Rumor: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) LIV

[Averick*]

Everyone is aware Stastny might leave if it comes to UFA status (hell you were attacking AB a week ago on the main boards when he raised his concerns about Stastny, saying there's no way Paul will leave), but your conspiracy theories are going a bit too far.

How is it a conspiracy theory? How is your outlook more valid than others? Someone just blew up at me for saying this without being privy. But that's a two-way street. When Paul said he wanted to stay, the unmentioned and implied caveat could have easily been "as long as they pay me what FMV". Many chose and choose to interpret that to mean he's willing to engage in give and take. But there's nothing to prove that was correct from the beginning. Neither interpretation is more valid than the other. But the former would be consistent in a scenario where it goes past the deadline. The latter interpretation would make sense if a deal gets done before. The closer it gets to the deadline, the more the former interpretation seems correct.

Of course he could have just been blowing smoke too.

 

[Frenchy]

Yup, Sherman in retrospect did do something's pretty well after all.

Varly and EJ trades look pretty good too.

I agree ,

The Ryan O'byrne trade was bad , other than that Sherman did a good job .

 

[ABasin]

I don't think Tyson Barrie should be on ANYONE'S trade list.

He's got 21 points in his last 27 games played. Even if he was playing horrible defensively, which he is not, that's some pretty frickin' amazing stats right there.

The past 20 games or so, he's been playing exceptionally well BOTH offensively and defensively.

I wouldn't move a guy that young, showing what he's showing right now for either Elder or Ehrhoff straight-up! In fact, we need to get Barrie locked up as soon as possible.

I don't want to see them move Barrie either (let's not repeat the Shattenkirk assumption - that this type of offense coming from the blueline is easy to find). But that dude is not playing exceptionally well defensively. He's been average - I'll go as far as 'decent at times' - and that's it. I don't believe Tyson Barrie played exceptional defense in any consistent multi-game manner.

But, I'm also OK with that. He's playing better defense than he did last year, which is good. He's 22 years old and has played a grand total of 80something NHL games in his life. And his offense has been terrific. No problems at all from my perspective.

The Avs defense as a whole isn't playing that well in their own zone. One thing they have done though, is minimize the massive, ugly mistakes (3-on-1s, wide open guys in the slot, easy passes through the box on the PK, etc) that plagued the team for years. So that's a good thing.

 

[Ivan13]

How is it a conspiracy theory? How is your outlook more valid than others? Someone just blew up at me for saying this without being privy. But that's a two-way street. When Paul said he wanted to stay, the unmentioned and implied caveat could have easily been "as long as they pay me what FMV". Many chose and choose to interpret that to mean he's willing to engage in give and take. But there's nothing to prove that was correct from the beginning. Neither interpretation is more valid than the other. But the former would be consistent in a scenario where it goes past the deadline. The latter interpretation would make sense if a deal gets done before. The closer it gets to the deadline, the more the former interpretation seems correct.

Of course he could have just been blowing smoke too.

Where did I bring up my outlook? You're the only one making wild stabs in the dark trying to interpret what Paul is saying and some of your theories are beyond hilarious.

 

[Averick*]

Where did I bring up my outlook? You're the only one making wild stabs in the dark trying to interpret what Paul is saying and some of your theories are beyond hilarious.

This discussion isn't about acknowledging that he might leave as much as it's about how to interpret what he said. You said it was conspiracy theory to suggest he was always more motivated by money than people wanted to believe based on how they interpreted his words when he said he wanted to stay.

 

[niwotsblessing]

I don't want to see them move Barrie either (let's not repeat the Shattenkirk assumption - that this type of offense coming from the blueline is easy to find). But that dude is not playing exceptionally well defensively. He's been average - I'll go as far as 'decent at times' - and that's it. I don't believe Tyson Barrie played exceptional defense in any consistent multi-game manner.

But, I'm also OK with that. He's playing better defense than he did last year, which is good. He's 22 years old and has played a grand total of 80something NHL games in his life. And his offense has been terrific. No problems at all from my perspective.

The Avs defense as a whole isn't playing that well in their own zone. One thing they have done though, is minimize the massive, ugly mistakes (3-on-1s, wide open guys in the slot, easy passes through the box on the PK, etc) that plagued the team for years. So that's a good thing.

