Interesting Info: Part XIV (All Jackets-related "tidbits" in here)

[Mayor Bee]

So the CBJ fans dont deserve to see their team in the playoffs??
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Brad...ffs-or-Bust-A-Players-Perspecti8230/197/58650


He probably thinks we're a "sunbelt" team too

Brad Marsh, whose NHL career began in Atlanta with the Flames, is going to pass judgment on anyone else.

Shame....I actually liked him during his playing career. At this point, **** him.

 

[FANonymous]

Brad Marsh, whose NHL career began in Atlanta with the Flames, is going to pass judgment on anyone else.

Shame....I actually liked him during his playing career. At this point, **** him.

I would be interested if he could put together a checklist for who deserves to be in the playoffs or not. You see, I was always under the impression that it was the teams with the most points, but perhaps I have been mislead.

 

[Mayor Bee]

I would be interested if he could put together a checklist for who deserves to be in the playoffs or not. You see, I was always under the impression that it was the teams with the most points, but perhaps I have been mislead.

Obviously if you don't know the list, you don't deserve the playoffs. None of you or the other Yankee Doodle Dorks do.

 

[major major]

I'm pretty sure Marsh is just biased by our attendance of recent years, something like "Can't even fill a building? Must not want it enough." I agree with his sentiment for some teams but he's wrong about hockey in Ohio. The Arena sold out for years and will again when there's a winner. Ohio is a frozen wasteland in winter, hardly different than the frozen wasteland a short hop over Lake Erie. Kids in Ohio play hockey all the time, I know I did in high school there. Some people like Bucci know this, and some people like Marsh don't, but they'll all know it in time.

 

[Robert]

I'm pretty sure Marsh is just biased by our attendance of recent years, something like "Can't even fill a building? Must not want it enough." I agree with his sentiment for some teams but he's wrong about hockey in Ohio. The Arena sold out for years and will again when there's a winner. Ohio is a frozen wasteland in winter, hardly different than the frozen wasteland a short hop over Lake Erie. Kids in Ohio play hockey all the time, I know I did in high school there. Some people like Bucci know this, and some people like Marsh don't, but they'll all know it in time.

The CBJ sold out their first two seasons.. after that the great decline began...

There is a hockey market in Columbus but it's far from being close to any Canada, USA/Canada boarder team or original six team..

There are bad teams in the NHL who sell more tickets than a very good CBJ team, Columbus needs to step it up... They would be selling out every game right now if it was indeed a hockey town..

 

[blahblah]

So the CBJ fans dont deserve to see their team in the playoffs??
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Brad...ffs-or-Bust-A-Players-Perspecti8230/197/58650


He probably thinks we're a "sunbelt" team too

Don't know why we are upset. He stated his criteria. One of them were fans not supporting their teams. We are near the bottom in attendance.

We complain about attendance ourselves.

I would be interested if he could put together a checklist for who deserves to be in the playoffs or not. You see, I was always under the impression that it was the teams with the most points, but perhaps I have been mislead.

He said the fans didn't deserve it. He said nothing about the team (at least that I remember seeing).

I know we're upset because he's not on the CBJ bandwagon; but I thought his criteria was reasonable - especially since he comes out and directly addresses his bias's.

Reading this article; it looked like an attack on the fans not the team. I can live with that. The casuals have not returned yet.

In case you missed it; right from the article.

I do not want Columbus, Phoenix, Tampa Bay or Florida in the playoffs – their fans do not deserve it.

I can't say that fan support is part of my criteria for how I support as a fan. But it sure appears that, at least, one person didn't understand where he was coming from.

 

[Mayor Bee]

He said the fans didn't deserve it. He said nothing about the team (at least that I remember seeing).

I know we're upset because he's not on the CBJ bandwagon; but I thought his criteria was reasonable - especially since he comes out and directly addresses his bias's.

Reading this article; it looked like an attack on the fans not the team. I can live with that. The casuals have not returned yet.

In case you missed it; right from the article.

I can't say that fan support is part of my criteria for how I support as a fan. But it sure appears that, at least, one person didn't understand where he was coming from.

As is standard, Marsh still finds a way to distort his own criteria as he sees fit.

Let's look at St. Louis. 1st in the Central, 1st in the Western Conference, and control their destiny for the Presidents Trophy again. They were a playoff team last year, they won the Central two years ago and were the #2 seed in the West, and they're a serious contender. What's their attendance? 87.4%, good for 25th in the league. Florida, "undeserving" of the playoffs, is at 86.8%.

