Rumor: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) LXXXI

[tucker3434]

I just wish we were pressing the reset button on our defense next year (aside from Barrie and EJ of course). I doubt I'd bring any of them back. I feel like Siemens has to be better than at least one of these guys getting NHL minutes but won't get the call because of contract situations.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Hm this is a good question actually. For me it changes based on the night. Stuart and Guenin seem to crash harder when they are bad it's REALLY bad. Redmond is better when he's not asked to do too much and the fancy stats people seem to believe he's decent. Holden seems to have longer peaks and valleys. Considering the money Stuart is the worst. The guy with the least amount of talent is Guenin.

i'd have stuart above holden and guenin and above redmond for now. but i'd prefer to keep redmond there on 3RD.

he's playing way above his head now but i think he can be very solid #5.

Good points made here. Redmond has been quite acceptable on the 3rd pairing. He's been overly exposed the more minutes he plays.

Amusingly, Holden doesn't seem to get any better or worse the more minutes he plays, he's still just as mediocre as ever.

 

[lonelybadger]

This upcoming offseason to me will be the deciding factor on if I approve of Roy/Sakic as front office members. They have made some very poor decisions (Berra and Stuart trades and extensions), some I am okay with (Briere trade comes to mind) and some things I am happy with (their recent drafting, trying to improve lake eerie) but I still cannot decide.

I am becoming increasingly worried that Roy and Sakic are aware of the defensive issues, but are not savy enough with roster management to do anything about it. They have shown they have no issue benching Berra with the Pickard call ups when Varlamov goes down, but constantly scratch or cast off to the minor leagues players like Redmond, Elliott, Noreau for stuart and guenin. Stuarts play the last half of the season has been better than the first half but neither of those players should feel like their spot on the roster is safe night in night out based on their play.

Realistically, I think if Roy and Sakic can improve the defense they will, and they will have no problem putting Guenin in the minors or Stuart in the press box, but based on their past moves it is hard to trust them.

 

[Iceberg]

This upcoming offseason to me will be the deciding factor on if I approve of Roy/Sakic as front office members. They have made some very poor decisions (Berra and Stuart trades and extensions), some I am okay with (Briere trade comes to mind) and some things I am happy with (their recent drafting, trying to improve lake eerie) but I still cannot decide.

I am becoming increasingly worried that Roy and Sakic are aware of the defensive issues, but are not savy enough with roster management to do anything about it. They have shown they have no issue benching Berra with the Pickard call ups when Varlamov goes down, but constantly scratch or cast off to the minor leagues players like Redmond, Elliott, Noreau for stuart and guenin. Stuarts play the last half of the season has been better than the first half but neither of those players should feel like their spot on the roster is safe night in night out based on their play.

Realistically, I think if Roy and Sakic can improve the defense they will, and they will have no problem putting Guenin in the minors or Stuart in the press box, but based on their past moves it is hard to trust them.

Well, Elliott did prove that right now he is no better than Guenin, and that he belong in the AHL for the moment.

 

[lonelybadger]

Well, Elliott did prove that right now he is no better than Guenin, and that he belong in the AHL for the moment.

I do agree with Elliott being sent down, it was just how stubborn Roy can seem to putting ahl defenseman and even certain skilled often injured forwards, in positions that would benefit both them as players and the team as a whole.

 

[dahrougem2]

I do agree with Elliott being sent down, it was just how stubborn Roy can seem to putting ahl defenseman and even certain skilled often injured forwards, in positions that would benefit both them as players and the team as a whole.

What exactly are you talking about?

 

[Avs71]

Hopefully Stuart looks better once some better defencemen are brought in, since you know, he's here for the next two years. 3rd pairing limited minutes, he might not be bad.

Barrie played 25 minutes last night. Hopefully the Avs can get that LH defenceman this summer that can eat minutes, allowing Barrie, EJ, and the new guy to eat as many minutes as possible.