The assumption when Shatty was traded was that one of Barrie or Elliott would replace his production several years down the line, and that is proving true.

Barrie's deficit is in his own zone, and he is not paired with a complementary defenseman who can cover for his stature while letting Barrie jump into plays consistently. Last year Hejda was that player and Barrie found good success at the end of the season on that pairing.

 

[Ivan13]

This discussion isn't about acknowledging that he might leave as much as it's about how to interpret what he said. You said it was conspiracy theory to suggest he was always more motivated by money than people wanted to believe based on how they interpreted his words when he said he wanted to stay.

My point was that there's no point in searching meaning in what he said because that can be interpreted in 1000 different ways depending on a number of factors and every scenario is as likely as the other because we have no idea about what's going on in his head, it's a pointless exercise.

 

[Freudian]

Barrie is passable along the boards and terrible in front of the net. He's good at puck retrieval and getting the puck out of trouble. He's good enough in transition defense.

That should be good enough if you pair him with a player that can cover for his weaknesses. When you pair him with Wilson, who looks lost these days, it's a mess. Wilson wanders off leaving Barrie to cover the front of the net.

I know we can't split Hejda and EJ up because they're carrying such a heavy load, but Barrie could use a Hejda.

Barrie is +14 on the year and he is the only defender that is on the ice for more shots for than against in 5on5, so it's not like he's killing us. He's just a small guy with all that implies defensively.

 

[ABasin]

Everyone is aware Stastny might leave if it comes to UFA status (hell you were attacking AB a week ago on the main boards when he raised his concerns about Stastny, saying there's no way Paul will leave), but your conspiracy theories are going a bit too far.

Wasn't that the Meeqs guy? BTW, in the end, he posted a completely reasonable and coherent finale to that discussion.

Trying to guess what's in someone's mind due to - or drawing conclusions from - a simple few words to the press isn't very useful, I don't think. Stastny has a (likely) once-in-a-lifetime opportunity here to maximize his income, by going to UFA. He may just wish to take advantage of that once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Can't blame him one bit. Many people would do (and have done) the same thing. Doesn't make what he said to the press a "lie", or make him dishonest, or anything else.

 

[Ivan13]

Wasn't that the Meeqs guy? BTW, in the end, he posted a completely reasonable and coherent finale to that discussion.

Trying to guess what's in someone's mind due to - or drawing conclusions from - a simple few words to the press isn't very useful, I don't think. Stastny has a (likely) once-in-a-lifetime opportunity here to maximize his income, by going to UFA. He may just wish to take advantage of that once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Can't blame him one bit. Many people would do (and have done) the same thing. Doesn't make what he said to the press a "lie", or make him dishonest, or anything else.

Yeah, I guess it could've been him, if that's the case I apologize to Averick.

As for the rest of the post, I agree with you, I'd just like to add that IMHO he could take a little bit less money just to join a contender, because I think he had enough of dysfunction and losing in the last handful of years to last him a lifetime. His upcoming marriage could and probably will play a part in his decision as well.

 

[Bender]

I don't want to see them move Barrie either (let's not repeat the Shattenkirk assumption - that this type of offense coming from the blueline is easy to find). But that dude is not playing exceptionally well defensively. He's been average - I'll go as far as 'decent at times' - and that's it. I don't believe Tyson Barrie played exceptional defense in any consistent multi-game manner.

But, I'm also OK with that. He's playing better defense than he did last year, which is good. He's 22 years old and has played a grand total of 80something NHL games in his life. And his offense has been terrific. No problems at all from my perspective.

The Avs defense as a whole isn't playing that well in their own zone. One thing they have done though, is minimize the massive, ugly mistakes (3-on-1s, wide open guys in the slot, easy passes through the box on the PK, etc) that plagued the team for years. So that's a good thing.

I re-read what I wrote initially and it didn't come off the way I meant it. So you are absolutely right and I'm not trying to convince anyone that Barrie is a defensive stalwart. However, the guy has been paired with Holden or Guenin for the past little while and even had to mop up after those guys on a regular basis.

