Is it really Randy Carlyle's fault?
- Thread starter WarriorofTime
- Start date
hatterson
Registered User
I don't even know if he's the biggest issue, but he's certainly in consideration for it and coach is, by far, the easiest thing to change.
You're not making over this roster in a hurry, too many high priced contracts. But you can fire a coach in an instant.
Swervin81
Leaf fan | YYZ -> SEA
Well tonight was a fine display of his coaching idiocy
1. First game of a back to back? Play the entire top line ~25 min, more than some #1 d-men
2. Clarkson having a horrible game and being a liability out there on a nightly basis? Promote him to the top PP unit when JVR gets hurt
3. Done by 2? Wait till a minute left to pull the goalie
While coaching and players are both problems, ultimately, it all goes back to management.
1. First game of a back to back? Play the entire top line ~25 min, more than some #1 d-men
2. Clarkson having a horrible game and being a liability out there on a nightly basis? Promote him to the top PP unit when JVR gets hurt
3. Done by 2? Wait till a minute left to pull the goalie
While coaching and players are both problems, ultimately, it all goes back to management.
Lafleurs Guy
Guuuuuuuy!
- Jul 20, 2007
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Not sure how he could pull the goalie any earlier with Kessel in the penalty box...Well tonight was a fine display of his coaching idiocy
1. First game of a back to back? Play the entire top line ~25 min, more than some #1 d-men
2. Clarkson having a horrible game and being a liability out there on a nightly basis? Promote him to the top PP unit when JVR gets hurt
3. Done by 2? Wait till a minute left to pull the goalie
While coaching and players are both problems, ultimately, it all goes back to management.
Swervin81
Leaf fan | YYZ -> SEA
Forgot about it. Either way, the first two though are horrible coaching mistakes.
I'm just interested in seeing who these imaginary people are that say it's ALL Carlyle's fault and nothing to do with our players.
I can definitely point to group of people that argue the opposite.
The Leafs need to make changes to their core which has obvious flaws. You can not make those decision until you see the players away from Carlyle.
I can definitely point to group of people that argue the opposite.
The Leafs need to make changes to their core which has obvious flaws. You can not make those decision until you see the players away from Carlyle.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
He isn't the ONLY problem but he is perhaps the biggest problem with the team.
The numbers are undeniable and clear as day - his coaching style is outdated and is essentially anti-possession. The same thing happened during his final years with the ducks.
Ron Wilson who was constantly criticized for his "run and gun" style and he gave up far less shots per game. Wilson simply wasn't gifted the same level of goaltending as Carlyle (in fact Wilskn was cursed with some of the worst goaltending in Leaf history).
Carlyle need to be fired today, so that the team can focus more on the other problems.
The numbers are undeniable and clear as day - his coaching style is outdated and is essentially anti-possession. The same thing happened during his final years with the ducks.
Ron Wilson who was constantly criticized for his "run and gun" style and he gave up far less shots per game. Wilson simply wasn't gifted the same level of goaltending as Carlyle (in fact Wilskn was cursed with some of the worst goaltending in Leaf history).
Carlyle need to be fired today, so that the team can focus more on the other problems.
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WilliamNylander
Papi's home
- Jul 26, 2012
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Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
Wasn't it like 2 or 3 weeks ago TML fans were telling us they are one of the top teams in the East? I'm so confused.
Tak7
Registered User
When your team has played just seven playoff games in the past decade, clearly there's enough blame and fault to go around that it's not just one person's fault.
The core of the team isn't good enough. Management isn't smart enough. And yes, coaching isn't good enough.
All of the bad habits that Carlyle implemented that sent this team into that death spiral last March, are the same habits that he's implementing now: over-reliant on a first line that is horrendous off the puck, no defensive structure or system, no rolling of 4 lines, out shot, out worked, and outplayed, etc etc.
Sure you could fire management, an dynamite the roster, but right up there on the list of "how to fix the Maple Leafs" is to get rid of the leader of this gong show.
The core of the team isn't good enough. Management isn't smart enough. And yes, coaching isn't good enough.
All of the bad habits that Carlyle implemented that sent this team into that death spiral last March, are the same habits that he's implementing now: over-reliant on a first line that is horrendous off the puck, no defensive structure or system, no rolling of 4 lines, out shot, out worked, and outplayed, etc etc.
Sure you could fire management, an dynamite the roster, but right up there on the list of "how to fix the Maple Leafs" is to get rid of the leader of this gong show.
Giuseppe Sallo
ELE-VAT-ED
They're a streaky team. Good when they want to be, bad when they don't play good structured D.
Been saying this for the longest time. Blow it up. And it starts at drafting. Good news is Nylander could be Kessels replacement. Sell lazy Phil for prospects.
Giuseppe Sallo
ELE-VAT-ED
Also missing that elite D man which we sorely lack. The core is there but the D is the biggest let down.
