Interesting Info: Part XXII (Jackets-related "tidbits" here)

[Youngguns1380]

For me the "but we really need him" premium moves Horvat up from $7m to $8m, not $8m to $9m.



Peeke, Marchenko, Knazko, 2024 2nd?

If you meant that to be a 2024 1st, I think that's way too much.

If they still want Roslovic I think it would make sense to include him (perhaps in lieu of the pick or the prospect). I hate saying that while Jack is on a heater. But looking at our cap situation for next year I think we want to move that deal.

I wouldn’t go over 8.5 and term of 6 years?

Roslovic , Peeke and 2024 1st. I would not trade Marchenko.

Try to use the Roslovic money to resign Gavy if we can

 

[ViD]

Acquiring Horvat is only feasible if Voracek retires; what if he decides to play next season?

 

[majormajor]

Acquiring Horvat is only feasible if Voracek retires; what if he decides to play next season?

I went through some scenarios on armchair gm recently and it wasn't that difficult to fit in Horvat even if Voracek is still in action. We would have to move out some money but nothing too difficult.

 

[VT]

Come to think of it, we haven't lost our chance to play PO yet. Of course, it would be difficult, but we have games left in December with:
Florida - OUT
Tampa - OUT
Boston - OUT
Dallas - HOME
Philadelphia - OUT
Chicago - OUT
Buffalo - HOME
Islanders - OUT
Chicago - HOME

Philly, Buffalo Chicago have similar teams like our. They're 5 games from 10. Also we could win although 2 games with favourites. If yes, it could be 14 points from 20.
37 games - 41 points
What is important, Rangers and Isles have more difficult schedule.
I repeat, I'm not saying we'll get in, just that we haven't lost our chance.

 

[VT]

To Horvat, he's an overrated player, not the 1th line center and I don't any reason to get him. We have Johnson, the next draft has many strong centers (I hope Jarmo won't draft Michkov or Šalé), Sillinger could progress, if not the ideal 3th line center.

 

[majormajor]

To Horvat, he's an overrated player

I think he is a bit overrated, but I'm not sure.

Right now I'm guessing that Horvat for us would be kind of like the Trouba acquisition for the Rangers. They overpaid him and now he's an $8m second pair guy for them.

If we're going to be a contender Horvat probably won't be our top center. He'd probably still be a decent 2C, which we might also need. And that's all good we just probably shouldn't pay a 1C price for him (definitely not $9m x 7/8 years). But I understand being somewhat aggressive - I think we need a lot more veteran help to turn the corner and create a better environment for our young players.

 

[EspenK]

I admit I haven't seen Horvat playy but looking at his stats he doesn't appear to be a playmaker with almost a 50/50 split of goals and assists ove his career. His plus minus tends to the negative. At the moment he appears to be better than any C we have but is he better than what KJ could become? If not than paying him 8mm or so for 7 years seems a bit risky to me. Short term I think he fits in the cap. Longer term he could be a cap hog if KJ, Marchenko, Chinakpv, Jiricek,, et al. develop the way we all hope. He would be a short term upgrade but longer term who knows. Plus I doubt he'd want to come here but then again JG did so again who knows.

 

[stevo61]

Horvat is almost Jenner with more puck skills and a better skater. I dont think hes worth 8mil but to get a center like that with leadership qualities on this young team could be hugely valuable. A future center group of Johnson/2023 draft pick-Horvat-Jenner-Kuraly could be pretty interesting.
Could give you something like Gaudreau-Horvat-Marchenko Chinakhov-Johnson-Laine next year. If Voracek comes back then the top 6 is even better.

 

[NotWendell]

Horvat is almost Jenner with more puck skills and a better skater. I dont think hes worth 8mil but to get a center like that with leadership qualities on this young team could be hugely valuable. A future center group of Johnson/2023 draft pick-Horvat-Jenner-Kuraly could be pretty interesting.
Could give you something like Gaudreau-Horvat-Marchenko Chinakhov-Johnson-Laine next year. If Voracek comes back then the top 6 is even better.

Are we giving up on Sillinger already?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Are we giving up on Sillinger already?

Yes he has regressed and is a poor skater and has a girlfriend who’s “young person famous” and…

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

Yes he has regressed and is a poor skater and has a girlfriend who’s “young person famous” and…

I like to call him Windowsillinger because he's usually just watching life go by.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I like to call him Windowsillinger because he's usually just watching life go by.