Put it this way, the amount of times that I've shaken my head after a horrible defensive read has gone down dramatically in regards to Barrie for the past 20 games or so. (my neck is currently being treated medically for that, when it comes to Holden and Guenin)

It's kinda like when Karlsson started coming into his own with the Sens, everyone knew he was a bit suspect defensively but they didn't care because of the offense he brought. When Barrie gets his own Hejda-like partner, he'll likely be even better. That's my take on it.

 

[henchman21]

With the way Barrie has adapted to Roy's system and has been coachable within it, there is no way he should be traded. He solves one of our top 4D issues.

It really is the nearing the trade deadline... all the internet sources are starting their tweets with ***BREAKING NEWS***

 

[henchman21]

So shall we come up with some wild predictions?

Here are mine (none of which will happen and are probably off in value ):

Avs:
2015 Conditional 3rd round pick (on 60 games played in 2015, if not turns to a 5th)

Buffalo:
Ryan Wilson

Avs:
Chris Butler

Calgary:
2014 4th round pick

Avs:
Peter Andersson

Vancouver:
Joey Hishon

Stastny doesn't get re-signed nor does he get traded, but my prediction if he is traded:

Avs:
Artem Anisimov
Tim Erixon
2015 Conditional pick (1st if Stastny re-signs, 2nd if he doesn't)

Columbus
Paul Stastny

 

[Foppa2118]

Here's the thing I can never understand with this sentiment, and it comes up every time Barrie gets on a hot streak. Is this team really better off with Barrie than with a D man like Edler or Ehrhoff? They are clear cut better defenseman in my book, still youngish, and on good deals. People just can't let go of Barrie, it's like a weird addiction to a one dimensional offensive blueliner.

 

[DRL]

I'd like to see the avs check on chris Philips price tag. Be the perfect LH top 4 d to play again Barrie. Playoff veteran leadership. Cost would be the key though as were probably not going deep but to have that veteran presence could pay great dividends if price is right.

 

[henchman21]

Here's the thing I can never understand with this sentiment, and it comes up every time Barrie gets on a hot streak. Is this team really better off with Barrie than with a D man like Edler or Ehrhoff? They are clear cut better defenseman in my book, still youngish, and on good deals. People just can't let go of Barrie, it's like a weird addiction to a one dimensional offensive blueliner.

You are not getting a Edler or Ehrhoff for Barrie, so your point doesn't really hit. Barrie has decent value on the open market, but not enough to be a centerpiece for a big deal. He is equivalent to a Shattenkirk in the EJ deal, where Stewart was the centerpiece and Shattenkirk was worth roughly a 1st round pick.

 

[chet1926]

I'd like to see the avs check on chris Philips price tag. Be the perfect LH top 4 d to play again Barrie. Playoff veteran leadership. Cost would be the key though as were probably not going deep but to have that veteran presence could pay great dividends if price is right.

Rumor has it that Ottawa is looking for a 1st rd pick for Phillips... if that is the case then F that.

 

[Foppa]

Rumor has it that Ottawa is looking for a 1st rd pick for Phillips... if that is the case then F that.

Jesus H Christ.

Stay away for the love of god. I wouldn't deal a 3rd round pick for him.

 

[Foppa Frossa]

You are not getting a Edler or Ehrhoff for Barrie, so your point doesn't really hit. Barrie has decent value on the open market, but not enough to be a centerpiece for a big deal. He is equivalent to a Shattenkirk in the EJ deal, where Stewart was the centerpiece and Shattenkirk was worth roughly a 1st round pick.

I recall the Blues GM saying that the deal doesn't happen unless Shattenkirk comes back the other way.

 

[Foppa2118]

You are not getting a Edler or Ehrhoff for Barrie, so your point doesn't really hit. Barrie has decent value on the open market, but not enough to be a centerpiece for a big deal. He is equivalent to a Shattenkirk in the EJ deal, where Stewart was the centerpiece and Shattenkirk was worth roughly a 1st round pick.

My point hits because I'm the one that brought up Barrie including him in that list of assets I'd give up for Edler and Ehrhoff, and subsequently everyone reverted back to the "we can't trade Barrie" theme.