St. Louis failed to sell out any of their playoff games last year. I don't need to restate that to underscore how completely absurd that is. "But MB!", Brad Marsh might say, "That's different." St. Louis is actually averaging less fans per game than they were last year. And it's not like they're competing against the NBA, a good NFL team, or any part of the MLB season right now. This is a team that's been around for just under 50 years, yet cannot be bothered to show up and watch a legitimate Cup contender.

How about Vancouver? They had to go 50% off playoff tickets last year just to sell out, and for their outdoor game this year they had to slash prices to guarantee a sellout as well. Their collapse is unexpected; it's not like people knew going into last year's playoffs or this season that they'd be watching a bubble team. But I don't see Vancouver on that list of "undeserving".

How about Colorado? They never had a problem selling out the building when the team was contending, and as soon as they fell on hard times, sellouts became a rarity. The last time they averaged 90% was when Adam Foote had just been shipped back there. They're 4th in the West, legitimate contenders with an excellent young core and an electrifying 18-year-old rookie, and they're still 24th in attendance in the league. Where's the "Colorado's fans don't deserve the playoffs" rhetoric?

His single criteria would be reasonable if it were consistently applied. But it's not. It's nothing but the standard hit piece on the "non-traditional" markets, hiding behind something masquerading as a real reason. He complains about Anaheim in 2006-07; the Ducks were ahead of Boston, Washington, NY Islanders, New Jersey, Chicago, and St. Louis in attendance that year. If attendance and support is the only measure, why complain about the Ducks?

He complains about Tampa in 2003-04, saying "I was not happy when Tampa won the Stanley Cup -nothing against the players, but the fans did not deserve it and they beat my old team the Calgary Flames". Tampa that year averaged 90.2% attendance, while the very Calgary team that they beat averaged 85.9%. Calgary fans would get to watch two playoff teams and the 9th seed in their own division; Tampa fans would get to see four teams that all finished below .500 (21st, 22nd, 24th, and 29th in the league) yet still outsold Calgary. Why didn't Tampa fans deserve it more than Calgary? They'd seen worse teams more recently, saw worse opponents on a regular basis, had higher attendance, and somehow that wasn't good enough.

 

[CBJx614]

Its just how he words the whole thing. Hard working teams deserve to get in, but Columbus doesnt because of our fans? We are one of the hardest working teams n the league, its a known fact around players and coaches in the league. . .smh

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Its just how he words the whole thing. Hard working teams deserve to get in, but Columbus doesnt because of our fans? We are one of the hardest working teams n the league, its a known fact around players and coaches in the league. . .smh

Additionally, per the poor wording, it's not the fans that don't deserve it. The fact that the team can't fill the building to a certain percentage is not due to the lack of support from fans. It's that attendance is not being supplemented beyond fans.

 

[Bobcat110]

There is a hockey market in Columbus but it's far from being close to any Canada, USA/Canada boarder team or original six team..

There are bad teams in the NHL who sell more tickets than a very good CBJ team, Columbus needs to step it up... They would be selling out every game right now if it was indeed a hockey town..

BS....most Americans, some Canadian markets, even "Original Six team fans", don't pay for years on end of ****** hockey. The CBJ still haven't won a single playoff game, much less a playoff series. Most Columbus casual fans still see the same team right now as last year, and the year before, and the year before that, a team with a history of losing and embarrassments. They're weary and skeptical that of this team.

We're only two years removed from a debacle of a season of the cancer named Jeff Carter, Nash giving up on Columbus, finishing last in the league and still losing the draft lottery. One year removed from a lock-out shortened season that took away the All-Star game. Last season also saw a team that took two months to bury themselves in the standings, and two months digging themselves out just to end the season out of the playoffs on a tie-breaker rule. This year, they are currently in a playoff position, but are only two losses away from being out of a playoff spot. This team hasn't even proven they can even win if they have a sell-out crowd...what are they now? Something like 2-11-1 in last 14 sellouts?

Until we win some playoff games and then attendance remains near the league bottom, we're no different than almost every other "hockey market". The fans of "hockey market" teams below didn't pay for bad hockey, but yet Columbus fans are expected to?

