Interesting Info: Part XXII (Jackets-related "tidbits" here)

[majormajor]

My hope is that JK's replacement looks to trade Laine, Severson (contract probably untradeable), in addition to Roslovic and Peeke). Boqvist is a question mark, either way is fine. They can trade Kuraly, Olivier if you want, but they won't bring much. They probably need to move Elvis, but maybe that relationship is salvageable and maybe Elvis is the answer (big maybe) (although trading Elvis will cost assets).

What "more vets than people realize" do they have outside the above trade target list? Werenski, Gudbranson (good role, bad contract), Provorov (who probably gets traded but I'm ok with him staying) and Gaudreau (who if we are honest with the eye test seems to not have any leadership skills or grit to his game, although playing a little better as of late)? I'm not sure there is anyone else.

So you don't trade Boone - not even a close question. Unless he brings a certain top 2 pick (which isn't going to happen). He brings to the table a bunch of what this team needs - some grit, experience and he brings it every night. Whether he is the C or not the C. Whether he is enough of a vocal leader or not. And to top it off, he's productive. Why would CBJ trade that when that's essentially what this younger core needs - good solid productive vets with consistent work habits, not mecurical Laine and maybe not turnover Gaudreau. CBJ doesn't need another middling 1st round pick that may or may not be better than Boone 6 years from now but certainly won't be able to provide the pro's pro mentality that this group needs NOW. The bottom tier (high draft pick) isn't trading for Boone. Playoff teams and bubble teams will trade for him, but they don't have high 1st round picks to give back (and multiple low 1st round picks don't change the equation). We can lament that we wish Foligno was still here as the C, but that doesn't justify jettisoning Boone given the current roster construct and his role in it. Hell, bring Foligno back with Boone (which isn't happening with the recent extension) but why trade Boone for picks that have low chance of producing any player as good and when there is a need for what Boone brings now?
Some seem to think that Boone is the problem for the past 4 years. The problem is that there have not been not enough talented vets with his work ethic.

And the idea that Sillinger, Marchenko, Voronkov and Texier have "ample pro experience already" - um, I will just disagree entirely with that statement without much further comment. They are coming, hard, but they are not the veteran presence needed.

The young guys have to take after our veteran role models, and almost none of our veterans qualify as good role models.

It's Jenner, Danforth, and in my book Werenski. That's it! It should be half the team that are solid veterans playing a structured game that a young guy can fit into.

 

[VT]

Summary of Jarmo’s comments:
Why is CBJ struggling - inability to close games
Admits rebuild is taking longer than he imagined
Fantilli - good, having to go through an adjustment to the schedule, moved to LW for matchups/responsibilty/make his offensive game easier
Voronkov - expected him to be good right away, waited a while for him, his game is better suited for the NA rink, hangs out with Texier a lot (can’t talk to each other though)
Jiricek - earned a spot in the NHL, takes a while to play at NHL pace for D
Fan base - great, hungry for success, still selling out games. Need to earn their trust again
Laine - could be back at the end of the week, hope he is back on the level we expect him to be
Elvis - “lets get back to you being a #1 and playing like a #1”
On players asking out - maybe it’s time to look in the mirror
On TDL - making moves for the long term

Podcasters after Jarmo:
Gaudreau is a perimeter guy, who becomes even more of a perimeter player in the playoffs due to lack of size. It was a mistake to sign him in a rebuild as a core piece.

- - - - bolded is a huge red flag to me

Swedes in thèse teams:

Vancouver Canucks: Nils Höglander, Linus Karlsson, Elias Petersson, Nils Åman
Seattle Krakens: Adam Larsson, André Burakowsky, Alexander Wennberg
St. Luis Blues: Oscar Sundqvist

 

[Cowumbus]

Swedes in thèse teams:

Vancouver Canucks: Nils Höglander, Linus Karlsson, Elias Petersson, Nils Åman
Seattle Krakens: Adam Larsson, André Burakowsky, Alexander Wennberg
St. Luis Blues: Oscar Sundqvist

Either the joke is going over my head, or I don’t get your point?

 

[Derby]

I am listening to Alison Lukan on the NHL Radio Network. She so good as an analyst for the Kraken. What a loss, she was under appreciated here.

 

[VT]

Either the joke is going over my head, or I don’t get your point?

Rasmus Andersson injured Laine in the game against Calgary, William Lagesson injured him against Toronto.

And it was not a joke but cynical irony.

 

[Cowumbus]

i don't think any of the 97.1 guys have the hockey acumen or the interest to pull off a longform hockey chat.

beyond radio guys, well… do we think brian hedger is capable of carrying a conversation for 20 minutes? i don't.

He could talk about stuff we already know for 20 mins maybe!

 

[Cowumbus]

Jackets sent scouts to the Leafs/Jets game.

 

[EspenK]

Jackets sent scouts to the Leafs/Jets game.

Elvis for Samsonov

 

[Forepar]

The young guys have to take after our veteran role models, and almost none of our veterans qualify as good role models.

It's Jenner, Danforth, and in my book Werenski. That's it! It should be half the team that are solid veterans playing a structured game that a young guy can fit into.

