In a redraft - who do you take first? Crosby/Malkin vs McDavid/Draisaitl vs Hedman/Kuch/Vasi vs Mack/Ranta/Makar?

[Sidney the Kidney]

I get that but without fleury in 2017 we may not win the cup. Pitched a shutout in game 7 against Washington. Without the save on Ovechkin there is no guarantee we win. 2/3 cups we really needed him.

But we're looking at the entire picture, not just random segments of time. Otherwise, without Max Talbot the Pens don't win in 2009, without Chris Kunitz the Pens might not even have made the finals in 2017, etc.

Playing a big role in one series or over one stretch of seasons doesn't make a player foundational. Playing a big role during the ENTIRETY of that core's success does. And, IMO, Fleury wasn't "great" enough during that decade+ stretch of Penguins success to be included in that foundational core.

 

[Regal]

I agree here as the original question says this



We know that the Pens duo had the best start out of the gate and have won 3 SC and been a elite 1-2 punch in their long careers.




Except the post you were responding to said that with a slightly different roster and/or luck the Pens could have won 4 SC.

They did in fact win 3, including one were Letang was injured and didn't play and took an excellent Detroit team to 6 games in another SC finals appearance so it's not exactly a stretch to think that they could have 4 SCs right?

Your balance sounds more like "anything could happen"

That’s a fair point. If you’re getting them all at 18, then Malkin and Crosby were already the players we think of by at least Malkin’s second year, which is 3 years removed from the draft. Every other pairing has at least one guy who’s at best 5 years removed from their primes.

 

[CanadienShark]

Lol

Fun talk!

 

[Gurglesons]

One core has 3 cups. I take them.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Fun talk!

Awful take!

 

[CanadienShark]

Awful take!

I'm sorry my opinion hurt you.

 

[daver]

You’re talking about a guy who went to 4 finals appearances also and won a cup in 2009.

MAF was excellent in 2008. If the Pens won the Cup that year, it would have been due to two more games of MAF holding off a superior Wings team and he probably wins the Smythe unless Crosby was even more of a factor in a Game 6 and Game 7.

He was a mediocre Cup winning goalie in 2009. It was the Crosby/Malkin show on a level that is statistically unrivalled in NHL history when looking at how much two players were relied upon offensively for a Cup winner. He was to the Pens as Chris Osgood was to the Wings in 2008.

 

[pi314]

I get that but without fleury in 2017 we may not win the cup. Pitched a shutout in game 7 against Washington. Without the save on Ovechkin there is no guarantee we win. 2/3 cups we really needed him.

This is why points aren’t everything.

Both game 7 goals were Ovechkin coughing it up playing “defense”.

Even if Ovechkin had scored, 2 > 1.

Pens won because playing 200 feet will always beat 50 feet played well.

You can cherry pick your way to stats but not championships.

 

[um]

Bolts trio for me, Avs are very close.

If the Pens had Letang I'd take them.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

You have to go with the top 5 all time center duo in Crosby and Malkin here.

They’ve won everything imaginable, more than once, and won more than the other options. All of that while having a very average supporting cast for most of the years.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Crosby and Malkin pretty easily.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

You have to go with the top 5 all time center duo in Crosby and Malkin here.

They’ve won everything imaginable, more than once, and won more than the other options. All of that while having a very average supporting cast for most of the years.

In 2009 and 2017 Crosby and Malkin arguably had a worse supporting cast than any of these options yet they still won.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Crosby/Malkin

 

[Bouboumaster]

2 - 1 - 3 -4 is the real answer but I'd actually go with 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 because even tho I think that McDavid/Draisatl > Crosby/Malkin, Crosby/Malkin are BY FAR the most proven quantities

 

[Leafs87]

The steps aren’t exactly comparable, but I’d take the Ave’s trio. Franchise center, franchise D man and a star winger.

 

[Miro4Norris]

Crosby/Malkin easily. Crosby would probably not have his concussion history again if he was drafted during this era. Meanwhile, Malkin might be the 3rd best player on this list.

Biggest difference between Edm and Pens duo is, McDrai can't produce when being separated. Sid&Geno put elite numbers their whole career, always on the different lines which creates a double -threat making it nearly impossible to shutdown, while as we saw in the finals, Florida needed only one Barkov-line to shutdown the whole Edmonton when it mattered most. (Yes I know they scored many points in that 8-1 game tho)

Despite all them injuries Pens duo having most Cups says it all and notable is that Pens won 2 of their 3 cups without Letang/Fleury being elite players or even in a lineup so not having them on here is a weak argument.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Options 3 and 4 aren't fair.

Now if you downgraded the 3rd player maybe

 

[JKG33]

For me it comes down to the Pens duo or Avs trio. The guys who won the most, or a slightly worse version of them but with one of the most dangerous D men around.

Not taking the Oil duo because the Pens duo is equal but actually won something. The Bolts trio is nice, but it lacks a center and those 3 also had the best supporting casts of the three teams that won the cup.

 

[DomBarr]

Tampa's trio but its only because they have 3 elite talents that build from the net out so go with one of the best goalies currently in the league, a beast of a #1 D and one of the best offensive forwards.
If either the Penguins or Oilers duos including a 3rd it might change things.

 

[Video Nasty]

If either the Penguins or Oilers duos including a 3rd it might change things.

The premise is, you include the third and beyond, as management.

 

[Faceboner]

Lightning no.1 all situations Norris caliber d, gamechanging lethal dynamic offensive ice tilting Hart caliber top 5 forward and a top 3 game stealing showstopper of a goalie while mack and makar are better than kuch and Hedman not by much but the major difference is vast vs rantanen while rants is a top ten wing vasi is a top 3 goalie and has a vastly superior impact on the game and while kuch isn't a center he is able to drive a line from the wing Tampa has top 5 at every position