Rumor: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) LIV

[cgf]

With the yotes looking to buy and needing some scoring depth, I wonder if something around pap and gormley could be workable if we can't snag a vet like Erhoff or Markov.

 

[zxcvnm]

With the yotes looking to buy and needing some scoring depth, I wonder if something around pap and gormley could be workable if we can't snag a vet like Erhoff or Markov.

I'm personally not opposed to it provided Gormley is actually as good as advertised.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I'm personally not opposed to it provided Gormley is actually as good as advertised.

He's good but his name/junior hype makes him overrated. As a guy who sees every St. John's IceCaps home game I have seen a tonne of Gormley this year and while he's good he isn't as impressive as people make him out to be. I think Despres is better at this point but he a year older and who knows what the future will bring.

 

[shadow1]

With the yotes looking to buy and needing some scoring depth, I wonder if something around pap and gormley could be workable if we can't snag a vet like Erhoff or Markov.

I'd personally rather have Gormley than either of those two.

 

[cgf]

Yeah, I'd prefer a vet to fill our top 4, but I'm really high on Bigras and Siemens, and so don't have a problem with getting another Hejda like 2-3 year solution.

I actually kinda prefer it so our young core as a whole can gain better experience, then when Siemens and Bigras replaced Hejda and Markov they'd be coming into a team that already has good playoff experience.

But if we can't swing an oldie, someone on the cusp of the NHL like gormley, who could lock up that second pairing LHD spot sometime next year, works for me to. Wouldn't do much for our playoff push this year, but that's ok. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be upset even if we got swept, so this year to me is more about getting the core playoff experience so that next year we can plan to make some real noise.

 

[Foppa2118]

He's good but his name/junior hype makes him overrated. As a guy who sees every St. John's IceCaps home game I have seen a tonne of Gormley this year and while he's good he isn't as impressive as people make him out to be. I think Despres is better at this point but he a year older and who knows what the future will bring.

I haven't watched much of Gormley but I get the impression a smart offensive d man like him will shine more playing with NHL level talent who can better position themselves for passes and take advantage of his skills.

Same thing happened with Shattenkirk before he was called up.

BTW are you talking about his overall game or offensively? He's got decent numbers.

 

[cgf]

He's good but his name/junior hype makes him overrated. As a guy who sees every St. John's IceCaps home game I have seen a tonne of Gormley this year and while he's good he isn't as impressive as people make him out to be. I think Despres is better at this point but he a year older and who knows what the future will bring.

I'll cede to your great knowledge on this one as i view him more as a despres-comparable but have a pretty sparse viewing of him. Although as you say, that could just be the year that separates them.

 

[zxcvnm]

He's good but his name/junior hype makes him overrated. As a guy who sees every St. John's IceCaps home game I have seen a tonne of Gormley this year and while he's good he isn't as impressive as people make him out to be. I think Despres is better at this point but he a year older and who knows what the future will bring.

I think most people here would have a tough time judging such a trade simply because so few of us actually watch these guys regularly. We have to defer to the analysis of others. Certainly, you're more of an expert on him than pretty much everyone here.

I think a move of that type though still makes sense, if not for Gormley, then some other highly regarded defensive prospect. Gormley is the most obvious target given the Coyotes' logjam at LHD. I think a guy like Despres will be harder to get right now, especially in light of Letang's situation.

I also wonder how hard it is to analyze how a player is doing in the AHL. It's not like Shattenkirk was lighting it up in the minors before he was called up (granted, small sample size), but then he starts his career off for the Avs with a nice little point streak and has become a very good offensive defenseman.

EDIT: I see Foppa and I made the same point

 

[Cousin Eddie]

You guys are right. Plus I only see like 6-10 games where these guys play a year. Gormley may be the most dominant player on the ice every other game. He plays well when he's here but I just think Despres looked better. How that translates to the next level I really have no idea. Gormley certainly has more of an NHL frame. The guy is a monster.
With all the hype from experts I would assume Gormley will become better than Despres at the next level but I just want to give my sight as to how these guys look when they visit here. For what it's worth, JG Pageau was here this weekend and I didn't really even know he was playing. Some guys just show up to play sometimes while other don't. Some guys also bring more to different levels of play.

 

[henchman21]

Basically, in the group of great AHL defensemen who are top 4 potential D... they are all about the same. Erixon, Despres, Gormley, Morrow, Sproul, etc are all roughly the same level... young defensemen with top 4 upside (maybe a touch more in the right situation). I'm also really intrigued with Dahlbeck, but there is no way Chicago trades him to the Avs.

