Salary Cap: Irrespective of playoff result, would you trade Nylander in the offseason?

[I am Canadian]

We'll see in a month, but it's a really good sign that Marner is having a great season after intense off-season criticism.

I hope so

 

[ShaneFalco]

If you think Nylander is the reason we lost to Montreal then I don't know what to say.

It's simply easier to move Nylander but that doesn't address the giant elephant in the room that was Marner and Matthews putrid display in the playoffs.

If they can't fix that mental issue then Leafs are screwed. Moving Nylander doesn't do anything to help them

Nowhere did I say anything about losing to the Habs - Nylander was one of the better players in that series.
So what are you saying then? Trade AM or Marner? Roll it all out again and hope they show up next year?

Change the balance of the team by trading a core piece - the logical one would be 88

 

[1specter]

We'll see in a month, but it's a really good sign that Marner is having a great season after intense off-season criticism.

It is, but this was also the case last season in case you forgot. He had a bad showing against Columbus in 2020 and received a ton of scrutiny that year since it was the first year of his new overpaid contract, and then he proceeded to have a great 2021 season where he finished 4th in the league in points, which of course was overshadowed again by a garbage playoffs.

I do think he's more confident this year especially in his goal scoring so I hope that translates to playoff success this time.

 

[riffle]

We'll see in a month, but it's a really good sign that Marner is having a great season after intense off-season criticism.

I wonder how guys who have been crushed by the weight of playoff expectations that are only getting heavier are going to be able to turn that around. Marner and Matthews were better early on in their playoff careers.

Marner put up 4 points in every playoff series save for his 2nd year when he had 9.

Matthews had 4 goals in year 1 and 5 in year 3. Had 2 in the 5 game series and 1 last season.

As the pressure to produce has grown with expectation they've dropped off. Marner's 4 points in 5 games vs. Columbus was an exception.

The recency bias of Montreal's performance is what people remember.

A Tampa or another Boston series doesn't scream breakout playoffs to me but we'll see.

 

[nuck]

We'll see in a month, but it's a really good sign that Marner is having a great season after intense off-season criticism.

He went 100 games without a ppg and now he has 5. People need to be more patient rather than assume every cold streak must be permanent.

 

[ShaneFalco]

He went 100 games without a ppg and now he has 5. People need to be more patient rather than assume every cold streak must be permanent.

100 games on the #1 PP with AM and no goals is a cold streak!?

 

[francis246]

It's not just the cap space. If Toronto flames out again, they need to make changes to the core regardless of the cap.

So does Florida, Florida’s core has done shit all the last 10 years as well. That’s the point. People over exaggerate Toronto’s issues.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

He needs to buy into the system. I don’t want to trade him, the return would be underwhelming.

That said until he commits to playing a two way game I do see the value in moving on.

 

[ShaneFalco]

So does Florida, Florida’s core has done shit all the last 10 years as well. That’s the point. People over exaggerate Toronto’s issues.

Why is there a need to compare the Leafs to other teams? The Leafs haven't won a round in decades but hey look at the Panthers. Shouldn't we expect more from a franchise that has all the resources in the world, and all the fan support in the world?
We could also do the opposite - hey look at vegas - they've accomplished more in 5 years (by far) than the Leafs have since 2004,

 

[Twowingcantfly]

If you think Nylander is the reason we lost to Montreal then I don't know what to say.

It's simply easier to move Nylander but that doesn't address the giant elephant in the room that was Marner and Matthews putrid display in the playoffs.

If they can't fix that mental issue then Leafs are screwed. Moving Nylander doesn't do anything to help them

Agreed. However Matthews' and Marner's effort in last years playoffs is not what let the Leafs down. Dubas let the team down by not bringing in the proper supporting cast. His reckless inflation of the cap prevented him from filling the lineup with players needed to withstand the physical playoff grind.

 

[ShaneFalco]

He needs to buy into the system. I don’t want to trade him, the return would be underwhelming.

That said until he commits to playing a two way game I do see the value in moving on.

I don't get this sentiment either - he puts up points, he has a nice contract, and is highly skilled? Why wouldn't we get a boat-load for him? It's fear - the what if he goes somewhere else and does better? So be it.

 

[nuck]

100 games on the #1 PP with AM and no goals is a cold streak!?

That was kind of my point. People want to shoot JT into the sun for a crappy January and February. Willie is -16 in Feb and March which might be the worst 2 months of his career. A lot of the trade him drive is coming from his slump. Maybe he needs to get dealt but there shouldn't be panic yet.

 

[Dreakmur]

So does Florida, Florida’s core has done shit all the last 10 years as well. That’s the point. People over exaggerate Toronto’s issues.

Florida has been growing. Toronto has been stagnant.

 

[Gabriel426]

Agreed. However Matthews' and Marner's effort in last years playoffs is not what let the Leafs down. Dubas let the team down by not bringing in the proper supporting cast. His reckless inflation of the cap prevented him from filling the lineup with players needed to withstand the physical playoff grind.

Huh? AM and MM didn't produce and thats why the Leafs didn't advance. Your best players need to be your best players in the playoffs. Also, they played 7 games, thats hardly playoff grind. Thats just the first round. If guys can't handle that, they should not be playing on a playoff team.

 

[Twowingcantfly]

We'll see in a month, but it's a really good sign that Marner is having a great season after intense off-season criticism.

Marner has had very good production from day one. His success has nothing to do with criticism received. The knock against him was unwarranted. He has always been a setup type player. If a couple of posters feel he should be scoring more goals on a team like we have here, they obviously have no idea about the game of hockey.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I don't get this sentiment either - he puts up points, he has a nice contract, and is highly skilled? Why wouldn't we get a boat-load for him? It's fear - the what if he goes somewhere else and does better? So be it.

