Interesting Info: Part XXII (Jackets-related "tidbits" here)

[VT]

If they are true and Voronkov is the 1C I will prepare for a long exhausting season. I like the guy, we've all been excited for him for awhile now but putting that level of expectation on a guy not even challenging that role on his current team is setting yourself up for disappointment. Also a good way for a fanbase to turn on a player for not meeting the crazy expectations they decided to put on him.

I expect a capable 3C and if he proves to be better noone will be upset.

Edit: Same goes for Danforth. Great high effort player but compete only carries you so far. Its fine to juggle lines and move those guys around to spark players but they are by no means long term 1C capable players.

Danforth is a max the 3rd line player and even that's not a fact. But Voronkov, if he gets his center habits back, can play between Gaudreau and Laine. They don't need a star, they need someone to work on them. Of course, the player can't be a log and has to play at NHL pace. Sillinger is another option, but I think he's up in two seasons or so, though I'd like to be wrong.
Back to Dima. Voronkov is better than Jenner. The other thing is that Boone is going to play in the top 6 whether anyone likes it or not.
Oh, and let's not forget the possibility of Johnson playing center. So everything can be completely different.

 

[Xoggz22]

Then you basically have to draft those positions.

Superstars get 10+ today, the best ones 12+.

Getting a legit elite top6 C will mean atleast 8M from the market

I think "elite top 6 C" is a little much don't you? There is nothing elite about being top 6 in the NHL. Horvat is a very good top 6 C, he's not elite. We throw the word around too much these days. elite is the best of the best. That's not Horvat. It's not Larkin. It is McDavid. It is Crosby. They are elite. Now if we want to break down an elite talent within a skill set...fine, but let's not lump the full player into such a lofty category. Laine is considered an elite shot, not an elite player, for example. I don't know that Horvat has an elite skill but his overall package was going to get him $8MM + on the open market. It is what happens for free agents.

I full agree with you that you have to draft these players. The center position seems extremely elusive for this club. Maybe this is the year and in 3 years we'll have either an elite level player or at least a star 1C.

 

[stevo61]

Danforth is a max the 3rd line player and even that's not a fact. But Voronkov, if he gets his center habits back, can play between Gaudreau and Laine. They don't need a star, they need someone to work on them. Of course, the player can't be a log and has to play at NHL pace. Sillinger is another option, but I think he's up in two seasons or so, though I'd like to be wrong.
Back to Dima. Voronkov is better than Jenner. The other thing is that Boone is going to play in the top 6 whether anyone likes it or not.
Oh, and let's not forget the possibility of Johnson playing center. So everything can be completely different.

I dont even think the solution is find a center for Gaudreau-Laine, I think its find one for Gaudreau and for Laine. Kind of like:
Gaudreau-1C-Marchenko
Chinakhov-Johnson-Laine or
Johnson-Jenner-Laine

 

[Jovavic]

Some of the best lines in recent history have been elite wingers with a center of lower caliber, Naslund-Morrison-Bertuzzi springs to mind. It obviously works the other way with Tkachuk-Lindholm-Gaudeau where all three are relatively close to each other skill wise, but getting an elite center isn't required to have them unlock their highest level here, just the right one and maybe Voronkov gets a shot and he clicks with one or both of them.

 

[stevo61]

Some of the best lines in recent history have been elite wingers with a center of lower caliber, Naslund-Morrison-Bertuzzi springs to mind. It obviously works the other way with Tkachuk-Lindholm-Gaudeau where all three are relatively close to each other skill wise, but getting an elite center isn't required to have them unlock their highest level here, just the right one and maybe Voronkov gets a shot and he clicks with one or both of them.

And those teams with that type of center generally have a hard time getting to the ultimate prize.

 

[VT]

I dont even think the solution is find a center for Gaudreau-Laine, I think its find one for Gaudreau and for Laine. Kind of like:
Gaudreau-1C-Marchenko
Chinakhov-Johnson-Laine or
Johnson-Jenner-Laine

I have always written that I prefer Chinakhov and Laine together. Besides Laine has good chemistry with Johnson. Also I would like to see Gaudreau with Marchenko (but as one game showed, Jenner can't be a center) what I wrote too. But be honestly:

1. Larsen or another coach will connect Gaudreau and Laine together.
2. Boone will always be in TOP 6.
3. Sillinger will play maximum in TOP 9, maybe even in TOP 6.