I suggest you watch the Bruins game on Wednesday. Those 65 minutes are the best way to describe the Leafs.
They can play shockingly well against good teams and then suddenly in the same game forget how to play hockey at all.
Great 35 minutes, terrible the next 30.
DL44
Status quo
Randy coaching the Marlies as well?
Looks like they had a flawed organization philosophy for player personnel. One they are obviously actively addressing with their Dubas and other analytics hires...
BananaSquad
Registered User
They have a winning record like wow. Do leaf fans expect an elite team with a different coach? You guys are built on the wing and in net, not sure how much better its going to get regardless of who is the coach.
Until their best and highest paid player starts to show he cares, and starts playing a complete game, this team is going to stay inconsistant. It sounds silly but why would anyone give an effort on the defensive side of the puck when your best player doesnt. All of those top guys have long term deals so why give an effort on defence when Kessel doesnt.
Until their best and highest paid player starts to show he cares, and starts playing a complete game, this team is going to stay inconsistant. It sounds silly but why would anyone give an effort on the defensive side of the puck when your best player doesnt. All of those top guys have long term deals so why give an effort on defence when Kessel doesnt.
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- Oct 30, 2006
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In all likelihood the Leafs no longer hold a playoff position. Those teams imediately trailing them hold games in hand. Once those games are played, it's likely they're a non-playoff squad. They're sort of like an airplane crash victim who looks down and see his legs severed. Technically still alive...but just waiting to bleed out and die.
Personally, I don't blame Kessel for blowing up at the refs last night. For the first 30+ games, the Leafs had the most preferential treatment by the officials. They could pretty much count on seeing the vast majority of calls going their way. Now, over the last few games, it appears the refs have moved towards more balanced and evenhanded approach to calling games.
Kessel is getting frustrated, as would most anyone, as he sees the Leafs' privilege dry up. The recent introduction of more fairness and less official bias has Kessel and his team unable to step up, compensate and compete on a level ice surface.
Personally, I don't blame Kessel for blowing up at the refs last night. For the first 30+ games, the Leafs had the most preferential treatment by the officials. They could pretty much count on seeing the vast majority of calls going their way. Now, over the last few games, it appears the refs have moved towards more balanced and evenhanded approach to calling games.
Kessel is getting frustrated, as would most anyone, as he sees the Leafs' privilege dry up. The recent introduction of more fairness and less official bias has Kessel and his team unable to step up, compensate and compete on a level ice surface.
MastuhNinks
Registered User
That's quite possible but has nothing to do with this thread.
Never ceases to amaze me how immature people are here, trying to 'own' a fanbase or extrapolate the views of millions of people based on a couple individual posts. We're not teams competing against eachother, posting on message boards isn't a part of league competition. We're here for hockey discussion, I don't know why people try to turn it into something more.
Steve
Registered User
- Mar 6, 2002
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I don't think they don't want it but they are so afraid to lose they stop playing the game. They almost expect to blow a lead. The players need to commit to playing defense. All I'm saying is that defense can be taught, and it's up to the player to want to play on that side of the puck
Beukeboom Fan
Registered User
Forwards top 10 if you are only evaluating them based on offensive skill maybe.
I watch a lot of Leafs games, and the offensive forward s except Kadri are absolutely brutal defensively. Add in an over matched or inexperienced d-group, and it requires the goaltending to bail them out often.
Some of it is the roster, and some of it is Carlyle being unable to get the team to play at least average defensively. That is on Carlyle IMO.
KGL
Auston 3:16
- Sep 5, 2014
- 7,499
- 9
Yes. Absolutely. Look at the situation in Anaheim and it was pretty similar. They turned it around. Now I'm not saying the Leafs would completely turn it around like the Ducks did but firing Carlyle would at least be a step in the right direction.
You look at each player's possession stats under Carlyle and away from Carlyle and they are almost always better away from Carlyle. Not sure how anyone can argue that Carlyle isn't a huge issue.
And yeah, the Leafs are in a playoff spot for now but give it a week or two. Teams below them are gaining fast and they all have games in hand. Leafs could drop three or four spots pretty quickly.
You look at each player's possession stats under Carlyle and away from Carlyle and they are almost always better away from Carlyle. Not sure how anyone can argue that Carlyle isn't a huge issue.
And yeah, the Leafs are in a playoff spot for now but give it a week or two. Teams below them are gaining fast and they all have games in hand. Leafs could drop three or four spots pretty quickly.
KGL
Auston 3:16
- Sep 5, 2014
- 7,499
- 9
Doubt they even make the playoffs so yeah, he's gone. Nonis is likely gone too. It's what's best for this team at this point. Draft high, scrap Nonis and Carlyle and start fresh next season with smarter people at the helm.
It's our "leaders" faults. Phaneuf and Kessel, they are lazy and choose when they want to play, our less skilled players then play with that same energy because the leaders do. Carlyle is also a leader however. So he does shoulder plenty of blame.