He may be equivalent to Shattenkirk in the EJ deal, but no one is assuming they'd be asking for someone with the trade value EJ had. He certainly had more than Ehrhoff and Edler. He was a former 1st overall pick, that was still young, and many thought it would be crazy for the Blues to move him.

Speaking of which, everyone is always worried about repeating the Shattenkirk situation by trading away Barrie, forgetting that trade worked out pretty well for the Avs. They got the better all around defenseman. That's why you include Barrie in a deal. You get the better all around defenseman.

 

[henchman21]

I recall the Blues GM saying that the deal doesn't happen unless Shattenkirk comes back the other way.

I recall that as well, but the center piece of the deal was Stewart. A young PF with 35g potential for a struggling young D with #1 potential. Shattenkirk was preferred over the other replacement D options because he was ready to step in right away. A deal with Elliott or Barrie would have caused the Blues to wait for development.

 

[Freudian]

Here's the thing I can never understand with this sentiment, and it comes up every time Barrie gets on a hot streak. Is this team really better off with Barrie than with a D man like Edler or Ehrhoff? They are clear cut better defenseman in my book, still youngish, and on good deals. People just can't let go of Barrie, it's like a weird addiction to a one dimensional offensive blueliner.

I think you have something against him. Pretty much every post about Barrie from you is complaining about him or suggesting he should be traded. If you say something positive about him, it's begrudgingly after he's had a fantastic game.

No one is disagreeing with Avs needing to upgrade the defense, but your insistence that Barrie has to go the other way is strange. He and EJ are the only keepers we have currently.

 

[henchman21]

My point hits because I'm the one that brought up Barrie including him in that list of assets I'd give up for Edler and Ehrhoff, and subsequently everyone reverted back to the "we can't trade Barrie" theme.

He may be equivalent to Shattenkirk in the EJ deal, but no one is assuming they'd be asking for someone with the trade value EJ had. He certainly had more than Ehrhoff and Edler. He was a former 1st overall pick, that many thought would be crazy for the Blues to move.

Speaking of which, everyone is always worried about repeating the Shattenkirk situation by trading away Barrie, forgetting that trade worked out pretty well for the Avs. They got the better all around defenseman. That's why you include Barrie in a deal. You get the better all around defenseman.

I don't believe that Barrie could be forced in a deal for Edler or Ehrhoff, he wouldn't be the asset either team would want. Niether team needs an offensive defensemen prospect. Barrie is not that good of a trade asset to fill the defensemen hole in the top 4.... Siemens is the best prospect asset the Avs have for that purpose.

 

[CobraAcesS]

My point hits because I'm the one that brought up Barrie including him in that list of assets I'd give up for Edler and Ehrhoff, and subsequently everyone reverted back to the "we can't trade Barrie" theme.

He may be equivalent to Shattenkirk in the EJ deal, but no one is assuming they'd be asking for someone with the trade value EJ had. He certainly had more than Ehrhoff and Edler. He was a former 1st overall pick, that many thought would be crazy for the Blues to move.

Speaking of which, everyone is always worried about repeating the Shattenkirk situation by trading away Barrie, forgetting that trade worked out pretty well for the Avs. They got the better all around defenseman. That's why you include Barrie in a deal. You get the better all around defenseman.

There is one major difference.... EJ was what? 23? At the time of the trade. Edler is 27 (Almost 28 in April), and Ehrhoff is 31...

Edler... I'd probably include Barrie in a trade for him. Simply because of comparable offensive ceilings, with the added bonus that Edler is a big mobile left handed defender.

I do think he could improve defensively in our system, and with a solid partner like EJ.

Ehrhoff? no ******* way, Barrie could surpass him in just about every aspect of the game within a year or two, especially as he gets older.

 

[ABasin]

Here's the thing I can never understand with this sentiment, and it comes up every time Barrie gets on a hot streak. Is this team really better off with Barrie than with a D man like Edler or Ehrhoff? They are clear cut better defenseman in my book, still youngish, and on good deals. People just can't let go of Barrie, it's like a weird addiction to a one dimensional offensive blueliner.

From a hockey standpoint, I'd take either Edler or Ehrhoff over Barrie, particularly Edler. The length of Ehrhoff's contract concerns me a bit though.

Don't think the Avs could get either of those two guys for Barrie though.