Rumor: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) LXXXI
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TheStranger
Registered User
How many 6 million dollar forwards can we afford?
Whenver I mention future cap issues people always tell me Brieres deal is coming off the books at the end of this year. So all will be fine.
Tbh, Rads is probably only a possibility cap-wise if we trade ROR for picks and prospects.
TheStranger
Registered User
Yeah I don't think that's enough for say a new 6 million dollar forward, and a #2 FA defenseman that everyone want. Plus Johnson, barrie and Mackinnon all needing extensions within the next year. Cap issues are going to be very real very soon.
Yup, that 16/17 year looks tough when Iggy, McLeod, Mitchell, Stuart, Holden and Berra still are eating $15M+ combined. Hardly doubt anyone of those players will live up to their contracts in that year. All of them hard to move even today.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
How do other teams get away with paying several players 7, 8, 10M? But yeah O'Reilly isn't getting the blank check.
What do you mean? We all live under the same cap. Any examples? But I guess a key is not to give crazy term at big money to below average depth players.
If ROR isn't traded.
Varly 5.9M
Barrie 6.0M?
EJ 6.0M?
Duchene 6.0M
Landeskog 5.57M
O'Reilly 6.5M?
MacKinnon 6.5M?
Those numbers will obviously not be exactly right. But it will be around 40-45M for the seven man core from 2016 and on. And that year we have..
Iginla 5.33M
Mitchell 1.8M
McLeod 1.33M
Holden 1.65M
Berra 1.45M
Stuart 3.6M
That's 15M+ into those six players.
Which will mean 55-60M into 13 players. That's rough.
It's going to be interesting to follow this. Where is the cap expected to be at in 1,5 year?
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
I mean team like Philly, Toronto have been getting away with having no money for years. I can't look up exact numbers right now.
The key is going to get a couple more core players on friendly contracts and using guys on ELCs for depth.
The key is going to get a couple more core players on friendly contracts and using guys on ELCs for depth.
Phily have blown a lot of money on defenseman. But as of now. They only have two contract higher than 5.0M. And it's Streit at 5.25M and Giroux at 8.275M.
Leafs have a lot of bad contracts but lower hits than 6.0M.
Both have fewer great players to sign basically. And if we are talking history, they both were saved pretty good by the amnesty buyouts.
Avs_19
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- Jun 28, 2007
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I know O'Reilly has to go if he doesn't re-sign but they better have a backup plan. A good backup plan. Can't lose Stastny and O'Reilly in back to back years without getting a good replacement. O'Reilly is doing everything for this team right now and it's clear Duchene can't handle that role.
TheStranger
Registered User
There is no plan they can put in place that wouldn't leave us as a worse team without O'Reilly. And I mean significantly worse.
agentblack
Registered User
Avs need to somehow find some homeruns in the draft in the next few years
Good players on ELC is obviously good but imo is going to make the difference in how we move forward with all our big contracts coming up.
Maybe Hayes' interest is a sign other college FA like what the Avs are about. That would be huge to plug in just one of those kids next fall.
Add our first selection this year which will clearly be McDavid and we are set.
Good players on ELC is obviously good but imo is going to make the difference in how we move forward with all our big contracts coming up.
Maybe Hayes' interest is a sign other college FA like what the Avs are about. That would be huge to plug in just one of those kids next fall.
Add our first selection this year which will clearly be McDavid and we are set.
TheStranger
Registered User
Yeah, it's clear that there are several posters on here that could be put in management and do a better job, they tell us every day.
dahrougem2
Registered User
It is also becoming more clear to me that Duchene just can't handle what O'Reilly does.
I get it, Duchene has been called the heart of this team by Roy and I love the guy for his heart and passion for this team. But at what point do you look at this roster and think that, if you really do believe MacKinnon is going to be a centre if/when this team wins a cup, isn't it more ideal to have O'Reilly as the two-way 2C instead of having Duchene there? I'm certain O'Reilly won't sign here if he's asked to play wing again, and all around this season he has IMO been the better centre than Duchene.