It's the reason my lines. Although maybe Voronkov can change Jenner later.

 

[majormajor]

People talk like removing Jenner from center is a near term priority. We actually do fine with Jenner on the ice. Long term we need to upgrade there but the near term needs are to upgrade on what we're getting from Sillinger and Roslovic. That's where we are getting killed. If our center lineup next year is

Jenner
KJ
Fantilli
Kuraly/Voronkov
(Include Sillinger only if he takes a big step up)

That's a center group that isn't holding us back from getting back into the playoffs.

What would more likely hold us back is the defense.

Some of the best lines in recent history have been elite wingers with a center of lower caliber, Naslund-Morrison-Bertuzzi springs to mind. It obviously works the other way with Tkachuk-Lindholm-Gaudeau where all three are relatively close to each other skill wise, but getting an elite center isn't required to have them unlock their highest level here, just the right one and maybe Voronkov gets a shot and he clicks with one or both of them.

I agree with the general idea but people sometimes forget how good a player like Brendan Morrison was. There's not much chance that Voronkov, who is just coming off a very long scoring drought in a weakened KHL, is going to be even close to that level. I think Voronkov will be useful but he might be more of a 4th liner than 3rd even. Third lines in today's NHL are scoring lines.

 

[CBJx614]

People talk like removing Jenner from center is a near term priority. We actually do fine with Jenner on the ice. Long term we need to upgrade there but the near term needs are to upgrade on what we're getting from Sillinger and Roslovic. That's where we are getting killed. If our center lineup next year is

Jenner
KJ
Fantilli
Kuraly/Voronkov
(Include Sillinger only if he takes a big step up)

That's a center group that isn't holding us back from getting back into the playoffs.

What would more likely hold us back is the defense.



I agree with the general idea but people sometimes forget how good a player like Brendan Morrison was. There's not much chance that Voronkov, who is just coming off a very long scoring drought in a weakened KHL, is going to be even close to that level. I think Voronkov will be useful but he might be more of a 4th liner than 3rd even. Third lines in today's NHL are scoring lines.

I think Voronkov will be a great 3C for the team, he would be a massive step up from Sillinger while bringing both scoring and physical upside. I'm hoping for a 23 yo version of Kuraly with hopefully a little more skill.

 

[majormajor]

I think Voronkov will be a great 3C for the team, he would be a massive step up from Sillinger while bringing both scoring and physical upside. I'm hoping for a 23 yo version of Kuraly with hopefully a little more skill.

A great 3C would have to be significantly better than a younger Kuraly, who was never good enough to be a 3C. Could easily be a big upgrade on teenage Sillinger though.

 

[stevo61]

People talk like removing Jenner from center is a near term priority. We actually do fine with Jenner on the ice. Long term we need to upgrade there but the near term needs are to upgrade on what we're getting from Sillinger and Roslovic. That's where we are getting killed. If our center lineup next year is

Jenner
KJ
Fantilli
Kuraly/Voronkov
(Include Sillinger only if he takes a big step up)

That's a center group that isn't holding us back from getting back into the playoffs.

What would more likely hold us back is the defense.



I agree with the general idea but people sometimes forget how good a player like Brendan Morrison was. There's not much chance that Voronkov, who is just coming off a very long scoring drought in a weakened KHL, is going to be even close to that level. I think Voronkov will be useful but he might be more of a 4th liner than 3rd even. Third lines in today's NHL are scoring lines.

Morrison was pretty good but obviously below the top centers on the contenders of that day. Mostly what I remember about Morrison was the muffin of a shot he had

Just to add to the discussion and not make a new post, if I were to think of a line without a typical 1C you could even stay in that same era. The A line for NJ was apretty big deal for a few years. But it was a different time and we all know what made NJ a Stanley Cup contender back in those days.

