Is Cale Makar a generational talent?

[hockeydog23]

Health will be a huge factor for him going forward, he plays a high octane, power offensive game which is rare for a defenceman. Had he actually been able to stay healthy this year, he would have won the Hobey Baker, followed by the Calder, followed by the Norris, all while accumulating 31 points in 35 playoff games as a defenceman.

Tough to start much better than that as a D. I could see this coming season or the next as his highest offensive output which is a normal age for highly talented players to peak offensively. There hasn’t been a 90 point dman since the 90’s, would be cool to see another this season.

Had Adam fox played in Arizona, Makar would have won the Norris along with the other awards.

 

[hockeydog23]

Was Lidstrom ever considered the unanimous best (or even 2nd/3rd) player during his career?
We're not talking defensemen here, but generational player.
I don't think it's crazy to suggest that a guy who never won a Hart or Lindsay (or Conn Smythe) isn't generational.... After all, there's not a handful of these players each generation.

Who never won a conn smythe?

 

[Zenos]

Who never won a conn smythe?

haha Good catch. I honestly completely forgot he won it in 2002 (early onset dementia?).

but I still don’t think it’s outlandish to consider Lidstrom an incredible defenseman (easily one of the best of all time) without being a generational player.

 

[WarriorOfGandhi]

Also, why is he named like a vegetable?

to appease Nathan MacKinnon’s gastronomic tyranny

 

[M2Beezy]

Yes

 

[Avelanche]

Let’s wait till he can grow a beard first. He’s 22.

 

[Siludin]

Serious question - was Bobby Orr a shutdown defender? I only know about his offense, but know little about his defense.

You'll have a hard time getting anyone to admit that a defenseman that puts up a ton of points is a shutdown defender, but Orr was one off the best skaters in the NHL, he had almost 3x more shorthanded points than the next-highest defenseman, and he was +200 over top of the next highest defenseman from 66/67 through 76/77.

Dallas Smith 17 SHP
Bobby Orr 47 SHP

Serge Savard +378
Bobby Orr +580

They didn't track TOI/real time stats but I am guessing that Orr played as much as humanly possible during his peak.

NHL Stats

 

[Toews2Bickell]

think he's going to be prime keith but with elite offensive ability

 

[Voight]

Ahhhhh what? The dude won 7 Norris trophies....

I can't even take this post seriously.

SEVEN Norris's?

GENERATIONAL.

And he did it for so long too.

Please, lock this thread. It has jumped the shark.

He was never the best player in the league. Not once.

Guys like Howe, Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux, Ovechkin and Sid were the best player in the league multiple occasions.

While 7 Norris trophies is quit the feat, he didn't win any until his 9th season. Look at the above names... they were all guaranteed hall of fame locks by their 9th season.

& I'm don't mean to demean his accomplishments, but his competition was fairly weak compared to the decade(s) before him.

 

[Willy Stylez]

Cheers

 

[CTHabsfan]

Every mention of Raymond Bourque is this thread states he was not a generational defenseman and Paul Coffey isn't even discussed in this thread, yet check out the career resumes of those two guys. If Bourque and Coffey aren't generational players, Cale Makar has a long way to go before he can considered generational.

 

[Norwegianoiler]

Do not misunderstand me here, Makar is a thrill to watch, but development and careers are rarely linear in the way they unfold. Too often we expect young players who dominate to simply continue the trend and add to it. Drew Doughty, for example, made a hell of an impression early, but has fallen out of (a lot of) favor lately. Now there's no need to jump in and compare the two types of players on my account, but to me that's something to consider when we hail the new shiny thing that comes out. Enjoy it while for however long it lasts - it might be for the next ten years, but take nothing for granted.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Gretzky and Mario were born 4 years apart. Which was generational ? Can't be both right ?
How about we just do away with the competely meaningless nonsense term 'generational' instead?

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Every mention of Raymond Bourque is this thread states he was not a generational defenseman and Paul Coffey isn't even discussed in this thread, yet check out the career resumes of those two guys. If Bourque and Coffey aren't generational players, Cale Makar has a long way to go before he can considered generational.

Are you intending on putting Ray Bourque and Paul Coffey on the same level as defensemen? If so, that is extremely wrong.

 

[TomppaKoo]

Somebody please give a specific definition of what a "generational talent" means. And who defined it. This thread is hilarious. Makar is a good skater and can hold his own in physical play, but regarding defensive he is not in top10 at the moment. He is more like a 4th attacker than a defenseman. Most of the time, anyway.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Makar unbelievable but he has been very fortunate to come into league straight into contender with top 3 hockey player and amazing depth. Not willing to give him any title such as the above without a Norris or two and a serious leading playoff contribution in the next 3 years. Anything less is not generational.

For example, 2 years ago he had 15 points in 15 playoff games. But that was good for 5th on the team; puts things into perspective. Nothing like EK's 2017 carry.