Unless the plan is to permanently make MacK a RW, I'm not sure what to think. I love both O'Reilly and Duchene equally, but ROR's style of play is much more beneficial to this team if MacKinnon is the future 1C. Add to that the fact that Duchene probably gets us an even higher return via trade, and you really have quite the conundrum
Avs_19
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- Jun 28, 2007
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Duchene shouldn't be traded. I think he has been the biggest disappointment on the team this season but can't just forget what he did last season. He was a PPG player who might have finished top 10 in scoring if he didn't get hurt. He's a very important part of the team.
I agree about this season though. O'Reilly has been much better. The offensive production is very similar and everything else O'Reilly is doing blows Duchene and his fishing rod out of the water. Teams still have to gameplan for Duchene though and that also frees up the other lines. So he's still valuable even when he's not scoring but just hasn't been as valuable as O'Reilly this season.
I agree about this season though. O'Reilly has been much better. The offensive production is very similar and everything else O'Reilly is doing blows Duchene and his fishing rod out of the water. Teams still have to gameplan for Duchene though and that also frees up the other lines. So he's still valuable even when he's not scoring but just hasn't been as valuable as O'Reilly this season.
Avs71
Registered User
- Aug 12, 2008
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Duchene is having a down year no doubt. People seem to forget how dominant he was last season. Most thought he was more important than Varlamov.
Didn't he say he couldn't start training till later because of his knee? For a guy that thrives off his athleticism, not being in tip top shape will definitely hurt his game.
If he plays like this next season too, sure start entertaining the idea of moving him. But he was Crosby-West for a large part of last season.
Didn't he say he couldn't start training till later because of his knee? For a guy that thrives off his athleticism, not being in tip top shape will definitely hurt his game.
If he plays like this next season too, sure start entertaining the idea of moving him. But he was Crosby-West for a large part of last season.
dahrougem2
Registered User
It's not that I want him traded, but it's more a "How is this team going to be built" reason. No doubt Duchene is fantastic and I remember what he's done for this team in the past, but I trust O'Reilly a hell of a lot more out there in key match-ups than Duchene, and I don't trust MacKinnon lol. But I think Sakic/Roy do believe in MacKinnon as a centre, which makes for an interesting decision as to who is going to be the 2C for this club.
There are other factors that play into this, too. Landeskog and O'Reilly have outstanding chemistry with one another and can shut down any line in the league together. We saw what they did last night vs the Gaudreau-Monahan-Hudler line. Bleackley is coming and is likely going to be converted to RW in order to fill MacK's absence there. I just think that this team would be built better with a MacK/ROR combo down the middle instead of MacK/Duchene.
Cypher
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Avs_19
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I also think they see MacKinnon as a center but there's no one Roy trusts more than O'Reilly so maybe they'd be okay with MacKinnon staying at wing. Especially if that's what it takes for O'Reilly to re-sign. Hopefully that's something MacKinnon would be okay with as well.
I don't think it needs to be Duchene or O'Reilly. They're both important pieces and we can afford both of them. Duchene has already bought in and signed long-term so he's here to stay.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
It's not an option to trade Duchene and keep O'Reilly, it simply isn't. The ship sailed when one signed a long term contract and one didn't. MacK could very well be a RW. Two years he's hardly played C, when is he all of a sudden develop as one? By magic over the summer? If they lose O'Reilly they'll have to bring in a defensive 2/3C. There is going to be a limit to how much they can pay O'Reilly. If they have to trade him they can put that money elsewhere, they have to. Actually wouldn't shock me if in 5 years Bleackley is the C and MacK is the RW (standard development caveat here).
dahrougem2
Registered User
If MacKinnon converts to RW, I agree both Duchene and O'Reilly can stay because I believe we can afford them. But if MacKinnon goes back to C, do we really want to pay one of Duchene/O'Reilly 6M to be the 3C for this team? Because neither is going to play LW. Duchene flat out can't and O'Reilly has proven he's a better centre, and probably wouldn't sign here if he was asked to play LW. That's why I think it's a big decision for Sakic/Roy but especially Roy. I think he needs to sit down with MacKinnon at the end-of-season meetings and convince the kid that he's just better suited as a RW where he has less defensive responsibilities and can focus on scoring more. Personally I've always felt that MacKinnon was more of a winger than a centre.