Ranking the defencemen in order of Roy getting rid of them, I'd rank them like this (1 being most lilely):

1) Hejda- strictly due to contract being up.
2)Redmond- Don't think Roy is a huge fan, he only has one year left, and cold easily be waived and claimed.
3)Guenin- Only has next season under contract. Only plays about 16 minutes most night.
4)Holden- 2 years left after this season. Seemed like the coaches pet, but Roy has scratched him a few times this season.
5)Stuart- 2 years left, size, and vet presence. Everything Roy preaches except being that good. Can't see a team taking him off the Avs hands.

Would be nice if at least 2 of those defencemen are gone this summer, even if one has to be Hejda (would be a big bonus if it wasn't him). And then the two new defencemen brought in are upgrades.

 

[cgf]

I just wish we were pressing the reset button on our defense next year (aside from Barrie and EJ of course). I doubt I'd bring any of them back. I feel like Siemens has to be better than at least one of these guys getting NHL minutes but won't get the call because of contract situations.

Honestly, Holden's earned a spot IMO. He's a pretty dang solid third pairing guy who has stepped up in the playoffs last year and did so again when EJ went down this year; while also showing that he can be an adequate Barrie partner if they are used in the offensive role that pairing should be and he doesn't have his head up his ass like he did the first half of the season. At his price and his willingness to do whatever it takes to stick around, I think he's becoming a nice depth guy to keep around, like Malkin has done up front. I wouldn't be upset if he left, but I also don't desperately want it to happen like I do Guenin/Cliche/Gervais, and we'd need to have an upgrade lined up.

I also like having Stuart on this team. He may suck with the puck, but he's been great for the PK, gives our D a mean streak we lack otherwise, and is a fine stay-at-home type third-pairing-guy at ES. Not to mention that I think he'll be a very good mentor for Siemens and/or Zadorov if they're ever on the team with him. Again wouldn't be upset if he left, but I don't think it's something that needs to happen unless we need to make room for an upgrade.

Hejda's in a similar spot, I like what he can bring in a very specific role, but he needs to be in a smaller role than he has played for us and we need to bring a real EJ partner in regardless of if he stays or not, so he could need to go to make space.

All in all I would be pretty pleased going into next season with:
Martin* - EJ
Hejda - Barrie
Holden - Stuart
(Redmond/Noreau)

with Siemens/Bigras competing in Lake Erie to get a call up as the season wears on...assuming no ROR-trade. In case of a ROR trade I don't see how we could keep all of the bottom 3; both from a fiscal perspective, as we'll have to pay up for a ROR replacement in UFA; as well as from an openings perspective, as the young LHD we can get for ROR is almost certainly going to start next season in the bottom 4, probably on the third pairing with Holden or Stuart. So unless we want Hejda playing EJ again we'll still have to find a hejda-upgrade in UFA.

But if they did re-sign ROR I'd be happy with that D until our kids can force their way into those jobs as letting Dmen over-develop is never a bad thing; and in those smaller roles Hejda, Holden, and Stuart could a very good job with EJ, Barrie, EJ-Partner, and our forwards ahead of them, and Varly/Picks backing them up.

 

[avsfan89]

Insert Bigras + another LD that's top 4 material and all of a sudden Holden and Stuart will be just fine playing 3rd pairing minutes. Or one of stuart, holden or redmond is traded. But really I'd only want 2 of the 3 back

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

4)Holden- 2 years left after this season. Seemed like the

3 years left after this season.

 

[lonelybadger]

If the play of Johnson and Barrie continues at the same (or even higher ) level, between the two of them they can make up the right side of a defensive pairing for almost the entire duration of even strength play. Redmond is fine for the other portion and is offensive enough for the powerplay. I don't see a problem with stuart playing 3rd line minutes and PK (assuming he remembers to clear the crease), but there is still the hole of a top pairing and middle pairing left d to play with Johnson and Barrie. Holden and Guenin are not the solutions, wishful thinking says that Siemens or Bigas can fill middle pairing minutes next year (but Bigras still has not played at the pro level and Siemens has been too injured to really make and show progress). Hejda can play with Johnson but he is getting too old to play that many minutes. There should still be some aging/lower level top pairing left d available this offseason and there is always the possibility of a ROR trade, but if the UFA market strikes out and ROR is resigned there is still that glaring need on D.