He's only finished two seasons but 94pts in 101 GP is beyond impressive. Also not to mention 31 pts in 35 playoff games. Not many defenseman put up those numbers this young, not even a rookie Erik Karlsson. So that makes me ask if you consider him to be a generational talent?

This is completely misinformed.

Makar is 22, tied for 4th in scoring on his team last year playing on a cup favourite. Karlsson already had a Norris at 21(youngest ever alongside Orr) and was 2nd on his team in points with huge gap with 3rd place playing on middling team.

Don't compare Makar to EK yet, they no where near the same level for now when compared to EK's prime. Talk to me when he has a Norris.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Somebody please give a specific definition of what a "generational talent" means. And who defined it. This thread is hilarious. Makar is a good skater and can hold his own in physical play, but regarding defensive he is not in top10 at the moment. He is more like a 4th attacker than a defenseman. Most of the time, anyway.

IMO a generational talent is someone who breaks long existing records or matches some insane accomplishments.

For example, Karlsson tying Orr as youngest defender to win Norris, Karlsson breaking Potvin record for leading team in points in consecutive seasons(5), Karlsson hitting 20 goals and 50 assists for first time since Leetch over 25 years ago. Karlsson having most points EVER by Swedish defensemen including against top 5 all-time Lidstrom who played on long dynasty. Karlsson having 3rd most contribution to team points all time after Orr and Potvin. Karlsson being I believe first every defender to lead Olympics in points in 2014. Karlsson's unbelievable playoffs leading team in points, contributing to 80% of all goals, and +/-.

Generational means STANDS OUT in a big ass way. The only defenders that were generational in their primes last 20 years are Lidstrom, Pronger, Karlsson.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

IMO a generational talent is someone who breaks long existing records or matches some insane accomplishments.

For example, Karlsson tying Orr as youngest defender to win Norris, Karlsson breaking Potvin record for leading team in points in consecutive seasons(5), Karlsson hitting 20 goals and 50 assists for first time since Leetch over 25 years ago. Karlsson having most points EVER by Swedish defensemen including against top 5 all-time Lidstrom who played on long dynasty. Karlsson having 3rd most contribution to team points all time after Orr and Potvin. Karlsson being I believe first every defender to lead Olympics in points in 2014. Karlsson's unbelievable playoffs leading team in points, contributing to 80% of all goals, and +/-.

Generational means STANDS OUT in a big ass way. The only defenders that were generational in their primes last 20 years are Lidstrom, Pronger, Karlsson.

What about Makar’s first two seasons doesn’t ‘stand out’?

8th in Norris voting as a rookie. 2nd in Norris voting in year two. Best point per game total by a defenceman in their first 100 games in the cap era. Currently 7th all-time in playoff points per game through his first 35 postseason games.

This is some special stuff. Talking like he’s nowhere near Karlsson is just silly.

 

[Freaky Styley]

From where I'm sitting, absolutely. Generational talent = one of the best (if not the best) players at his position this generation. Some people might disagree now but they will have to face facts sooner than later.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

From where I'm sitting, absolutely. Generational talent = one of the best (if not the best) players at his position this generation. Some people might disagree now but they will have to face facts sooner than later.

Facts seem to be something Avs fans have a hard time dealing with.

 

[Pucklington]

No

 

[T REX]

IMO a generational talent is someone who breaks long existing records or matches some insane accomplishments.

For example, Karlsson tying Orr as youngest defender to win Norris, Karlsson breaking Potvin record for leading team in points in consecutive seasons(5), Karlsson hitting 20 goals and 50 assists for first time since Leetch over 25 years ago. Karlsson having most points EVER by Swedish defensemen including against top 5 all-time Lidstrom who played on long dynasty. Karlsson having 3rd most contribution to team points all time after Orr and Potvin. Karlsson being I believe first every defender to lead Olympics in points in 2014. Karlsson's unbelievable playoffs leading team in points, contributing to 80% of all goals, and +/-.

Generational means STANDS OUT in a big ass way. The only defenders that were generational in their primes last 20 years are Lidstrom, Pronger, Karlsson.

But if the rest of your team is garbage?

 

[Voight]

Gretzky and Mario were born 4 years apart. Which was generational ? Can't be both right ?
How about we just do away with the competely meaningless nonsense term 'generational' instead?

Much like Ovechkin/Sid, sometimes they are born within years of each other. From Howe to Orr was a 20 year gap with nobody. & lets just say McDavid plays polo for a living and doesn't care for hockey, we'd be at almost 20 years now since Sid/Ovy came into the league with no generational players since.

 

[Puck Dogg]

Makar is same age group with McDavid. Latter won Hart by unanimous votes. That's the difference for me what constitutes generational so for the question, no.

 

[CTHabsfan]

Are you intending on putting Ray Bourque and Paul Coffey on the same level as defensemen? If so, that is extremely wrong.

My intention is showing how ridiculous it is to call Cale Makar a generational player, at this time. Makar will be lucky if his career accomplishments match Bourque or Coffey (I do think Bourque was better).