Also for the record Im not in a hurry to get Boone out of the center position but long term its an obvious goal. If we get Carlsson or Fantilli he stays the 1C for atleast a year. If we get Bedard I could easily see the team making multiple scoring lines including possibly Johnson-Jenner-Laine which Ive suggested many times

 

[BB88]

I think "elite top 6 C" is a little much don't you? There is nothing elite about being top 6 in the NHL. Horvat is a very good top 6 C, he's not elite. We throw the word around too much these days. elite is the best of the best. That's not Horvat. It's not Larkin. It is McDavid. It is Crosby. They are elite. Now if we want to break down an elite talent within a skill set...fine, but let's not lump the full player into such a lofty category. Laine is considered an elite shot, not an elite player, for example. I don't know that Horvat has an elite skill but his overall package was going to get him $8MM + on the open market. It is what happens for free agents.

I full agree with you that you have to draft these players. The center position seems extremely elusive for this club. Maybe this is the year and in 3 years we'll have either an elite level player or at least a star 1C.

Saying elite top6 doesn’t mean McDavid.

It’s like saying Krejci was/is a legit elite top6C= elite 2C.
There are tiers to 2C’s in these leagues.

When I say an elite top6C I’m talking about a player I’d feel confident about as the 2C on a top tier contender.
Player who gives you a match up advantage on majority of game nights.

Krejci is a great example for that, not an elite 1C but absolutely an elite 2C, so an elite top6C to me.

Maybe it’s just me but that’s stuck on me from years of Boston talk.

 

[VT]

People talk like removing Jenner from center is a near term priority. We actually do fine with Jenner on the ice. Long term we need to upgrade there but the near term needs are to upgrade on what we're getting from Sillinger and Roslovic. That's where we are getting killed. If our center lineup next year is

Jenner
KJ
Fantilli
Kuraly/Voronkov
(Include Sillinger only if he takes a big step up)

That's a center group that isn't holding us back from getting back into the playoffs.

What would more likely hold us back is the defense.



I agree with the general idea but people sometimes forget how good a player like Brendan Morrison was. There's not much chance that Voronkov, who is just coming off a very long scoring drought in a weakened KHL, is going to be even close to that level. I think Voronkov will be useful but he might be more of a 4th liner than 3rd even. Third lines in today's NHL are scoring lines.

But it isn't right, Voronkov has scored. He is one of the best players in Ak Bars.

 

[thebus88]

But it isn't right, Voronkov has scored. He is one of the best players in Ak Bars.

Do you not understand how Jenner would look and how many points he would put up in the KHL??

 

[Xoggz22]

Saying elite top6 doesn’t mean McDavid.

It’s like saying Krejci was/is a legit elite top6C= elite 2C.
There are tiers to 2C’s in these leagues.

When I say an elite top6C I’m talking about a player I’d feel confident about as the 2C on a top tier contender.
Player who gives you a match up advantage on majority of game nights.

Krejci is a great example for that, not an elite 1C but absolutely an elite 2C, so an elite top6C to me.

Maybe it’s just me but that’s stuck on me from years of Boston talk.

I get it but is an "elite 2C" not a good 1C? I just reserve the term elite to mean something special. Top notch. I don't personally equate this to anything below the cream of the crop NHL players. Malkin was elite as was Crosby and if both were playing C, one had to be a 2C but I wouldn't call either one of them an elite 2C. They would simply be elite players to me. Just the way I see it. I don't see Horvat as elite at anything and just don't subscribe to the elite lower in the lineup players. Just an opinion

 

[VT]

Do you not understand how Jenner would look and how many points he would put up in the KHL??

Voronkov is 22 years. And now. How many points had Marchenko in the KHL?

 

[Cowumbus]

Voronkov is 22 years. And now. How many points had Marchenko in the KHL?

Marchenko had 28Pts in 41GP two years ago, 20Pts in 39GP last year.

Voronkov 23Pts in 47GP.

Hard to tell with KHL. Radulov leads AK Bars in points but was BAD his last season in the NHL.

