Rumor: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) LXXXI

[dahrougem2]

And yet I'd say it's harder to trade for an EJ than a Varly, so I'd lean towards that trade being more important.

How many pretty good starters have been traded since or around Varly's time? Lehtonen, Schneider, Bernier, Bishop, Luongo... plus the ones out of free agency.

But I'd argue the only goaltender who is near Varly's level is Schneider. Lehtonen and Bernier aren't very good, Bishop is inconsistent, and Luongo while having a very good season isn't what he used to be.

 

[Avs71]

Avs possibly unwise for not paying for potential and giving him a long-term contract? Probably smart move by them at the time but they're going to pay for it now. Just like they did with O'Reilly.

I think it was mentioned somewhere they had a long term deal on the table for him, but Barrie wanted to roll the dice and prove he was worth more.

 

[Freudian]

The difference between a great goalie and a good goalie is that a great goalie has better season to season consistency. I'm not sure Varlamov have turned into a great goalie, but I like to think so. Considering the team defense in front of him, he's been doing an amazing job under Roy.

Good goalies can have a brilliant year followed by an average year. Lehtonen is a good example of a goalie like that. When he's on, he's scary good.

 

[FoppaForsberg*]

Signing longterm before really establishing yourself is a risky move, where as signing a bridge and then signing the long term is much less risky, just more pricey finically.

Do you get a JVR/Turris/Mark Giordano type of bargain? Or do you get a contract that you end up regretting?

 

[Foppa2118]

Considering he wasn't that good for that 90% of the time, and has only gotten worse/more inconsistent since EJ went out, yeah, that would be an accurate statement. The guy has been inconsistent no matter the role or situation he has been placed in all year. At this point in time he isn't a top4 guy.

I don't know why you keep asking me questions about Holden, Stuart etc. What else do I have to say to let you know that I'm not comparing them, and that I get your point why it's not a bad idea to keep him around?

He has been playing a lesser role recently, even 3rd pairing some games.

[MOD]

I see we're going down the usual path here for some reason. Just to get back on track, I know you're not comparing Hejda to anyone else. I am. That's the context I'm trying to bring up. Hejda in a lesser role instead of Guenin, Redmond, etc.

You're disagreeing that the problem is Hejda playing in a first pairing role, and that's the main reason people view his play so negatively. You're saying it doesn't matter what role he plays in. "EJ or no EJ, 1st pair or 3rd, tough match ups or not."

Considering he's only not played as a true first pairing D man against the toughest matchups for maybe 10-20 games (which also includes games where he's battling through injury like now) the last two years, his play in lesser role is not significantly affecting how you view him. His play as a first pairing defender, which makes up almost the entirety of his last two years, is what has formed your opinion. Unless you and others are only evaluating Jan Hejda on the last 10 games or so, which I don't believe is the case. That's why I suggested that characterization of him playing bad no matter what role he's in wasn't accurate, since it makes up such a small portion of the games he's played.

If you think he hasn't been good for 90% of the games the last two years that's fine if you feel that way. I think that's incredibly exaggerated but that's fine.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

[MOD]

The number of games he has played in a lesser role is irrelevant. Either you agree that his play hasn't been good without a EJ while in a lesser role, or you disagree and think he has played good. The number of games doesn't change the accuracy of that statement.

The only thing incredibly exaggerated is, once again, what you claim I'm saying. No way in hell did I say "he hasn't been good for 90% of the games". And we have been talking about this year, so your claim that I think he has been bad the past 2 years is just more BS. This tactic of putting words in my mouth and exaggerating what I'm saying is annoying and ridiculous. Please stop doing it.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Last summer, Jarome Iginla and Benoit Pouliot took one less year than the Islanders offered

isles offered more term for pouliot and he still went to edmonton instead??

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-video-review-tabled-gm-meetings/

 

[UncleRisto]

isles offered more term for pouliot and he still went to edmonton instead??

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-video-review-tabled-gm-meetings/

With the Isles being my Eastern team, I'm glad.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Guys, please I asked you to not post about each other personally. Debate all you want just don't take it personal. I'll be deleting from this point forward

 

[Avs_19]

Someone reported that Isles offer in the summer too. I'm a big Iggy fan but I know that third year is likely going to be rough. Four years would have been really bad.

 

[Foppa2118]

Someone reported that Isles offer in the summer too. I'm a big Iggy fan but I know that third year is likely going to be rough. Four years would have been really bad.

The Isles seemingly can't help themselves with long contracts. Offering too long a term has been their MO for years. Even with Wang on his way out (I assume that's still happening it seems complicated) they still went 7 years on a physical 31 year old Boychuk, who seems like the poster boy for a D man that will regress a lot around 35. They're just a dice rolling kind of franchise.

 

[TheStranger]

The Isles seemingly can't help themselves with long contracts. Offering too long a term has been their MO for years. Even with Wang on his way out (I assume that's still happening it seems complicated) they still went 7 years on a physical 31 year old Boychuk, who seems like the poster boy for a D man that will regress a lot around 35. They're just a dice rolling kind of franchise.

Though things should be changing now with the team actually competing, but throwing extra years at players might just be their way of convincing guys to stay/come to the team.

 

[Foppa2118]

Though things should be changing now with the team actually competing, but throwing extra years at players might just be their way of convincing guys to stay/come to the team.

Yea I mean, I understand it in that regard. They have to do something to convince guys to sign there since they've had trouble in that area.

Ironically I've always wondered if that kind of circus act reputation might have been what caused players to want to stay away. I don't think it was the lack of success, since other teams didn't have problems getting certain players, and Long Island's as nice as most places to live. Just seems like even if the Isles overpaid for players they couldn't get them to sign or stay.