Danforth - Agree 100%- for some reason he did not pop in my head!

Werenski - There are days I think he's gold and IS "that" guy. There have been days I don't know what he brings. Talent, no doubt. Having said that, there also was no doubt his entire game, confidence, leadership seemed to be coming to a new level before the latest injury. Maybe that is the only (but big) doubt in my mind - can he stay on the ice? Let's hope so.

You left Gaudreau off your list of three vets, so that alone says much about your view. Do you have more detailed thoughts about Gaudreau in the context of this thread?

From my perspective, sometimes I think Gaudreau's too talented for his linemates (would be a good problem in the long run as the young talent keeps progressing). Sometimes I think he's too talented in his own mind (*not meaning conceited, but in terms of some of the plays he attempts that wouldn't work even if Gretzky and Crosby were on his line). To Gaudreau's credit, he plays defense better than I give him credit for (at least backchecks). But the persistent turnovers (lack of structure?) and the somewhat disengaged personality have me wondering how he fits the needs of this team for the next 3-4 years, given the rebuild is still seasons from completion. I don't know that he has the makeup to soldier through several seasons as a veteran/ role model that drags the young ones along with no playoffs in sight. It may be that he is elite when his team is good, but struggles to find his place if his team is struggling. At the time of his signing, I was thinking (more from statistical production than eye-ball observation) that he would be a Panarin type player, maybe even Panarin+ type player. Instead, what I see is Gaudreau being a much more perimeter-focused, less-structured, less engaged/engaging version of Panarin. Maybe that's more about his subdued personality and smaller size --- and maybe that's ok. And/or maybe it's just that my expectations were too high from the outset? I don't think he's started a downward slide in speed/skills - yet. But something seems not quite right with his current and near-future role on this team. Not egregiously so, but off.
Your take?

 

[cbjthrowaway]

My hope is that JK's replacement looks to trade Laine, Severson (contract probably untradeable), in addition to Roslovic and Peeke). Boqvist is a question mark, either way is fine. They can trade Kuraly, Olivier if you want, but they won't bring much. They probably need to move Elvis, but maybe that relationship is salvageable and maybe Elvis is the answer (big maybe) (although trading Elvis will cost assets).

here's the thing, though:

• laine: hard to move, also they have apparently listened to offers for him at times
• severson: as you said, very hard to move
• roslovic: current FO has been shopping him for over a year
• peeke: current FO has been shopping him for over a year
• boqvist: current FO has definitely shopped him
• kuraly: minimal return
• olivier: minimal return
• elvis: not tradeable

everyone wants a new FO, but everyone only wants them to move players who the current FO has either 1) tried to move only to find no market (peeke, elvis), 2) plan on moving (roslovic) or 3) can't move (severson, laine).

why would a prospective GM come in and decide to simply continue this path? (they wouldn't).

a new FO would likely make major changes. there are certainly players who i'd want them to keep, but the only one i can say with 100% confidence i can say no new FO would consider moving is fantilli.

 

[Doggy]

here's the thing, though:

• laine: hard to move, also they have apparently listened to offers for him at times
• severson: as you said, very hard to move
• roslovic: current FO has been shopping him for over a year
• peeke: current FO has been shopping him for over a year
• boqvist: current FO has definitely shopped him
• kuraly: minimal return
• olivier: minimal return
• elvis: not tradeable

everyone wants a new FO, but everyone only wants them to move players who the current FO has either 1) tried to move only to find no market (peeke, elvis), 2) plan on moving (roslovic) or 3) can't move (severson, laine).

why would a prospective GM come in and decide to simply continue this path? (they wouldn't).

a new FO would likely make major changes. there are certainly players who i'd want them to keep, but the only one i can say with 100% confidence i can say no new FO would consider moving is fantilli.

Sorry, I have a poor memory. Remind me who committed the CBJ to these contracts you are saying are essentially immovable?

And I don't see the salary cap as an excuse because every good GM would have seen the cap wasn't going to go up for several years once the pandemic hit 2021. Like a drunken sailor, Jarmo spent too much money on the ugly girls hanging out by the port and when he finally got uptown where the good looking girls were he had no more money to spend and nobody willing to take the ugly ones off his hands.

This is poor resource management which is EXACTLY what a GM is supposed to do...manage his resources effectively.

 

[majormajor]

Danforth - Agree 100%- for some reason he did not pop in my head!

Werenski - There are days I think he's gold and IS "that" guy. There have been days I don't know what he brings. Talent, no doubt. Having said that, there also was no doubt his entire game, confidence, leadership seemed to be coming to a new level before the latest injury. Maybe that is the only (but big) doubt in my mind - can he stay on the ice? Let's hope so.

You left Gaudreau off your list of three vets, so that alone says much about your view. Do you have more detailed thoughts about Gaudreau in the context of this thread?