Attendance Ranking:
2011-12: Colorado (23rd), New Jersey (24th), Dallas (28th)
2010-11: Dallas (23rd), Colorado (24th), New Jersey (25th)
2009-10: Colorado (27th)
2006-07: Boston (25th), Washington (27th), Chicago (29th) and St. Louis (30th)
2005-06: Chicago (29th), Washington (28th) and St. Louis (27th)
2003-04: Pittsburgh (30th) and Chicago (27th)
2002-03: Buffalo (27th)
2001-02: Boston (25th) and Calgary (21st)
1999-00: Vancouver (23rd out of 28 teams) and Calgary (20th)


Finally, attendance rankings are a season long ranking. CBJ played below average hockey in October/November/Early December. Not too unexpectedly, attendance was also below average. If you had a crowd of 12,000 on Monday night in late-October when the team was struggling, you would need a crowd of 16,000 next Tuesday versus Carolina just to offset that game for an average of 14,000. What's their average attendance since Mid-January or so when CBJ actually started to play well?

 

[pete goegan]

As is standard, Marsh still finds a way to distort his own criteria as he sees fit.

Let's look at St. Louis. 1st in the Central, 1st in the Western Conference, and control their destiny for the Presidents Trophy again. They were a playoff team last year, they won the Central two years ago and were the #2 seed in the West, and they're a serious contender. What's their attendance? 87.4%, good for 25th in the league. Florida, "undeserving" of the playoffs, is at 86.8%.

St. Louis failed to sell out any of their playoff games last year. I don't need to restate that to underscore how completely absurd that is. "But MB!", Brad Marsh might say, "That's different." St. Louis is actually averaging less fans per game than they were last year. And it's not like they're competing against the NBA, a good NFL team, or any part of the MLB season right now. This is a team that's been around for just under 50 years, yet cannot be bothered to show up and watch a legitimate Cup contender.

How about Vancouver? They had to go 50% off playoff tickets last year just to sell out, and for their outdoor game this year they had to slash prices to guarantee a sellout as well. Their collapse is unexpected; it's not like people knew going into last year's playoffs or this season that they'd be watching a bubble team. But I don't see Vancouver on that list of "undeserving".

How about Colorado? They never had a problem selling out the building when the team was contending, and as soon as they fell on hard times, sellouts became a rarity. The last time they averaged 90% was when Adam Foote had just been shipped back there. They're 4th in the West, legitimate contenders with an excellent young core and an electrifying 18-year-old rookie, and they're still 24th in attendance in the league. Where's the "Colorado's fans don't deserve the playoffs" rhetoric?

His single criteria would be reasonable if it were consistently applied. But it's not. It's nothing but the standard hit piece on the "non-traditional" markets, hiding behind something masquerading as a real reason. He complains about Anaheim in 2006-07; the Ducks were ahead of Boston, Washington, NY Islanders, New Jersey, Chicago, and St. Louis in attendance that year. If attendance and support is the only measure, why complain about the Ducks?

He complains about Tampa in 2003-04, saying "I was not happy when Tampa won the Stanley Cup -nothing against the players, but the fans did not deserve it and they beat my old team the Calgary Flames". Tampa that year averaged 90.2% attendance, while the very Calgary team that they beat averaged 85.9%. Calgary fans would get to watch two playoff teams and the 9th seed in their own division; Tampa fans would get to see four teams that all finished below .500 (21st, 22nd, 24th, and 29th in the league) yet still outsold Calgary. Why didn't Tampa fans deserve it more than Calgary? They'd seen worse teams more recently, saw worse opponents on a regular basis, had higher attendance, and somehow that wasn't good enough.

BS....most Americans, some Canadian markets, even "Original Six team fans", don't pay for years on end of ****** hockey. The CBJ still haven't won a single playoff game, much less a playoff series. Most Columbus casual fans still see the same team right now as last year, and the year before, and the year before that, a team with a history of losing and embarrassments. They're weary and skeptical that of this team.

We're only two years removed from a debacle of a season of the cancer named Jeff Carter, Nash giving up on Columbus, finishing last in the league and still losing the draft lottery. One year removed from a lock-out shortened season that took away the All-Star game. Last season also saw a team that took two months to bury themselves in the standings, and two months digging themselves out just to end the season out of the playoffs on a tie-breaker rule. This year, they are currently in a playoff position, but are only two losses away from being out of a playoff spot. This team hasn't even proven they can even win if they have a sell-out crowd...what are they now? Something like 2-11-1 in last 14 sellouts?

Until we win some playoff games and then attendance remains near the league bottom, we're no different than almost every other "hockey market". The fans of "hockey market" teams below didn't pay for bad hockey, but yet Columbus fans are expected to?