RockLobster
King in the North
The Avs have already shown that they have no problem paying 1-way contracts to players playing in the AHL.
If it comes to that, then I can see, at the very least, Berra and Guenin in the AHL, possibly Holden (if he reverts back to the beginning of the year).
The Avs' Cap situation isn't as dire as some people make it out to be. Could it be better? Sure, I'd never argue that it wouldn't be. Hindsight shows that it would have been better to not sign Berra to that extension (or even trade for him to begin with, but what's done is done), or McLeod even...though I don't have a problem with him, would have just preferred a bit less term.
The Holden deal was being praised by some of the more prominent Hockey Journalists as the Avs locking him up at a exceptionally reasonable rate before he had the chance to get to UFA again...but his play hasn't been as good as it could be. He still suffers from defensive gaffes. The only thing in the Avs' favor is that it's an exceptionally small deal $ wise.
I still don't have a huge problem with the Stuart situation. No, it's not ideal, and he wasn't my first choice (or even my 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th...), but I've pointed out that UFA defensemen get paid--none more so evident than Deryk frigging Engelland with his 2.9M cap hit on his deal with Calgary. Stuart should hopefully settle in to a 3rd pairing role once the Avs get the defensive corps taken care of.
If it comes to that, then I can see, at the very least, Berra and Guenin in the AHL, possibly Holden (if he reverts back to the beginning of the year).
The Avs' Cap situation isn't as dire as some people make it out to be. Could it be better? Sure, I'd never argue that it wouldn't be. Hindsight shows that it would have been better to not sign Berra to that extension (or even trade for him to begin with, but what's done is done), or McLeod even...though I don't have a problem with him, would have just preferred a bit less term.
The Holden deal was being praised by some of the more prominent Hockey Journalists as the Avs locking him up at a exceptionally reasonable rate before he had the chance to get to UFA again...but his play hasn't been as good as it could be. He still suffers from defensive gaffes. The only thing in the Avs' favor is that it's an exceptionally small deal $ wise.
I still don't have a huge problem with the Stuart situation. No, it's not ideal, and he wasn't my first choice (or even my 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th...), but I've pointed out that UFA defensemen get paid--none more so evident than Deryk frigging Engelland with his 2.9M cap hit on his deal with Calgary. Stuart should hopefully settle in to a 3rd pairing role once the Avs get the defensive corps taken care of.
dahrougem2
Registered User
You simply can't say that, though. Just because Duchene signed a long-term contract doesn't change anything IMO. He signed a market-value deal, no discount given to the Avs, he just happened to sign for more term. Given how O'Reilly has played this season, management can't ignore this question.
I'm not advocating for Duchene to be traded. But I am saying that Sakic/Roy have said in the past that if we win a cup, it will be with MacKinnon as a centre. If that has changed and they believe in MacKinnon as a permanent RW, great, I'd prefer that. But if they still believe in MacK as a centre, than the question of "Who can be our 2C" has to be asked. And if we're judging it in terms of playing style and fit, my personal preference is O'Reilly.
Wayne Gretzky was traded. It's not unfathomable to think that Sakic/Roy could trade Duchene if they think that 1) O'Reilly is the better 2C fit, and 2) Duchene can garner a bigger return. They are here to make the team better, not to pick favourites
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
I'm not saying he's too good to be traded. I'm saying the value of his contract makes him untradeable. It also makes a HUGE assumption we can even sign O'Reilly and for what? You don't take a guy who has made a commitment to the team and trade him at the beginning of his contract. IF they were both signed to the same contact right now it would be a decent debate. The reality that their situations are so vastly different that it's like having the what are we going to do with McDavid discussion.
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