Usually trading a star player for a package, the package still winds up less valuable then the player.

There’s examples of it working, but it’s more likely not to. The cap flexibility might be one of the best part of a deal.

 

[Twowingcantfly]

Huh? AM and MM didn't produce and thats why the Leafs didn't advance. Your best players need to be your best players in the playoffs. Also, they played 7 games, thats hardly playoff grind. Thats just the first round. If guys can't handle that, they should not be playing on a playoff team.

AM and MM have no problem with the playoff grind. The powder puff supporting cast Dubas left us with will not take a hit to make a play, and most definitely do not know what to do after getting face washed, our captain included

 

[francis246]

Florida has been growing. Toronto has been stagnant.

I'm sorry that is a stupid narrative, how has florida been growing? Because they are going to win the division this year? It's the exact same. This division is a toss up, it's the best division in hockey. I don't put much stock into it. The reality is, Florida like the leafs, have been a massive disappointment in the playoffs in recent years. I actually think the Leafs are a better team than Florida. Florida is also cap crunched starting next year.. so it's kind of do or die for their core too or pieces will have to be moved there. Same thing with Colorado.

All I'm saying is people shit on the Leafs core and how much money is being spent on them when in reality, it's a consistent theme across the league. The flat cap is a problem, the craziest part of it is, with the way contracts are going up, Dubas may actually look smart for getting those contracts done at the price point he did. Huberdeau and MacKinnon are both up at the end of next year, those contracts are gonna be crazy.

 

[Dreakmur]

I'm sorry that is a stupid narrative, how has florida been growing? Because they are going to win the division this year? It's the exact same. This division is a toss up, it's the best division in hockey. I don't put much stock into it. The reality is, Florida like the leafs, have been a massive disappointment in the playoffs in recent years. I actually think the Leafs are a better team than Florida. Florida is also cap crunched starting next year.. so it's kind of do or die for their core too or pieces will have to be moved there. Same thing with Colorado.

All I'm saying is people shit on the Leafs core and how much money is being spent on them when in reality, it's a consistent theme across the league. The flat cap is a problem, the craziest part of it is, with the way contracts are going up, Dubas may actually look smart for getting those contracts done at the price point he did. Huberdeau and MacKinnon are both up at the end of next year, those contracts are gonna be crazy.

Florida has gone from 6th to 4th to 5th, to 4th, to 2nd, to 1st in the last 6 years. That's pretty obvious growth.

In that same time, Toronto has gone from 3rd to 3rd to 3rd to 3rd to 1st and back to 3rd again.

 

[francis246]

Florida has gone from 6th to 4th to 5th, to 4th, to 2nd, to 1st in the last 6 years. That's pretty obvious growth.

In that same time, Toronto has gone from 3rd to 3rd to 3rd to 3rd to 1st and back to 3rd again.

lol who cares, they've been bounced in the first round every year as well.

 

[ITM]

I'm actually not so sure about the Red Wings being a great object lesson for that. If anything, the stagnation of a Sergei Fedorov in his 1A/2 role behind Yzerman was interesting to follow. The team was wildly successful but Fedorov had a real hard time recapturing that 1994 personal best which seemed like a runway for greater and greater things. Could probably make a similar point about Malkin/Crosby for that matter.

All kinds of reasons to be sure: If you compare Fedorov's regular season output and his post-season output with his peak production season, the post-season doesn't change but his regular season numbers dip sharply. Same with Yzerman. Remember, shipping Paul Coffey and Keith Primeau out for Shanahan was done having recorded a record regular season and a somewhat (by our modest standards) successful playoffs. That was another intentional part of stepping towards becoming a true champion. And if you look at the regular season wins column next to their subsequent Stanley Cup, it's plain (and was even in the watching of it unfold) that Detroit examined the club's construction against their unmet needs from the previous playoffs.

The team being successful in the playoffs was what mattered. Yzerman could have easily continued to pad his stats. He didn't become a more defensive player out of waning ability, he did it in the realization that in order for the club to be successful (measured only by the Stanley Cup) the change of the culture of the club that he led had to begin with his example.

It's a lesson for any team compiled with star talent. Perhaps reason enough to believe the best of players like Nylander is yet to come?

 

[ITM]

lol who cares, they've been bounced in the first round every year as well.

List the teams that bounced them.

 

[ER89]

Florida has gone from 6th to 4th to 5th, to 4th, to 2nd, to 1st in the last 6 years. That's pretty obvious growth.

In that same time, Toronto has gone from 3rd to 3rd to 3rd to 3rd to 1st and back to 3rd again.

Well as leaf fans we did say we were looking for some consistency

 

[francis246]

List the teams that bounced them.

Lol it’s Tampa and I can’t even remember the other team because they hadn’t made the playoffs in 10 years prior to that. Yet people think they are going to do damage. They have no history of playoff success. The playoffs is all about bounces and luck and taking advantage of mistakes. So to think that Florida has a better chance than Toronto, Boston, Carolina ect is flat out stupid

 

[ITM]

Lol it’s Tampa and I can’t even remember the other team because they hadn’t made the playoffs in 10 years prior to that. Yet people think they are going to do damage. They have no history of playoff success. The playoffs is all about bounces and luck and taking advantage of mistakes. So to think that Florida has a better chance than Toronto, Boston, Carolina ect is flat out stupid

Tampa? From your quote it's either Florida or Toronto. Presumed it was Toronto.