Interesting Info: Part XXII (Jackets-related "tidbits" here)

[tunnelvision]

just because they're not writing about it doesn't mean it's not happening. a cursory google search showed that he trained with tanner jeannot this offseason in regina.

I found the article and watched the video. Nobody talked about skating drills or coaches. The practice environment was just a normal rink with a bunch of guys slaloming through some hockey gadgetry and shooting pucks on an open net. Not writing about it doesn't mean it's happening either.

i'm sure the NHL player with the NHL father knows that he needs to fix his skating to be a good NHL player. i'm sure he's been working on it and will continue to work on it. but there's not a magic bullet that will fix it overnight, we're dealing with muscle memory here.

Mike played in a much slower era. Rychel for example never developed his skating to a good enough level despite his father's NHL career. I'm not expecting improvements to happen in a snap of a finger, I want to hear long-term commitment to work on it specifically so that in 2-4 years he can actually become a core piece of the team that Jarmo might think he already is.

 

[DarkandStormy]

The Blue Jackets have lost 17 times this season.

-1 SO
-1 OTL
-15 in regulation: one loss by a goal, two losses by two goals, and *12* losses by 3+ goals

 

[BB88]

Doesn't seem like things are off to a good start in that direction...

That’s going to drop all the contenders on Horvat on July 1st market.

I’ll say it again.
Columbus best chance is by far in the summer and Horvat can really overplay his cards here

 

[ColumbusTrill]

From this athletic report today: What we're hearing about the Canucks' rejected offer to Bo Horvat and more

The club has not, to this point, granted permission to Horvat’s agent to discuss a possible extension with clubs interested in trading for Horvat. Considering the volume of expected interest in Horvat — who is a face-off specialist, power-play ace and lethal goal scorer — it’s likely such permission won’t be granted at all. That means that Horvat is likely to be dealt as a pure rental.

Good thing for us imo. If I were Horvat I would not be in a rush to sign with the team I'm traded to, especially after how things have gone in Vancouver. If he feels like we're the best fit just sign him in the offseason. No reason to burn assets to maybe sign him

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Good thing for us imo. If I were Horvat I would not be in a rush to sign with the team I'm traded to, especially after how things have gone in Vancouver. If he feels like we're the best fit just sign him in the offseason. No reason to burn assets to maybe sign him

IMO that's a terrible decision by Vancouver.

Dealing him as a pure rental limits his market to contenders only. Allowing him to negotiate an extension opens the door for bad teams (who presumably have more assets to give, i.e. CBJ) to get in the bidding and drive the price up.

 

[ColumbusTrill]

IMO that's a terrible decision by Vancouver.

Dealing him as a pure rental limits his market to contenders only. Allowing him to negotiate an extension opens the door for bad teams (who presumably have more assets to give, i.e. CBJ) to get in the bidding and drive the price up.

Don't disagree at all. It's just if I'm Horvat why would I want to sign long term with a bad team in the middle of the season when he's been stuck on a mediocre one his whole career?

 

[CBJx614]

To Horvat, he's an overrated player, not the 1th line center and I don't any reason to get him. We have Johnson, the next draft has many strong centers (I hope Jarmo won't draft Michkov or Šalé), Sillinger could progress, if not the ideal 3th line center.

Relying on young centers to develop is a recipe for disaster. We need quality veterans as well, Horvat could make for a perfect stop gap at 1C until the kids are ready, plays 3-4 years as the scoring 2C and if things go right, the final 2ish years he's probably paid as an overpaid 3C. But that means that either

A) our prospects have developed as hoped and pushed him down the lineup

Or the less desirable option...

B) he's regressed majorly and we f***ed up royally and are looking to buyout his 2 final years.

By this point guys like kuraly are long gone and hopefully guys like Voronkov have established themselves in the NHL.

 

[CBJx614]

Don't disagree at all. It's just if I'm Horvat why would I want to sign long term with a bad team in the middle of the season when he's been stuck on a mediocre one his whole career?

Ask Seth Jones that question

 

[ColumbusTrill]

Ask Seth Jones that question

I don't think people saw coming how bad Chicago would be last year

 

[CBJx614]

I don't think people saw coming how bad Chicago would be last year

The hawks haven't finished a season with more than 85 points since 2016/2017.

They haven't been good for awhile.

 

[majormajor]

That’s going to drop all the contenders on Horvat on July 1st market.

I’ll say it again.
Columbus best chance is by far in the summer and Horvat can really overplay his cards here

I agree, we should wait until summer and check the market then. It could work in our favor and spare us an ugly overpay.

Don't disagree at all. It's just if I'm Horvat why would I want to sign long term with a bad team in the middle of the season when he's been stuck on a mediocre one his whole career?