 

[koteka]

Yes he has regressed and is a poor skater and has a girlfriend who’s “young person famous” and…

“Young person famous” is my new favorite phrase.

 

[stevo61]

Are we giving up on Sillinger already?

For next year? Yeah probably. For the future? No. A likely scenario could be Jenner on his wing but Sillinger fufilling actual center duties so technically the actual depth would be Johnson-Horvat(in this scenario)-Sillinger-Kuraly.
1 major offseason could change so much for him, I still think there is a future solid player there. Just dont know how long before we get to see it.

 

[Monk]

Yes he has regressed and is a poor skater and has a girlfriend who’s “young person famous” and…

I think you're implying I'm not young anymore

 

[Fro]

I think you're implying I'm not young anymore

You thought that was implying?

 

[Monk]

You thought that was implying?

Maybe I'm simply inferring?

Either way...

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I admit I haven't seen Horvat playy but looking at his stats he doesn't appear to be a playmaker with almost a 50/50 split of goals and assists ove his career. His plus minus tends to the negative.

to be fair, these numbers are heavily swayed by:
1. playing 2c behind pettersson
2. being on a non-playoff team for so long

he has a really good shot and more skill than people give him credit for. very good power play guy, elite face-off guy, checks the intangibles box (captain, high compete level), solid two-way player.

not a star level player but IMO he's a #1 center in the sense that he could be the top center on a good team. on a contender, he's a #2.

the hope is that johnson or the 2023 pick end up as the eventual #1, but in the short-term, having horvat - jenner - sillinger - kuraly down the middle is pretty solid given how good the wingers are on this team.

If not than paying him 8mm or so for 7 years seems a bit risky to me. Short term I think he fits in the cap. Longer term he could be a cap hog if KJ, Marchenko, Chinakpv, Jiricek,, et al. develop the way we all hope.

i think it's more likely to be something around 9m over six years rather than 8m over 7.

either way, the cap is going to go up by about 10m over the next four years. by then, the going rate for a second line center on the open market is going to be around 9m anyway. first line centers will be in the 10-12m range.

jiricek's ELC is going to slide, so that's three cheap years after this one. johnson, marchenko and sillinger each have another ELC year after this. chinakhov is an RFA this summer.

johnson/chinny are both 10.2(c) guys so they're ineligible to sign offer sheets or go to arbitration. that'll keep their contracts low. marchenko and sillinger also won't have arbitration rights after their current deals IIRC.

in other words, none of those deals will break the bank. the contracts after their next ones will be pricy, but by then horvat could be off the books and the cap will be way higher anyway.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Are we giving up on Sillinger already?

not only should we not be giving up on sillinger, he should be considered untouchable in any trade talks.

people need to remember that:
- the only younger full-time NHL player right now is slafkovsky, who just went 1-1.
- cole has a (very) late birthday for his draft year
- he'll be 19 all season; kent johnson turned 20 two months ago
- progress isn't linear

there are only two other 19-year-olds from his draft class who are full-time NHL players: dylan guenther and wyatt johnston. cole is (as stated above) younger than both.

guenther's current pace would put him at 23 even strength points over a full season. johnston's would put him at 28. those are good for 19-year-old rookies.

neither is as good as cole's 29 EV points last year, as an 18-year-old. his shooting percentage last year (10.8%) was also lower than guenther (11.8%) and johnston (13.5%) this year.

while his 5 points in 27 games is disappointing, he had a stretch last year where he had 7 points in 27 games. the next game, he had a hat trick. he was really streaky last year. he'll go on a heater this season once he gets a shot in the top six.

also worth noting that his shooting percentage this year (5.4%) is unsustainably low right now. the lack of a veteran playmaker on his line is hurting his game (which is a direct, go-to-the-net game). he played a lot last year with bjorkstrand and voracek and domi. this year he's played a lot with young guys, including big minutes with foudy/TFW, who aren't going to help him produce at all.

he still has #1 center potential IMO (albeit more in the horvat north-south vein) and a really good chance to get there. he has the build, hands, shot and compete level to do that, it's just a matter of his vision and skating catching up. both will come in time.

 

[tunnelvision]

he has the build, hands, shot and compete level to do that, it's just a matter of his vision and skating catching up. both will come in time.

Sure if he's given enough time to practice skating and he's determined to get better at it. I want to read Dumais-like stories of him working regularly with a personal skating coach 3 times a week. So far I haven't seen any of those.