Does feel like that's changing a bit though with Leddy and Boychuk on board. Maybe that will lead to future players saying, "well if they signed there...."

 

[Bender]

I just wish we were pressing the reset button on our defense next year (aside from Barrie and EJ of course). I doubt I'd bring any of them back. I feel like Siemens has to be better than at least one of these guys getting NHL minutes but won't get the call because of contract situations.

Not to change the subject...or actually...to change the subject......I dunno, I understand what you're saying but I don't necessarily see it the same way. The Avs have certain pieces right now and people seem to believe that having them in our lineup keeps us from acquiring other pieces.

For example, just because we have Holden signed long-term at a paltry $1.65M beginning next year, it doesn't mean he's holding down a top-4 spot for the next 3 years...at least, I don't see it that way. I do believe that having a guy like Holden signed to that contract (and when I say a guy like Holden, I'm talking about the guy who's been playing since roughly after x-mas and NOT the abomination that had been wearing his number prior to that to start the season) is important if you want to be competitive at some point because he can slot down in your lineup.

If every single d-man in your lineup is making $3M +, you'd better be a good team because if not, you're likely right against the cap.

So for next year, Sakic and Roy are not idiots, they know what's up even if they say stuff like "we like our group" they'll be working hard to bring in some help on the back end. We need TWO top-4 d-men, I think there's a decent chance we acquire ONE and the other might be through trade OR the year after that.

*2015 UFA - EJ
**Hejda - Barrie
Holden - Stuart
Redmond - Guenin

You can't go into next season and NOT improve the D in the hopes that either Siemens or Bigras are ready. If they are ready and earn their spot, they can simmer in the minors while you make some sort of trade. It's a great problem to have. The opposite could turn out to be a nightmare.

* I could see a guy like Beauchemin being of interest if the Avs miss out on Ehrhoff or Sekera. The nice thing about him is that he could likely slot down to the middle pairing for 2016. I say that but then again, you know there's going to be some go nowhere stupid team that's going to offer him a Pejorative Slured 4-year term like the leafs. (Robidas)

** If Hejda is brought back, I think it will be on a 1 year term. If he leaves and signs as a UFA, I could see a guy like Oduya coming in to take his spot on the middle pairing. While hawks fans like to dump on him, they certainly haven't had any Guenins or Holdens at their worst in their lineup and Oduya's a solid yet unspectacular player. He'll give you decent minutes and can move the puck.

So I don't see it as much as a 'reset' as I do the fact that we currently have some pieces that are nice to have around for depth. I don't mind Guenin and what he can sometimes bring (he hasn't been nearly as bad of late but tends to have really horrible stretches) as a depth guy in case of injuries. He's certainly not a top-4 guy and asking him to play as one...well, you're kind of asking for trouble.

 

[TheStranger]

Yeah my favourite is when people take them not running their defense into the ground or even praising the guys on the team is them believing the defense is fine. They're not going to stab their players in the back to the media. I believe that they know what the situation is and they'll fix it when they can, we don't need to hear them say "Yeah Holden and Guenin are garbage, hope they continue playing hard for us for the rest of the season though!"

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

If Jumbo Joe eventually accepts a trade out of SJS, I'd like the Avs to take a run at him. He's a giant center like Roy wants, he only has two years left and is still quite productive. Plus, I've always been a Jumbo Joe fan. Would it be the smartest decision ever? No. Would I love it? Yes.

 

[agentblack]

Thornton's heading to FLA. Book it.

 

[TheStranger]

If Jumbo Joe eventually accepts a trade out of SJS, I'd like the Avs to take a run at him. He's a giant center like Roy wants, he only has two years left and is still quite productive. Plus, I've always been a Jumbo Joe fan. Would it be the smartest decision ever? No. Would I love it? Yes.

I don't see what assets we have that wouldn't undercut our team and hurt it more than help it. Also if O'Reilly is hanging around, then we have Duchene, Mackinnon, Thornton and O'Reilly

 

[Avsboy]

Thornton is exactly the player this team needs.

 

[member 116861]

Please no more old people.

 

[AvsRobin]

Thornton is exactly the player this team needs.

Really? Is he a LD around the same age as the core?

 

[Avsboy]

Really? Is he a LD around the same age as the core?

I was considering adding in the need for a LD as a tie, but I do believe a big minute-munching center with good passing would help this team more than anything. I mentioned earlier during the worst point of the season that someone like Kopitar or Thornton would be perfect. There would be no more offensive struggles. It would make the Avs an All Star team up front.

Now before automatically thinking Stastny was that center....you're wrong. Stastny was always overrated and makes way too much money. He was money on the PP in terms of setting it up, but not much else.

 

[TheStranger]

I was considering adding in the need for a LD as a tie, but I do believe a big minute-munching center with good passing would help this team more than anything. I mentioned earlier during the worst point of the season that someone like Kopitar or Thornton would be perfect. There would be no more offensive struggles. It would make the Avs an All Star team up front.

Now before automatically thinking Stastny was that center....you're wrong. Stastny was always overrated and makes way too much money. He was money on the PP in terms of setting it up, but not much else.

Oh yeah, all Stastny did last year was set up on the powerplay.

 

[Foppa2118]

Thornton is exactly the player this team needs.

I agree but only if they don't re-sign ROR, and only if they don't plan on MacKinnon going back to center. I have my doubts that both will play out that way.

 

[agentblack]

I was so sure ROR was getting traded, but im really thinking they re-sign him. I bet they will wait till the last minute if thats what it takes.