From my perspective, sometimes I think Gaudreau's too talented for his linemates (would be a good problem in the long run as the young talent keeps progressing). Sometimes I think he's too talented in his own mind (*not meaning conceited, but in terms of some of the plays he attempts that wouldn't work even if Gretzky and Crosby were on his line). To Gaudreau's credit, he plays defense better than I give him credit for (at least backchecks). But the persistent turnovers (lack of structure?) and the somewhat disengaged personality have me wondering how he fits the needs of this team for the next 3-4 years, given the rebuild is still seasons from completion. I don't know that he has the makeup to soldier through several seasons as a veteran/ role model that drags the young ones along with no playoffs in sight. It may be that he is elite when his team is good, but struggles to find his place if his team is struggling. At the time of his signing, I was thinking (more from statistical production than eye-ball observation) that he would be a Panarin type player, maybe even Panarin+ type player. Instead, what I see is Gaudreau being a much more perimeter-focused, less-structured, less engaged/engaging version of Panarin. Maybe that's more about his subdued personality and smaller size --- and maybe that's ok. And/or maybe it's just that my expectations were too high from the outset? I don't think he's started a downward slide in speed/skills - yet. But something seems not quite right with his current and near-future role on this team. Not egregiously so, but off.
Your take?

Werenski was absolutely flying in the weeks before his latest injury. He had finally got his groove back (remember how long it took Gus after he lost a year). Returning to our topic - the fact that he isn't playing means he also isn't one of those solid veterans we were talking about.

I really like Gaudreau. He's not Panarin. Panarin is a unit. A small unit, but a unit. Gaudreau is just small, built like your kid brother. Most players his size are out of the league with injuries by the time they're 30. Gaudreau has to play in a contact averse way to survive out there. Unfortunately that makes him a less useful player for our young players to take after.

As for how he fits long term, I don't know. Johnny was much more talented than his linemates almost every year in Calgary, that part isn't new. Maybe he'll be a good topline fit next to Fantilli after he break out, but KJ can also do that and Johnny at this later stage might be better suited to play on a second line after them that can get easier matchups. I like the fit with Sillinger and Chinakhov right now. Jenner and Marchenko was another good one.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Sorry, I have a poor memory. Remind me who committed the CBJ to these contracts you are saying are essentially immovable?

And I don't see the salary cap as an excuse because every good GM would have seen the cap wasn't going to go up for several years once the pandemic hit 2021. Like a drunken sailor, Jarmo spent too much money on the ugly girls hanging out by the port and when he finally got uptown where the good looking girls were he had no more money to spend and nobody willing to take the ugly ones off his hands.

This is poor resource management which is EXACTLY what a GM is supposed to do...manage his resources effectively.

i'm not disagreeing with this – jarmo is the reason for these contracts being in place.

what i'm saying is that people here simultaneously want jarmo gone but also want his hypothetical successor to make minimal changes and/or do the things that jarmo is already trying to do.

my point is that there's no point in an external hire if you're not going to trust them to implement a new vision/direction. if that's the case, just promote josh flynn or rick nash.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Sorry, I have a poor memory. Remind me who committed the CBJ to these contracts you are saying are essentially immovable?

And I don't see the salary cap as an excuse because every good GM would have seen the cap wasn't going to go up for several years once the pandemic hit 2021. Like a drunken sailor, Jarmo spent too much money on the ugly girls hanging out by the port and when he finally got uptown where the good looking girls were he had no more money to spend and nobody willing to take the ugly ones off his hands.

This is poor resource management which is EXACTLY what a GM is supposed to do...manage his resources effectively.

Job security by creating a mess so big nobody can undo it.

Genius.

 

[koteka]

Job security by creating a mess so big nobody can undo it.

Genius.

Jarmo coming up with his plan:

 

[Viqsi]

We already have plenty of threads for complaining about Kekalainen. This does not need to be another one.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

We already have plenty of threads for complaining about Kekalainen. This does not need to be another one.

Well what else are we supposed to talk about?

 

[Viqsi]

Well what else are we supposed to talk about?

Don't oblige me to enforce it.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Don't oblige me to enforce it.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Well what else are we supposed to talk about?

Nonetheless. If there’s only one thing to talk about, use the thread dedicated to that thing.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Nonetheless. If there’s only one thing to talk about, use the thread dedicated to that thing.

I've yet to ever see any discussion here stay on topic.

Sure, its fun principle to believe in but everybody has conversations and sometimes those conversation lead directions that don't cause harm to anyone. I think most of us here are adults who can have adult conversation but I'm pretty sure it is virtually impossible to strictly organize human conversations like the dewey decimal system.

I could go on but it has nothing to do with the topic.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I've yet to ever see any discussion here stay on topic.

Sure, its fun principle to believe in but everybody has conversations and sometimes those conversation lead directions that don't cause harm to anyone. I think most of us here are adults who can have adult conversation but I'm pretty sure it is virtually impossible to strictly organize human conversations like the dewey decimal system.

I could go on but it has nothing to do with the topic.

I don't disagree - which should come to no surprise to anyone, as I've been moderating these forums for like 15 years now.

The point is not only are there places where certain topics are actively being discussed, it's also nice to have certain places where they're not, to allow room for other topics. It just gets extra shitty when the team is shitty too.

 

[NotWendell]

Don't oblige me to enforce it.

Don't forget, she's got a flamethrower.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

 

[koteka]

Herbie misses PLD and Josh Anderson. Hahahahaha!