that far.... whether Randy Man is canned or not, sooner or later the players NEED to be held accountable.
if he was fired, would that turn the Leafs into a playoff team? possible but highly unlikely
What does that mean? I don't mean to be a dick, but I'm genuinely not sure what that means. How do you "hold players accountable"? What positive affect does it have on a team when the players are held accountable? How many more wins does a team with accountable players get?
You're basing that on nothing factual and is really just a hunch. You can't speak about "likelihoods" when your only source of information is a hunch.
This is really all you need to look at:
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2014/4/17/5618696/toronto-maple-leafs-wowys-randy-carlyle-edition
First bar is the player under Wilson. The latter are under Carlyle, progressively.
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2014/4/17/5618696/toronto-maple-leafs-wowys-randy-carlyle-edition
First bar is the player under Wilson. The latter are under Carlyle, progressively.
bag skate them, bench them, do whatever it takes to get the point across that they need to do their jobs better. what happened after Wilson got fired? players said "it wasnt all his fault, we should've played better". the narrative in Toronto has been the same for almost a decade.
youre right, its my opinion. thats what this forum is for. theres no sense in getting bent out of shape over mine. id invite you to share your own but i think youre taking this a little too seriously as it is already
Beukeboom Fan
Registered User
Holding players accountable means that when a guy like Lupul or Kessel tanks a play and don't play any defense - you sit their ***** on the bench and play someone who cares. When a player shows no effort and they continue to get icetime - what is there incentive to change their behavior?
The "it wasn't all his fault we should've played better" is the typical cliche stock answer pretty much any team gives after a coach firing. For coaches that the players weren't openly against at least.
Cliche, stock interview answers are common throughout the league in regards to questions in general.
In fairness, most coaches aren't going to bench a guy like Kessel or Lupul. They're both definite top six point producers and those types of players don't get benched and if they do it's not for long because teams can't afford to just sit out their best offensive producers. Especially in Kessel's case, considering he's an elite scorer.
It's also not uncommon for point producers to be incapable of quality defensive play. Even for some non point producing players that holds true.
I also don't know how you judge a player's heart and care by watching on the television. I'd also say that if there is in fact a serious problem in that regard then that's typically a sign of players having quit on the coach.
Pyrophorus
Registered User
Bill Waters*
Registered User
Trottier
Very Random
"Fault" for what?
Having the Leafs in a playoff position?
I swear, sone fans and media are sooooooooooooooo clueless.
Having the Leafs in a playoff position?
I swear, sone fans and media are sooooooooooooooo clueless.
hisgirlfriday
Moderator
- Jun 9, 2013
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Trap Jesus
Registered User
- Feb 13, 2012
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While some of the players may simply just be un-coachable (I'm looking at you Kessel...), it's still up to the coach to try to get the most out of his players. The forwards' total lack of commitment to helping out the D was a glaring issue for years (arguably being their biggest problem) and it was never really addressed. He has to take some blame for that.
WarriorofTime
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2010
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"Fault" for what?
Having the Leafs in a playoff position?
I swear, sone fans and media are sooooooooooooooo clueless.
Well he just got fired so clearly it's not all cheery in Toronto.
Swervin81
Leaf fan | YYZ -> SEA
It's not all his fault, but he definitely was a major factor with possession charts like this.
Hell, look at Anaheim under Carlyle and Boudreau, sure you'll find similar a similar pattern, just reversed since Carlyle came first.
Jimmy Firecracker
They Fired Sheldon!
"Fault" for what?
Having the Leafs in a playoff position?
I swear, sone fans and media are sooooooooooooooo clueless.
Comments like this tell me the poster really has no idea of the goings on in Leafs Land.
In any case, it's not all Carlyle's fault, but he certainly wasn't helping anything.
It has alot to do with how Carlyle wanted the guys to play, you could see how his systems were dysfunctional
"Fault" for what?
Having the Leafs in a playoff position?
I swear, sone fans and media are sooooooooooooooo clueless.
Some very poorly timed condescension on your part.
Cult of Hynes
Hynes is never wrong.
- Nov 9, 2010
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When you have the same core and go through more than one coach, yea, its not the coaches fault. I think Carlyle is an okay coach, but it certainly isnt his fault the Leafs are the way they are.
Everyone is to blame, the team has no identity.
The leafs need to get rid of the players who wont commit to defensive hockey and start to play like the New Jersey devils of the 90's or Wild of the 00's, both Lemaire inspired. Easier said then done, I know.
Protect the goalie, defensive hockey, offense from trapping and turnovers, a bit of skill but overall blue colour effort.
The leafs need to get rid of the players who wont commit to defensive hockey and start to play like the New Jersey devils of the 90's or Wild of the 00's, both Lemaire inspired. Easier said then done, I know.
Protect the goalie, defensive hockey, offense from trapping and turnovers, a bit of skill but overall blue colour effort.
This is all to common i team sports , team is "underachieving" = easier to fire the coach then to fire 10-15 players (impossible in NHL anyways) and for GM to accept blame for a poorly buildt team.
Actually it took 10-15 games after Boudreau came in mid-season (with the same roster) for Anaheim to become a very good possession team.
johnny_rudeboy
Registered User
This.
Carlyle is not a great coach, not a bad one either.
He him self said it the best (and probably why he got fired).
Leafs are a very dysfunctional team with little to no accountability. That´s what happens when the whole squad is mostly made up of other teams undesirables.
This is our core.
Kessel, our main star could not change his game or attitude to fit in to Stanley Cup contender. Most players would love to be around in an organisation like the Bruins but Kessel hated it. Is there really any surprise he does not buy in to what ever the coach is preaching in Toronto when the leadership structure and support for the coaches is much weaker there then in Boston and he did not buy in to it there?
Kessel is no enigma, no secrets about him. The guy that showed up at the draft combine in 2006, insecure, unfit and a reputation about being a bad teammate because his temper when things did not go his way is the same guy we see now as a 27 year old, highly paid veteran.
Phaneuf, for some reason(s) Calgary wanted him out ASAP. We can all speculate about what happened but a team does not trade a player like Dion for no reason at all. That he struggled defensively, was a negative in the dressing room etc was the speculation at the time. Have he shown anything to suggest that was just meaningless speculation?
JVR. The thing with JVR is that when he is on his game he is really on his game and can take a game over like few others. Size, skill and pace. A wonderful package. But the reason Flyers gave up on him was that he rarely showed that commitment and passion. Is it any surprise that he act and play the same way in Toronto?
Lupul, passionate guy who is weak defensively and have trouble staying healthy. Is there really any surprise he comes and goes out of the line up and that once he is on the line up can score goals but also be out of position when it comes to defending, that is what he has done his whole career?
I could go on and on. But look at the Leafs roster, most of the guys where picked and developed by other organisations and for one reason or another those organisations decided they could do better by trading them away. Is it then any surprise that the collective of this flawed individuals are not working together?
Burkes idea of cutting corners and do a quick rebuild simply has not worked and what the organisation needs to do is to realise it and start over. I am all for making good hockey trades but usually a teams core is drafted and developed together. Key additions is always needed from free agency or through trade. But if you are a bad franchise with a bad team the top players will not exactly line up to sign for you or waive their NTC if you try to get them that way. Not the really good ones anyway.
And when you make a big trade for a one-way winger, that was the least of the Leafs need at the time and make him the highest paid player on the team, you kind of send the message what Leafs hockey is all about. It is about entertainment, not winning. Our players can be really entertaining with the speed and puck skills they have but for every good shift they take, they take 2-3 bad ones. For every good game they play, they play 2-3 bad ones. And that is all down to the players.