Depending on the price any one of them would be a good addition to the team.

"I'll probably be getting a phone call either way soon," Stastny said.

http://www.denverpost.com/avalanche/ci_25265628/avs-paul-stastny-unfazed-by-looming-trade-deadline

Sounds like we will all know soon.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Do you guys know much about Zach Redmond? He plays for the IceCaps and is just a fantastic defenseman (and no that isn't my homer talking )
The only reason he's in the A is because he's pretty much the only Jet defenseman who wouldn't have to clear waivers. He's physical, great defensively and puts up a lot of numbers. He pretty much controls the game when he plays. Reminds me of a lesser version of EJ really. If he stepped into our lineup right now he would definitely be our 4th best defenseman. Probably wouldn't take a lot to get him since Winnipeg has so many D, Would you guys want to throw a pick out there for him?

 

[henchman21]

Do you guys know much about Zach Redmond? He plays for the IceCaps and is just a fantastic defenseman (and no that isn't my homer talking )
The only reason he's in the A is because he's pretty much the only Jet defenseman who wouldn't have to clear waivers. He's physical, great defensively and puts up a lot of numbers. He pretty much controls the game when he plays. Reminds me of a lesser version of EJ really. If he stepped into our lineup right now he would definitely be our 4th best defenseman. Probably wouldn't take a lot to get him since Winnipeg has so many D, Would you guys want to throw a pick out there for him?

Personally, I don't see him as an upgrade over Holden. Really about the same level of player IMO.

 

[AvsWraith]

I'm guessing Stastny's agent is trying to leverage the fact that Stastny would be one of the top UFA's this summer while the Avs are trying to push a long term home town discount type of deal. This could be really bad if Staz's agent is seeking 7 Million per year or more.

 

[Avs44]

These things tend to take time, and what is being offered and what the player/agent want are frequently two different things.

True, but if Stastny really wants to stay here he could easily tell his agent to settle on a contract. The agent works for him. His agent is also a good friend of the Stastny family apparently.


If Stastny wants to stay here(and everything he's said indicates he does) and the Avs want to keep him(the fact that they are negotiating right now indicates that they do) it seems the holdup is probably money. If Stastny wants more than what he's currently making, trade him.

 

[henchman21]

True, but if Stastny really wants to stay here he could easily tell his agent to settle on a contract. The agent works for him.


If Stastny wants to stay here(and everything he's said indicates he does) and the Avs want to keep him(the fact that they are negotiating right now indicates that they do) it seems the holdup is probably money. If Stastny wants more than what he's currently making, trade him.

So could have ROR... so could have 99% of good free agents out there. This is the business part. Keator is just doing his job trying to get as much money for his client as possible.

 

[bromando]

Basically, in the group of great AHL defensemen who are top 4 potential D... they are all about the same. Erixon, Despres, Gormley, Morrow, Sproul, etc are all roughly the same level... young defensemen with top 4 upside (maybe a touch more in the right situation). I'm also really intrigued with Dahlbeck, but there is no way Chicago trades him to the Avs.

Depending on the price any one of them would be a good addition to the team.



http://www.denverpost.com/avalanche/ci_25265628/avs-paul-stastny-unfazed-by-looming-trade-deadline

Sounds like we will all know soon.

Lol, love that he said "half the time, people just write stuff" while interviewing with Dater. That's YOU, Dater.

Anyways, I really don't want to see Staz playing with another team. I hope they sign him or at least get a contract frame in place for summer.

 

[Pokecheque]

I don't blame Stastny if he doesn't want to take the "hometown discount." He's playing some of the best hockey of his career and is the top potential UFA center heading into July.

Conversely, I also don't think the Avs should put themselves in the position of overpaying in the one and only area where they have depth and talent to spare.

 

[Foppa2118]

What Stastny wants, and what his agent wants, are two different things.

In the end they should be the same thing, if you have a good agent that's interested in making sure his client is as happy as possible, rather than being more interested in boosting their own image, or their own cut from the bigger contract.

Something I think Newport is more interested in than serving their clients well being.

I'm a bit more optimistic about Stastny's agent Matt Keator. I found this little snippet about him interesting and kind of funny.

"Asked to recall a choice memory from his sports agent career, Keator shared this gem: “I had one Slovak client whose parrot got detained in customs coming into the U.S. and he called me in tears. He said ‘Matt, my parrot is no longer there! They stole it, they’re going to kill it!’ I spent probably 20 days straight on the phone trying to get this guy’s parrot back, and after they quarantined it for 30 days, the parrot was finally released to him. One of the happiest days of my life.”

http://theswellesleyreport.com/2011/03/wellesley-based-hockey-agent-has-seen-it-all/

 

[Avs71]

http://www.denverpost.com/avalanche/ci_25265628/avs-paul-stastny-unfazed-by-looming-trade-deadline

Sounds like we will all know soon.