Yes it's very unlikely he wants to come to Columbus during the miserable season.

If he is interested in going to Columbus it would likely be in the summer when we can credibly turn this boat around.

The hawks haven't finished a season with more than 85 points since 2016/2017.

They haven't been good for awhile.

Rightly or not, a lot of folks thought the Hawks were ready to take a step and compete.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

With what money do people think Horvat would sign here? If there is any chance Voracek will come back we can't spend that money.

 

[stevo61]

With what money do people think Horvat would sign here? If there is any chance Voracek will come back we can't spend that money.

5.5 from Nyquist is a pretty good start. Then any number of trades could get whats needed. Bean/Boqvist/Roslovic

 

[ViD]

Beyond that, with some lottery luck, we could have something like:

Gaudreau - Fantilli - Chinakhov
Johnson - Horvat - Laine
Jenner - Sillinger - Marchenko
Texier - Kuraly - Danforth

…which would be a NASTY forward group.

That does look great, I will be content with Olivier replacing Texier in the lineup

 

[I3LI3]

not only should we not be giving up on sillinger, he should be considered untouchable in any trade talks.

people need to remember that:
- the only younger full-time NHL player right now is slafkovsky, who just went 1-1.
- cole has a (very) late birthday for his draft year
- he'll be 19 all season; kent johnson turned 20 two months ago
- progress isn't linear

there are only two other 19-year-olds from his draft class who are full-time NHL players: dylan guenther and wyatt johnston. cole is (as stated above) younger than both.

guenther's current pace would put him at 23 even strength points over a full season. johnston's would put him at 28. those are good for 19-year-old rookies.

neither is as good as cole's 29 EV points last year, as an 18-year-old. his shooting percentage last year (10.8%) was also lower than guenther (11.8%) and johnston (13.5%) this year.

while his 5 points in 27 games is disappointing, he had a stretch last year where he had 7 points in 27 games. the next game, he had a hat trick. he was really streaky last year. he'll go on a heater this season once he gets a shot in the top six.

also worth noting that his shooting percentage this year (5.4%) is unsustainably low right now. the lack of a veteran playmaker on his line is hurting his game (which is a direct, go-to-the-net game). he played a lot last year with bjorkstrand and voracek and domi. this year he's played a lot with young guys, including big minutes with foudy/TFW, who aren't going to help him produce at all.

he still has #1 center potential IMO (albeit more in the horvat north-south vein) and a really good chance to get there. he has the build, hands, shot and compete level to do that, it's just a matter of his vision and skating catching up. both will come in time.

I appreciate all the insight and stat digging (i’m a huge stat digger too) but I have to absolutely disagree on two opinions of your’s here.

1.) I do not think cole should be labeled untouchable. if we’re ever to acquire someone elite again, cole would absolutely be a huge asset to include.

2.) I do not think he will ever become a 1C… atleast not for our franchise. I was huuuge on drafting silli but i’m not seeing the same potential that you see in him now.

to each their own.

 

[majormajor]

I'm not keen on trading Sillinger either.

I don't care to rush prospects or rush expectations for prospects, to the point that I'm fine if we forget about them for a couple years until they mature.

What I don't tolerate well, and what irks me with Sillinger's case, is when a prospect is repeatedly put in a position to fail and not given the best program for their particular needs.

 

[BB88]

I agree, we should wait until summer and check the market then. It could work in our favor and spare us an ugly overpay.



Yes it's very unlikely he wants to come to Columbus during the miserable season.

If he is interested in going to Columbus it would likely be in the summer when we can credibly turn this boat around.



Rightly or not, a lot of folks thought the Hawks were ready to take a step and compete.

Boston is screaming for 1C but Pasta contract and flat cap will make it extremely difficult.
The Gm hasn’t been great with the cap either so that doesn’t help.

Carolina is in a major need for legit 2C but don’t know how they could afford it.
Colorado needs a legit 2C but not a chance.

So enter Columbus on July 1.
Deep prospect pool with another top pick.
Gaudreau, Laine, Werenski in their prime.

That’s Columbus best chance when Horvat has the time to go through teams properly

Ask Seth Jones that question

Seth Jones didn’t give up on a Cup run

 

[CBJx614]

Boston is screaming for 1C but Pasta contract and flat cap will make it extremely difficult.
The Gm hasn’t been great with the cap either so that doesn’t help.

Carolina is in a major need for legit 2C but don’t know how they could afford it.
Colorado needs a legit 2C but not a chance.

So enter Columbus on July 1.
Deep prospect pool with another top pick.
Gaudreau, Laine, Werenski in their prime.