And if ROR is traded for D it will throw Mack to learning to play C and leave another top 6 spot open that the avs really have no one internally to fill with (Bleackley is not there yet and mcginn can fill in but is not a bonafide top 6)

 

[Avs_19]

Hejda's mistakes in the D zone are becoming more frequent and he has zero puck skill. Time to move on. They already messed up by not moving him for a pick, don't make it even worse by extending him now.

 

[AvsRobin]

Hejda's mistakes in the D zone are becoming more frequent and he has zero puck skill. Time to move on. They already messed up by not moving him for a pick, don't make it even worse by extending him now.

Maybe they are pretty much forced to extend him to justify not trading him?

 

[UncleRisto]

Hejda's mistakes in the D zone are becoming more frequent and he has zero puck skill. Time to move on. They already messed up by not moving him for a pick, don't make it even worse by extending him now.

I'm afraid you have to start preparing for worse.

 

[Former Ladder]

Hejda's mistakes in the D zone are becoming more frequent and he has zero puck skill. Time to move on. They already messed up by not moving him for a pick, don't make it even worse by extending him now.

I think he is still injured. I agree that they should have moved him for a pick and move on from him but he is not as bad as he has been. It seems like he is barely getting ice time anymore too.

I think they resign him for one year while prospects get ready in the AHL. Bigras, Geertsen and maybe Siemens could realistically graduate the following year.

 

[Iceberg]

Maybe they are pretty much forced to extend him to justify not trading him?

After letting Stastny go, i don't think Sakic is worried about justifying not trading Hejda.

He can simply say they are chasing the playoffs and didn't want to mess with the team.

Sakic is the best!!!!

 

[Cypher]

Honestly, Holden's earned a spot IMO. He's a pretty dang solid third pairing guy who has stepped up in the playoffs last year and did so again when EJ went down this year; while also showing that he can be an adequate Barrie partner if they are used in the offensive role that pairing should be and he doesn't have his head up his ass like he did the first half of the season. At his price and his willingness to do whatever it takes to stick around, I think he's becoming a nice depth guy to keep around, like Malkin has done up front. I wouldn't be upset if he left, but I also don't desperately want it to happen like I do Guenin/Cliche/Gervais, and we'd need to have an upgrade lined up.

I also like having Stuart on this team. He may suck with the puck, but he's been great for the PK, gives our D a mean streak we lack otherwise, and is a fine stay-at-home type third-pairing-guy at ES. Not to mention that I think he'll be a very good mentor for Siemens and/or Zadorov if they're ever on the team with him. Again wouldn't be upset if he left, but I don't think it's something that needs to happen unless we need to make room for an upgrade.

Hejda's in a similar spot, I like what he can bring in a very specific role, but he needs to be in a smaller role than he has played for us and we need to bring a real EJ partner in regardless of if he stays or not, so he could need to go to make space.

All in all I would be pretty pleased going into next season with:
Martin* - EJ
Hejda - Barrie
Holden - Stuart
(Redmond/Noreau)

with Siemens/Bigras competing in Lake Erie to get a call up as the season wears on...assuming no ROR-trade. In case of a ROR trade I don't see how we could keep all of the bottom 3; both from a fiscal perspective, as we'll have to pay up for a ROR replacement in UFA; as well as from an openings perspective, as the young LHD we can get for ROR is almost certainly going to start next season in the bottom 4, probably on the third pairing with Holden or Stuart. So unless we want Hejda playing EJ again we'll still have to find a hejda-upgrade in UFA.

