Is it really Randy Carlyle's fault?

[Shorthander]

How are the Leafs "too good" in any sense of the phrase? The guys topping the depth chart at all positions are all players who would be better suited to a supporting role on any truly competitive team.

There is some illusion that they are good because they can score goals. But in any game that can't be stretched into 6-4 win, they're completely lost.

 

[Machinehead]

We'll see. I think the roster still has holes, but I don't think Carlyle was helping.

 

[MikeK]

They have a middle of the road roster so no they aren't. I would argue that they're lucky to be as high in the standings as they are. It says a lot more about how bad some of the East teams are this season.

 

[KCC]

Not really. They're like many teams such as the Avs and Oilers. A lot of fire power up front, but terrible defense to where the goaltending has to bail the team out on a nightly basis. And if that falters, that's all she wrote.

But they are a bubble team in the East if they can piece it together and hang in there. If they were in the West though, they'd probably be as bad as EDM.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Leafs aren't even that bad

definition of mediocre

 

[Reign Nateo]

Weak and soft down the middle.

Defence has a couple decent players that are pretty limited in Phanuef and Franson. Then some soft kiddies that need to be sheltered in Reilly and Gardiner and whatever is left of Robidas.

They're exactly where they should be and it's not Carlyle's fault.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Can you name a worse group of top 4 centers in the NHL? The Leafs have the weakest center depth in the NHL, rivaled by the Oilers.

And they have an extremely passive aggressive blueline that is good for a number of brainfarts on a nightly basis.

Toronto has a difficult time accepting the fact that their team isn't very good and has been in the same situation for a number of years.

 

[Billy6]

I've been watching this team for 25+ years. Believe me when I say that this coaching change will do nothing to change this team. It doesn't matter who the coach is, this group of players is not capable of winning consistently in the NHL. There is talent on this roster but unfortunately talent isn't enough if you don't also have character, hustle, desire, etc to go with it.

This team with this core will never be more than they currently are which is an average team at best and a complete train wreck at worst.

Anybody who thinks this was a Carlyle problem must also think it was a Ron Wilson problem because the same thing happened to him with this group of slugs.

I feel bad for Carlyle but in the long run this firing will expose the true issues with the players that some people still pretend aren't there when people say silly things like "the Leafs are too talented to be this bad."

They are this bad folks. Only a huge roster overhaul and patience will change that.

 

[hackey]

It's the two top "ahem" leaders on the team
Flying Phil and dazzling Dion

Don't cut it

 

[Butch 19]

really, again?

 

[sayheykid]

I'd say they're pretty close to where one would expect them to be with their roster. Carlyle may not have been helping much, but his firing isn't going to be a panacea for the Leafs' issues either.

 

[Dolemite]

The Leafs are too lazy and coddled to be talented.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

This team has sucked way before Carlyle got there. They are being bailed out by their goalies on most nights. When your top line offensive guys are also huge defensive liabilities your team is going to suffer, especially when your captain is not a leader and a pylon on most nights and looks lost.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Their core players are awful compared to the top teams in the league. No elite defender, and a bunch of #5s playing larger roles than they should. Their top 2 lines and Bernier are the only reason they're capable of winning any games this year

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Saying Toronto is "too talented" is just wrong.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

No they're not.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

No they really aren't

The only talented players they have are Kessel, JVR, Kadri and Reilly

So Phaneuf,Gardiner,Lupul,Bernier aren't talented? c'mon

 

[CanadianSniper]

They absolutely are that bad. Not sure why you think this lol.

 

[jimmyemery]

Toronto really isn't anywhere near as talented as most of their fans say.
And its getting ridiculous how much its talked about.
That said, to the toronto fans here speaking realistically, thank you.
If I have to see another maple leafs thread, its a welcomed sight to have some rational, smart input from your fan base.

 

[DanZ]

They have a good offense, but they are terrible defensively and have pretty poor center depth, which contributes to the poor defense as well. That puts them right where they are. Not good, but not bad. A playoff bubble team.

Poor coaching can certainly contribute to their record, but I don't think they "deserve" to be much higher in the standings than they are based on their talent.

Of the teams in front of them in the East, who exactly are they more talented than to deserve to be higher in the standings?

 

[SirPaste]

Are they really tho?

 

[Cult of Hynes]

So Phaneuf,Gardiner,Lupul,Bernier aren't talented? c'mon

Pahneuf, a pylon on and off, not worth the money he gets, terrible skating gets caught out of position, makes horrible decisions.

Gardiner, terrible defensively, good offensively, makes horrible choices.

Lupul , good offensively, actually puts in an effort and looks lazy on the d side of things and is always getting hurt it seems.

bernier, the main reason the leafs are not with a loosing record.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

So Phaneuf,Gardiner,Lupul,Bernier aren't talented? c'mon

Phaneuf isn't what I'd consider a skill player

He's a good defender for sure though

Lupul is meh, I guess I could have counted him though

Gardiner is too young to be considered an established talent in my book

Bernier is a stud but I was only counting skaters

Generally speaking talent refers to offensive abilities

 

[NyQuil]

I think they have one elite player (Kessel), some good players (Bernier, Phaneuf, Kadri) and then a bunch of mediocre players or players too early in their development to contribute effectively.

The right coach and the right system might gain them some points, but I can't see this roster as a contender with any bench boss, at least in the short-term.

 

[Crazed Beaver]

Actually feel kind of bad for kessel. Lupul and Clarkson are combined for 30 points and a 10.5 mil cap hit and all you hear is how lazy phil is, all his ffault yadda yadda yadda. Why alienate your best player by scapegoating him when the gm handing out the crap contracts is more to blame.