Attendance Ranking:
2011-12: Colorado (23rd), New Jersey (24th), Dallas (28th)
2010-11: Dallas (23rd), Colorado (24th), New Jersey (25th)
2009-10: Colorado (27th)
2006-07: Boston (25th), Washington (27th), Chicago (29th) and St. Louis (30th)
2005-06: Chicago (29th), Washington (28th) and St. Louis (27th)
2003-04: Pittsburgh (30th) and Chicago (27th)
2002-03: Buffalo (27th)
2001-02: Boston (25th) and Calgary (21st)
1999-00: Vancouver (23rd out of 28 teams) and Calgary (20th)


Finally, attendance rankings are a season long ranking. CBJ played below average hockey in October/November/Early December. Not too unexpectedly, attendance was also below average. If you had a crowd of 12,000 on Monday night in late-October when the team was struggling, you would need a crowd of 16,000 next Tuesday versus Carolina just to offset that game for an average of 14,000. What's their average attendance since Mid-January or so when CBJ actually started to play well?

Two excellent posts, far beyond any analysis Marsh appears capable of constructing!

 

[Xoggz22]

I was speaking with a few colleagues today and discussed the very fact that most in Columbus, even us die hards, don't realize that we actually do have a very good team. I went into the game last night expecting a loss. I've identified other remaining games where points are not likely to be had.... I stopped in the middle of the game last night and truly realized that the CBJ are one of the best teams in the NHL since December 1st. Top4 I believe. That's not a fluke. Getting the word out is the hard part. The only way that happens is to keep winning and force people to take note.

Consistent winning brings back the casual fan and the sell outs. That will shut up Mr. Marsh. In my opinion, the fact we still have 13000 fans a game is a testament to the unbelievable fans. We DO DESERVE it.

 

[blahblah]

As is standard, Marsh still finds a way to distort his own criteria as he sees fit.

If you are saying that he didn't do research, since I'm not going to read this complete wall of text. Umm ok. I don't really care. I wouldn't research a gut reaction based on that criteria with historical data either, if I were in his position.

However my point still stands. He stated the fans didn't deserve it; not that the team didn't deserve it. That is where your and others focus of angst should be. I saw no point in which he insulted or team or it's players.

I don't give a crap one way or another about this guy. However, there seemed to be people fired up for what he didn't say.

If you have something to discuss in that regard, fine. If you are going to say he's contradicting himself; I don't care. He didn't insult my team; so what do I care? I stuck up for our casuals this season and they let me down. Having said that; it doesn't mean that I won't wish they don't make the playoffs.

I find his method dumb; but it's his and why should I care? I've made a financial investment in this team and am a hardcore fan. Nothing he said is directed at me.

 

[Bobcat110]

Nothing he said is directed at me.

Well...except that you don't deserve a playoff team

 

[blahblah]

Its just how he words the whole thing. Hard working teams deserve to get in, but Columbus doesnt because of our fans? We are one of the hardest working teams n the league, its a known fact around players and coaches in the league. . .smh

Did he ever say that Columbus (the team) doesn't deserve to get in?

You know for a forum that spend hours ripping other fan bases to shreds; we sure can't take it when someone directs a shot at ours.

I mean seriously. I don't like the Rangers and I never want them to make the playoffs. That doesn't mean that I can't appreciate what they do on the ice. My dislike of that team has nothing to do with that. Why would I get fired up about this guy?

I'm not supporting him. But I don't think we he said was anything to get worked up about.

 

[blahblah]

Well...except that you don't deserve a playoff team

Not at all. Since I support my team, (I buy tickets, merchandise, talk about them with friends, take friends and family to games), his comments aren't directed at me. He's talking about the fans not in the stands; not the ones that are actually in them.

It's a generalization on his part; but easily understood where he is coming from.

 

[pete goegan]

Who deserves a playoff team fortunately is not put to a vote, it's earned on the ice. I find that appreciation for the Jackets and their style of play has grown enormously in recent weeks. In days past, I could listen to the NHL channel on Serius XM all week and only hear the team mentioned in the recap of scores. Over the last few weeks, I have often heard the team praised for their attitude, aggressiveness, and competitiveness. It has even been said, more than once, that their games have been fun to watch! When has anyone around the league had that view? After all these years as the butt of jokes, it is nice hear a bit of positive reinforcement, for a change! Seems that Marsh's opinion may not be universally shared.

 

[pete goegan]

...You know for a forum that spend hours ripping other fan bases to shreds; we sure can't take it when someone directs a shot at ours...