I think you might be putting too much weight on point totals when assessing his progress. IMO he was great at the season opener vs Canes but in preseason and rest of regular season he's been very close to the same not-NHL-ready player he was last year. I don't even see his vision holding him back production-wise, frankly, it's just the skating.

 

[Viqsi]

either way, the cap is going to go up by about 10m over the next four years.

Doesn't seem like things are off to a good start in that direction...

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Sure if he's given enough time to practice skating and he's determined to get better at it. I want to read Dumais-like stories of him working regularly with a personal skating coach 3 times a week. So far I haven't seen any of those.

and we'd be getting those stories if he was still playing in junior. front office guys for junior teams love to talk to reporters about that stuff.

meanwhile, cole is working with basil mcrae and the rest of the blue jackets' staff in a state-of-the-art nhl facility during the season.

just because they're not writing about it doesn't mean it's not happening. a cursory google search showed that he trained with tanner jeannot this offseason in regina.

i'm sure the NHL player with the NHL father knows that he needs to fix his skating to be a good NHL player. i'm sure he's been working on it and will continue to work on it. but there's not a magic bullet that will fix it overnight, we're dealing with muscle memory here.

I think you might be putting too much weight on point totals when assessing his progress. IMO he was great at the season opener vs Canes but in preseason and rest of regular season he's been very close to the same not-NHL-ready player he was last year. I don't even see his vision holding him back production-wise, frankly, it's just the skating.

my point is that people are way too focused on what cole sillinger looks like right now among NHL veterans and are losing the context of how he's faring relative to his peers, few of whom are even in the NHL.

he was also able to be more of a passenger on his line last year. making him play with other rookies has forced him to play a puck-dominant game. i do think he's capable of it, but not very proficient right now.

brad has sworn some kind of samurai oath to keeping jenner/gaudreau together, but i really do think sillinger would benefit the most from playing with johnny. cole was at his best last year when he could play without the puck in the o-zone, as he could find little seams here and there to get in front of the net.

with gaudreau, he could do that. he's also a good threat on the rush. johnny would free up a lot of space there. of course, there's something to be said for having him learn what it takes to carry a checking line, too.

 

[Youngguns1380]

Horvat is almost Jenner with more puck skills and a better skater. I dont think hes worth 8mil but to get a center like that with leadership qualities on this young team could be hugely valuable. A future center group of Johnson/2023 draft pick-Horvat-Jenner-Kuraly could be pretty interesting.
Could give you something like Gaudreau-Horvat-Marchenko Chinakhov-Johnson-Laine next year. If Voracek comes back then the top 6 is even better.

I agree with your comparison to Jenner, but with Horvat and Jenner - as a 1C and 2C here is what we receive:

1. A great 1 and 2 combination for face offs - both are in the top 10​

2. Time for Sillinger and Johnson to grow into the roles of 1C and 2C​

3. Both are leaders and locker room guys​

4. Less wear and tear on Jenner and his back​

I see the lines as such

Gudreau - Horvat - Johnson/Marchenko
Chinakhov - Jenner - Laine
Nyquist - Sillinger - Marchenko

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I agree with your comparison to's to Jenner, but with Horvat and Jenner - as a 1C and 2C here is what we receive:

1. A great 1 and 2 combination for face offs - both are in the top 10​

2. Time for Sillinger and Johnson to grow into the roles of 1C and 2C​

3. Both are leaders and locker room guys​

4. Less wear and tear on Jenner and his back​

I see the lines as such

Gudreau - Horvat - Johnson/Marchenko
Chinakhov - Jenner - Laine
Nyquist - Sillinger - Marchenko

Beyond that, with some lottery luck, we could have something like:

Gaudreau - Fantilli - Chinakhov
Johnson - Horvat - Laine
Jenner - Sillinger - Marchenko
Texier - Kuraly - Danforth

…which would be a NASTY forward group.

 

[majormajor]

and we'd be getting those stories if he was still playing in junior. front office guys for junior teams love to talk to reporters about that stuff.

meanwhile, cole is working with basil mcrae and the rest of the blue jackets' staff in a state-of-the-art nhl facility during the season.

just because they're not writing about it doesn't mean it's not happening. a cursory google search showed that he trained with tanner jeannot this offseason in regina.

The issue is the NHL schedule. There's no time for skating training. You're either playing or recovering. It's too intense to allow a shift in focus to something else.

Meanwhile skating training is scheduled during the week for our AHL prospects.

Cole's day to day NHL experience I'm sure has taught him some valuable lessons but at this point there is a block in his development and he's wasting his time here. It's just the skating.