That’s Columbus best chance when Horvat has the time to go through teams properly



Seth Jones didn’t give up on a Cup run

Show me where Horvat has said he wants to go to contender. You keep saying this but it's nothing but pure speculation. As others have said, apparently Jones didn't think he was going to a rebuilding team. So how we view teams as fans aren't the same way players do.

 

[BB88]

Show me where Horvat has said he wants to go to contender. You keep saying this but it's nothing but pure speculation. As others have said, apparently Jones didn't think he was going to a rebuilding team. So how we view teams as fans aren't the same way players do.

I’m almost lost with this post, as is this serious.

You don’t think Horvat or his agent would look at the standings and see Columbus being 3rd last in the league/last place in the East?

You don’t think Horvat has any desire to play in the playoffs? If so why would you want to add a player like that?

Why would he want to go to a contender?
He’s 27y and has never had a true chance to compete at the Cup. About all the contenders will make a call for him so he’s going to ignore them all to sign an extension with a quaranteed non playoff team?


Columbus best chance is in the summer and at cap will only help them

 

[majormajor]

I’m almost lost with this post, as is this serious.

You don’t think Horvat or his agent would look at the standings and see Columbus being 3rd last in the league/last place in the East?

You don’t think Horvat has any desire to play in the playoffs? If so why would you want to add a player like that?

Why would he want to go to a contender?
He’s 27y and has never had a true chance to compete at the Cup. About all the contenders will make a call for him so he’s going to ignore them all to sign an extension with a quaranteed non playoff team?


Columbus best chance is in the summer and at cap will only help them

I believe there is a world where Horvat wants to go to Columbus but in that case he would still never want to go in the midst of this year. Are we forgetting how miserable this team is?

He said recently that being the captain of a team that regularly gets booed off the ice has been really hard on him. This year's Jackets would be a little too familiar in that respect.

 

[BB88]

I believe there is a world where Horvat wants to go to Columbus but in that case he would still never want to go in the midst of this year. Are we forgetting how miserable this team is?

He said recently that being the captain of a team that regularly gets booed off the ice has been really hard on him. This year's Jackets would be a little too familiar in that respect.

Absolutely Horvat should have intrest in Columbus, just not right now as you say.

- There’s a clear need/spot for a top6 C
- Gaudreu, Laine, Johnson to play with
- one of the deepest prospect pools and maybe the top prospect pool after next draft
- money to pay him

He just has about zero reasons to give up on a run to sign with a bottom feeder(not an insult, just a fact) with zero chances at playoffs. & I would expect a long season for the team.

Boston/Carolina/Colorado are top 3 of top5 contenders in the league and with a clear need/looking to add more

 

[Cowumbus]

5.5 from Nyquist is a pretty good start.

I’m not convinced that Jarmo doesn’t re-sign him.

Then any number of trades could get whats needed. Bean/Boqvist/Roslovic

Hopefully

Though if Gavrikov stays that money will need to be taken into account as well.

I believe there is a world where Horvat wants to go to Columbus but in that case he would still never want to go in the midst of this year. Are we forgetting how miserable this team is?

In a world where Horvat would come to Columbus, why would we spend any assets to get him when we could get him in free agency?

If he says he would play here, just wait. Not only do we save prospects/picks, but we don’t have to sign him to an 8 year contract.

 

[VT]

Relying on young centers to develop is a recipe for disaster. We need quality veterans as well, Horvat could make for a perfect stop gap at 1C until the kids are ready, plays 3-4 years as the scoring 2C and if things go right, the final 2ish years he's probably paid as an overpaid 3C. But that means that either

A) our prospects have developed as hoped and pushed him down the lineup

Or the less desirable option...

B) he's regressed majorly and we f***ed up royally and are looking to buyout his 2 final years.

By this point guys like kuraly are long gone and hopefully guys like Voronkov have established themselves in the NHL.

Jenner could be a center still one season, maybe not all if Johnson is more strength in the next season, similar like like Sillinger. Also Voronkov will come, he's a player strength, quite good skills. Next, very good wingers who can help centers. Chinakhov and Marchenko will be more experienced, don't forget Gaudreau and Laine.

 

[majormajor]

Hopefully

Though if Gavrikov stays that money will need to be taken into account as well.

I tried out the hard situation in armchair GM.

$83.5m cap
Voracek on the active roster
$13m to Horvat+Gavrikov
23 man roster

We can barely squeeze under if all of Roslovic, Boqvist, and Bean are shipped out. That seems doable to me but would require some moves to be made in advance (i.e. probably can't all be done after July signing day).

 

[Viqsi]

I’m not convinced that Jarmo doesn’t re-sign him.

I think it probable - if Nyquist is willing to accept a sweetheart deal.