While I'll agree that many of us have become sensitive to criticism regarding fan support, I'm baffled at your accusation that this forum frequently rips on other teams fans. On the contrary, anytime anyone on here takes a shot, they are immediately jumped by several others who remind them that, having suffered pokes and jabs for so many years, we should know better and should not criticize. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see it.

 

[neek21]

I've taken 15-20 friends to their very first NHL hockey game and their reaction is the same every time: that was one of the most awesome sports experiences they've ever had...they've watched it on TV, gone to low level minor league games [which anymore attracts 'fans' that live for fights and/or need to be drunken fools to enjoy themselves], or pretty much blew the sport off altogether...we have a meal in the Arena District, I give them a short tour of the arena, then i take them down to the glass for warmups...my seats are in the lower bowl as well...it's a whole different deal live versus trying to watch a little dot flit around a TV screen...there are MANY sports fans that don't realize that the best hockey players IN THE WORLD play at Nationwide Arena with and against the Bluejackets every night...it's a fabulous asset to Central Ohio [the entire region, actually...I live in Piqua which is an hour+ west of Columbus]...I am a big OSU fan for sure, but the CBJ truly gives Columbus a world class professional sports team in a world class collegiate city...for perspective, I've been a partial plan holder since 07-08, been a fan since day one

 

[Doug19]

Not at all. Since I support my team, (I buy tickets, merchandise, talk about them with friends, take friends and family to games), his comments aren't directed at me. He's talking about the fans not in the stands; not the ones that are actually in them.

It's a generalization on his part; but easily understood where he is coming from.

Are you a CBJ fan? Last I checked he didn't say the fans that support the team deserve the playoffs he said that the fans don't deserve it. You support CBJ, but you don't deserve the playoffs, sorry to break it to you Mr. Edgy. You're not special or excluded from the "fan" label according to what he wrote. So look at you formulating your response on what you think he meant not what he said.

 

[Fred Glover]

Who is this Marsh character that everyone is talking about?

 

[Viqsi]

Not at all. Since I support my team, (I buy tickets, merchandise, talk about them with friends, take friends and family to games), his comments aren't directed at me. He's talking about the fans not in the stands; not the ones that are actually in them.

Still can't afford tickets and parking and such, for the record, although that may change soon.

Might want to be careful with the generalizations there.

 

[blahblah]

Still can't afford tickets and parking and such, for the record, although that may change soon.

Might want to be careful with the generalizations there.

What generalization? I simply talked about my situation; no one else's.

Let me add to this. I don't agree with him; said it a few times. I wasn't judging an person individually. If you can't afford to go to games (or if you need to spend your money on other priorities); that is fine - great even. There were 3 years where I needed to spend money elsewhere.

It is not your, personal, responsibility to fill in the 4k extra seats per night. It is, however, the responsibility of the population of central ohio to figure out how to fill in those sets. That is a rather large population base. Is it required to keep the team in Columbus? Probably not. Required to keep a competitive team close to the cap? Far more likely.

That dude is free to pass support who he wants to make the playoffs. He's also free to judge our market for not filling the arena. I don't use that method for who I support, actually I tend to go the reverse (I like smaller market teams - I tend to like the underdogs).

 

[blahblah]

Are you a CBJ fan? Last I checked he didn't say the fans that support the team deserve the playoffs he said that the fans don't deserve it. You support CBJ, but you don't deserve the playoffs, sorry to break it to you Mr. Edgy. You're not special or excluded from the "fan" label according to what he wrote. So look at you formulating your response on what you think he meant not what he said.

I figured someone would come up with this.

Here I'll simplify this. Would he have included us in the conversation if we had 4k more per game, on average? No. He's talking about the 4-5k empty seats per night; not the 13.5k that are in the crowd.

 

[jackets4life]

Really, who gives a damn what this asshat says? It's an absolutely absurd concept to say that there are teams that deserve to make the playoffs more than others. The teams with the most points make it and the one's that don't have enough don't make it. All franchises have great fans, yes even Phoenix, Florida, etc, that care deeply about their team. He's free to judge markets like these and ours here in Columbus, but he is being ignorant to many aspects of why these markets are seeing the numbers they are seeing now and have seen in the past. So let him have his ignoramus opinion and let us pay it no attention, which is obviously what he was seeking.

I'd like to see him try to draw 14,000+ a night with a team that loses miserably and is managed poorly for damn near 14 years. That's a darn good number in my opinion, all things considered, and the other 4,000 are still capable of being won back.