But if they did re-sign ROR I'd be happy with that D until our kids can force their way into those jobs as letting Dmen over-develop is never a bad thing; and in those smaller roles Hejda, Holden, and Stuart could a very good job with EJ, Barrie, EJ-Partner, and our forwards ahead of them, and Varly/Picks backing them up.

I would go with the same defense we've been hoping for ever summer year after year:

UFA - Johnson
UFA - Barrie
Pylon/Guenin - Pylon/Stuart
Pylon/Holden - Pylon/Redmond

The only variable from year to year is the available UFAs that the Avs never get; this summer being Sekera and Ehrhoff

 

[lonelybadger]

What exactly are you talking about?

I should have clarified more. I just meant some roster decisions Roy makes are head scratchers to me. Mcleod, Talbot, Caron on the top two lines while briere (although he has been pretty useless) hishon and tanguay are on the 3rd and fourth lines. I know a lot of it has to do with him not being comfortable with the AHl talent and the prospect pool but it does not take much hockey knowledge to know that talbot or mcleod do not offer much to Duchene and Iginla.

 

[dahrougem2]

I should have clarified more. I just meant some roster decisions Roy makes are head scratchers to me. Mcleod, Talbot, Caron on the top two lines while briere (although he has been pretty useless) hishon and tanguay are on the 3rd and fourth lines. I know a lot of it has to do with him not being comfortable with the AHl talent and the prospect pool but it does not take much hockey knowledge to know that talbot or mcleod do not offer much to Duchene and Iginla.

Well one can say that, but then you have to look deeper. Tanguay and Everberg seem to play well together, and Roy isn't going to split up Duchene and Iginla so the move makes sense. If Talbot goes to the 3rd line, they get even worse because Talbot and Mitchell are both useless and it would likely drag Everberg's game down. The Tanguay-Duchene-Iginla line was also stagnant for a bit so it needed a change.

McLeod in the top-6 is pretty simple to me. Guy has been playing arguably the best hockey of his career since the new year and deserves to be rewarded. Is it permanent? No, and as we saw last night, McLeod was on the 4th line again. But who do they have to play with O'Reilly and Landeskog? MacKinnon, McGinn and Rendulic are all hurt. Hishon is a bandaid disguised as a hockey player, and the rest of the prospect pool in LE isn't very good.

Caron was an experiment that probably ended yesterday since he didn't see a second of ice-time in the 3rd.

Even the defence pairings, we literally have nothing else to use. Siemens isn't ready, and nobody else in LE is worthy of playing above even the General Guenin, that's how bad our previous regime did with regard to our prospect pool and AHL depth.

Roy makes some odd choices at times, but I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt more often since it's only 1.5 years into his tenure

 

[Avsboy]

This team isn't so bad. Fix the D and add depth and we're good. Injuries have been a killer; Varly in net yesterday and we win it.

It's ironic how "iceberg" and "Ice Crusher" are in a dispute.

 

[tucker3434]

Honestly, Holden's earned a spot IMO. He's a pretty dang solid third pairing guy who has stepped up in the playoffs last year and did so again when EJ went down this year; while also showing that he can be an adequate Barrie partner if they are used in the offensive role that pairing should be and he doesn't have his head up his ass like he did the first half of the season. At his price and his willingness to do whatever it takes to stick around, I think he's becoming a nice depth guy to keep around, like Malkin has done up front. I wouldn't be upset if he left, but I also don't desperately want it to happen like I do Guenin/Cliche/Gervais, and we'd need to have an upgrade lined up.

I also like having Stuart on this team. He may suck with the puck, but he's been great for the PK, gives our D a mean streak we lack otherwise, and is a fine stay-at-home type third-pairing-guy at ES. Not to mention that I think he'll be a very good mentor for Siemens and/or Zadorov if they're ever on the team with him. Again wouldn't be upset if he left, but I don't think it's something that needs to happen unless we need to make room for an upgrade.