I get it but is an "elite 2C" not a good 1C? I just reserve the term elite to mean something special. Top notch. I don't personally equate this to anything below the cream of the crop NHL players. Malkin was elite as was Crosby and if both were playing C, one had to be a 2C but I wouldn't call either one of them an elite 2C. They would simply be elite players to me. Just the way I see it. I don't see Horvat as elite at anything and just don't subscribe to the elite lower in the lineup players. Just an opinion

Elite 4C Alex Wennberg

 

[Fro]

Need to take into account how few minutes Marchenko got last year

 

[Cowumbus]

Need to take into account how few minutes Marchenko got last year

Yes this is true. I was going to point that out, but I truly don’t know how much Voronkov is playing this year either.

ESPN+ no longer shows KHL so I have not been watching enough to say whether he is getting the “American” treatment yet.

 

[Fro]

Yes this is true. I was going to point that out, but I truly don’t know how much Voronkov is playing this year either.

ESPN+ no longer shows KHL so I have not been watching enough to say whether he is getting the “American” treatment yet.

He's getting mostly top line minutes still

 

[VT]

Marchenko had 28Pts in 41GP two years ago, 20Pts in 39GP last year.

Voronkov 23Pts in 47GP.

Hard to tell with KHL. Radulov leads AK Bars in points but was BAD his last season in the NHL.


Elite 4C Alex Wennberg

Marchenko played in SKA, Voronkov in Ak Bars. Two different styles if only about them. Also Dima was injured this season. And don't forget his excellent play in play-off. You know, KHL is specific and you can't always judging players by stats. Especially if they play in SKA.

 

[thebus88]

Marchenko played in SKA, Voronkov in Ak Bars. Two different styles if only about them. Also Dima was injured this season. And don't forget his excellent play in play-off. You know, KHL is specific and you can't always judging players by stats. Especially if they play in SKA.

Ignoring the unnecessary “jabs” or comments about Jenner, or the comparison to Marchenko, the problem is you’re saying Voronkov can come over and could be a 1C in the NHL.

What is the list of players that have come over from the KHL, or any other “overseas” league, and played well on the top line in the NHL, let alone as a CENTER, on a terrible team.

Going back to Jenner vs Voronkov, if you are talking 3-4-5 years down the line, maybe. MAYBE he’s a better option as a center in the NHL. Next year or 2, ZERO chance.

I think it’s more probable and would be better for the team if Voronkov ended up with Gaudreau/Jenner on the top line, instead of him filling in for Jenner.

 

[ThirdPeriodTurtle]

What is the list of players that have come over from the KHL, or any other “overseas” league, and played well on the top line in the NHL, let alone as a CENTER, on a terrible team.

Kirill Kaprizov is one - after his rookie KHL season he had four PPG seasons in KHL before coming over (and has been a PPG/PPG+ player for the Wild now). So it can happen but Voronkov's (or Marchenko's) points don't really look the same as Kaprizov's did.

But otherwise I agree, I doubt Voronkov would come over as smoothly as Kaprizov did and immediately become a 1C/2C or a PPG player. I've only seen some of his clips and he looks alright. If VT says he can be better than Marchenko then that's awesome, let's hope so!

 

[Cowumbus]

Ignoring the unnecessary “jabs” or comments about Jenner, or the comparison to Marchenko, the problem is you’re saying Voronkov can come over and could be a 1C in the NHL.

What is the list of players that have come over from the KHL, or any other “overseas” league, and played well on the top line in the NHL, let alone as a CENTER, on a terrible team.

Going back to Jenner vs Voronkov, if you are talking 3-4-5 years down the line, maybe. MAYBE he’s a better option as a center in the NHL. Next year or 2, ZERO chance.

I think it’s more probable and would be better for the team if Voronkov ended up with Gaudreau/Jenner on the top line, instead of him filling in for Jenner.

I think it’s more probable that he does not make the team, than ends up on the top line.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Voronkov is a third or fourth liner in the NHL. I don’t know what all the fuss is about

 

[CBJx614]

Voronkov is a third or fourth liner in the NHL. I don’t know what all the fuss is about

Because we are in short supply of players like that and we need skilled 3rd line centers not just guys like kuraly who can fill in here or there.