Came here to post this quote. What I took from this was the Avs haven't given Stastny's agent, key word agent, an offer he wants to take to Stastny yet. I view this as a positive because it's not Stastny delaying talks right now. For all we know the Avs are simultaneously trying to sign him, while also shopping him around. Hopefully it's a situation where the Avs have a contract offer in place, and a trade in place. Knowing that he'll likely be shipped out, Stastny takes the contract offer and signs by Wednesday.

 

[Avs_19]

I'm guessing Stastny's agent is trying to leverage the fact that Stastny would be one of the top UFA's this summer while the Avs are trying to push a long term home town discount type of deal. This could be really bad if Staz's agent is seeking 7 Million per year or more.

Or a very easy decision for the Avs.

Lol, love that he said "half the time, people just write stuff" while interviewing with Dater. That's YOU, Dater.

Yeah, that's a shot at the guy asking the question.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Conversely, I also don't think the Avs should put themselves in the position of overpaying in the one and only area where they have depth and talent to spare.

Exactly. Stastny is a real good player and having a great year, but when you've got Duchene and MacKinnon (and ROR) in your back pocket, there's no need to overpay the guy when the team has other needs.

 

[cgf]

I don't blame Stastny if he doesn't want to take the "hometown discount." He's playing some of the best hockey of his career and is the top potential UFA center heading into July.

Conversely, I also don't think the Avs should put themselves in the position of overpaying in the one and only area where they have depth and talent to spare.

Sure, but overpaying for Staz would be 7.5+ per. What he's making already would be a sweet deal and up to ~7 would be fair.

This team should not shoot themselves in the foot when we finally have so much going for us over .5m a year when we have the cap space for it and Staz plays such a pivotal role for us.

Get a deal or a frame work done and unless Staz says he's leaving in the summer to get his 7.5+ per, hold onto him. He's worth so much more than what we'd get for him.

 

[Avs44]

So could have ROR... so could have 99% of good free agents out there. This is the business part. Keator is just doing his job trying to get as much money for his client as possible.

Except with Stastny it's a bit different. ROR wanted to get paid last year and quite honestly, he deserved it. The Avs were trying to offer him 3.5m and he wanted 5 million for 5 years. In hindsight, his demands were more than reasonable. ROR is now a part of the core and will remain with the Avs long term based off of what Dater and Roy have said. He's only 23.


If Stastny is all about the money, then let's face it, he's gone. His situation with the Avs is different than ROR's. Unless he's willing to take a discount for length and staying here he won't be a member of the Avs come September. So yes, I'm a bit worried they've not reached a contract yet. Roy does strike me as the type who'd make a lowball offer.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Sure, but overpaying for Staz would be 7.5+ per. What he's making already would be a sweet deal and up to ~7 would be fair.

This team should not shoot themselves in the foot when we finally have so much going for us over .5m a year when we have the cap space for it and Staz plays such a pivotal role for us.

Get a deal or a frame work done and unless Staz says he's leaving in the summer to get his 7.5+ per, hold onto him. He's worth so much more than what we'd get for him.

Sorry, but there's no way I would pay Stastny up to 7M to stay here. Not with Duchene, MacKinnon, and O'Reilly around. At some point you have to realize you can use those resources at other positions of need. It's nothing against Stastny as a player, it's just that's the one position the Avs are loaded at.

 

[Pokecheque]

Sure, but overpaying for Staz would be 7.5+ per. What he's making already would be a sweet deal and up to ~7 would be fair.

This team should not shoot themselves in the foot when we finally have so much going for us over .5m a year when we have the cap space for it and Staz plays such a pivotal role for us.

Get a deal or a frame work done and unless Staz says he's leaving in the summer to get his 7.5+ per, hold onto him. He's worth so much more than what we'd get for him.

In just a few short years, he will be the third-best center (and possibly fourth-best if you count O'Reilly) on this team. Even if he were to be signed to the exact same deal he has now it'd technically be an overpayment. I could tolerate that, but a raise? No.

Again, don't blame him one bit. He's worked his tail off, he deserves to benefit just like any other player. But the Avs have some tough decisions to make, and even if his loss results in a disruption in chemistry for this season, the Avs have to look at the bigger picture.