Hejda's in a similar spot, I like what he can bring in a very specific role, but he needs to be in a smaller role than he has played for us and we need to bring a real EJ partner in regardless of if he stays or not, so he could need to go to make space.

All in all I would be pretty pleased going into next season with:
Martin* - EJ
Hejda - Barrie
Holden - Stuart
(Redmond/Noreau)

with Siemens/Bigras competing in Lake Erie to get a call up as the season wears on...assuming no ROR-trade. In case of a ROR trade I don't see how we could keep all of the bottom 3; both from a fiscal perspective, as we'll have to pay up for a ROR replacement in UFA; as well as from an openings perspective, as the young LHD we can get for ROR is almost certainly going to start next season in the bottom 4, probably on the third pairing with Holden or Stuart. So unless we want Hejda playing EJ again we'll still have to find a hejda-upgrade in UFA.

But if they did re-sign ROR I'd be happy with that D until our kids can force their way into those jobs as letting Dmen over-develop is never a bad thing; and in those smaller roles Hejda, Holden, and Stuart could a very good job with EJ, Barrie, EJ-Partner, and our forwards ahead of them, and Varly/Picks backing them up.

I don't necessarily hate a Holden-Stuart bottom pairing. I do hate they'll be making just a hair under $5m combined for two more years and that we can't ease Bigras/Siemens into the NHL in a limited bottom pairing role for the foreseeable future. I think it's basically a blockade for the youngsters trying to crack the lineup. I don't like the thought of moving either Stuart or Holden up, because both tend to get exposed when asked to do too much.

Hejda is Hejda. He's solid, but he's really no more than a bottom pairing defenseman on a good team. We're playing him as a top 4/2. We'll see how much money he gets. If we can pay him like a bottom pairing defender, bring him back. If not, throw that money towards a UFA signing.

This summer will certainly be interesting.

 

[lonelybadger]

Well one can say that, but then you have to look deeper. Tanguay and Everberg seem to play well together, and Roy isn't going to split up Duchene and Iginla so the move makes sense. If Talbot goes to the 3rd line, they get even worse because Talbot and Mitchell are both useless and it would likely drag Everberg's game down. The Tanguay-Duchene-Iginla line was also stagnant for a bit so it needed a change.

McLeod in the top-6 is pretty simple to me. Guy has been playing arguably the best hockey of his career since the new year and deserves to be rewarded. Is it permanent? No, and as we saw last night, McLeod was on the 4th line again. But who do they have to play with O'Reilly and Landeskog? MacKinnon, McGinn and Rendulic are all hurt. Hishon is a bandaid disguised as a hockey player, and the rest of the prospect pool in LE isn't very good.

Caron was an experiment that probably ended yesterday since he didn't see a second of ice-time in the 3rd.

Even the defence pairings, we literally have nothing else to use. Siemens isn't ready, and nobody else in LE is worthy of playing above even the General Guenin, that's how bad our previous regime did with regard to our prospect pool and AHL depth.

Roy makes some odd choices at times, but I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt more often since it's only 1.5 years into his tenure

Why not put talbot as 4th line center and put cliche in the press box?

After reading your point it is clear that this is more of an injury/depth and prospect talent problem than a Roy problem though. Having McGinn and Winchester out for the entire season really took away forward depth. Rendulic came in and was decent but then even he got hurt, and I know bords gets a lot of flack but I like him and he is a great 12/13 forward because his effort level is there and the team really seems to like him. Assuming no trades or FA signings the roster next year could look something like

tanguay - duchene - iginla
lando - ror - mack
everberg - mitchell - mcginn
mcleod - winchester - rendulic (although I hate putting him on the fourth line)
(Cliche/Bords)

*you could change tanguay/everberg/mcginn around as well. And role mcginn - duchene - iginla then tanguay - mitchell - everberg

And maybe even the year after that pencil in bleackley to the number 3 center role would be good too. I have seen him play about a dozen times in Red Deer and although he is not an elite talent by any means, he has enough skill and finish to fit in for spot duty in the top 6 and should easily be a reliable 3rd line center.

Man I wish this season was over.....

 

[cgf]

I would go with the same defense we've been hoping for ever summer year after year:

UFA - Johnson
UFA - Barrie
Pylon/Guenin - Pylon/Stuart
Pylon/Holden - Pylon/Redmond

The only variable from year to year is the available UFAs that the Avs never get; this summer being Sekera and Ehrhoff

That would be why I don't mind retaining Hejda to play with Barrie while Bigras, Siemens and Gaertsen develop as long as ROR stays and someone like Martin is signed. So we'd just need one UFA, and this summer will be the best chance we've had so far, the team is in the best position to chase the top LHDs that they've been in, there's more viable/quality options than in years past, and we should have a genuinely good chance to pull in Martin the way they drew in Iggy last summer. If ROR is traded and/or we strikeout in FA the whole situation changes.

Also having Guenin ahead of Holden is crazy to me, Holden's been a solid NHLer for most of his time here, outside of the disastrous start to this season; while Guenin has never played better than a mediocre AHL middle-pairing guy. Holden and Stuart haven't been nearly as bad as the meme would you to believe. Though they are both third pairing guys who will ideally, one day soon, be battling for the 6th Dman job. But that's a hell of a lot better than Guenin. Guenin shouldn't even be eating nachos at the Pepsi Center, he should playing in Gervais' place for the monsters.

 

[Ice Crusher]

No read the post before that, the one i said Sakic wouldn't sign Hejda JUST to justify not trading him at the deadline.

I was responding to another poster.

And actually, you were being sarcastic about Sakic being the best. And I responded to that also.

 

[cgf]

I don't necessarily hate a Holden-Stuart bottom pairing. I do hate they'll be making just a hair under $5m combined for two more years and that we can't ease Bigras/Siemens into the NHL in a limited bottom pairing role for the foreseeable future. I think it's basically a blockade for the youngsters trying to crack the lineup. I don't like the thought of moving either Stuart or Holden up, because both tend to get exposed when asked to do too much.

Hejda is Hejda. He's solid, but he's really no more than a bottom pairing defenseman on a good team. We're playing him as a top 4/2. We'll see how much money he gets. If we can pay him like a bottom pairing defender, bring him back. If not, throw that money towards a UFA signing.

This summer will certainly be interesting.

I don't see it being a blockade as too much of an issue. I think both Dunk and Bigras should start next season in lake erie, and as the season progresses I expect one of them to earn a call up. By the time they've done that there's a good chance injures will have opened up a spot for the kid to step into already, or at the very least someone is likely to be banged up enough for the kid to get some serious looks in practice and maybe spell the injured player every game or two for a week or two. If Holden-Stuart were going to be the nacho-eaters and we had a better third pairing above them, then I'd worry about blocking the kids, but with injuries being a real thing, I have no worries about third-pairing+healthyscratch consisting of Holden, Stuart and Redmond/Noreau/Guenin.

I also don't think letting prospects over-ripen is a bad thing if they're continuing to advance and don't stagnate, especially with dman, and even moreso with big dmen like Siemens, Gaertsen and Wood. Not to mention I don't hate Holden-Barrie when Holden's not palying like ass and they're used in the offensive role they should be, even if Holden doesn't start to make progress with his skating coach in the summer.

Agreed on Hejda being dependent on price, but I do think he can be a fine #4 next to the right partner (like Barrie), granted the difference between an adequate 4 and a good 5 isn't that big. If he does re-sign for cheap I'll be happy though. As Barrie's partner he should hold up better than he does playing the huge minutes with EJ, and if we ever have the depth to push him down into Stuart's job next to holden we'll have a really good D. But keeping him isn't a priority, the priority has to be Martin/Erhoff/Sekera and Soderberg/Vermette if we trade ROR.