Stephen
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Why is Crosby Malkin presented as a duo when the Penguins core of the 2000s and foundation of success included Marc-Andre Fleury and or Kris Letang?
In a redraft - who do you take first? Crosby/Malkin vs McDavid/Draisaitl vs Hedman/Kuch/Vasi vs Mack/Ranta/Makar?
- Thread starter bobholly39
- Start date
Cups are team wins , so discount them, 3 elite players > 2 elite players even if they are the best 2, so 3>2 , Centers > Wingers , unless one option has a weakness it's
4,3,1,2
4,3,1,2
KareemTrustfund
Domiking Simon
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Sidney the Kidney
One last time
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Letang, sure. Not sure why Fleury would be included in that with regards to the Cup wins since he was the starter for only 1 of them.
Video Nasty
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That doesn’t pass the sniff test.
They got 196 goals from players other than Crosby and Malkin in the 2008-2009 regular season (their supporting cast scored 75% of the team’s goals).
Gonchar only played 25 games in the regular season and returned to give them 22 important games in the playoffs. Kunitz was similar, playing just 20 in the regular season and all 24 in the playoffs. You’re confusing players missing games while Malkin and Crosby played full seasons. That’s going to skew those regular season leads. They still got players to fill in and produce.
And boo-hoo by the way; so Crosby and Malkin had to lift the load more this one season instead of all the others where you could count on at least one of them sitting on the bench nursing some malady.
Some of these very same members of the “worst supporting cast” ever did a hell of a lot more against Montreal the next postseason, wondering when their top two players were going to show up in the series.
Can we stop pretending that the Penguins were a horrible team outside of Crosby and Malkin? That supposed worst supporting cast ever saw six players match or exceed the one goal Crosby scored in the Finals.
WalterLundy
Registered User
It doesn’t pass the test because it’s insane and false.
WalterLundy
Registered User
I get that but without fleury in 2017 we may not win the cup. Pitched a shutout in game 7 against Washington. Without the save on Ovechkin there is no guarantee we win. 2/3 cups we really needed him.
Their foundation of success was 2 players. You think the goalie who was responsible for losing multiple series and was benched in the playoffs twice during this span should be included?
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- Jun 22, 2018
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I think McDrai is the only wrong answer here
If not for Fleury the Penguins beat the Caps in 5 or 6 games in 09, but sure thing Mr. Penguins Fan.
Staal was arguably the best 3C in the league, an excellent two-way player. With Cooke and Kennedy really tough to play against.
Stephen
Moderator
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Strange take. Pittsburgh went to the finals and won a cup with Fleury in net for both runs in 2008 and 2009 and then played a part time role in 2 more bonus cups whether you like him or not.
Cursed Lemon
Registered Bruiser
My gut instinct was to say the trio with the outstanding goaltender, but Mac/Ranta/Makar fits the adage of having excellent players shelter a comparatively pedestrian goaltender.
That doesn't mean he was a foundational piece, you usually don't refer to a part time player as such..
Video Nasty
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It’s interesting to see that true story fall by the wayside over the years, in favor of fantasy tales designed to pump Crosby’s tires. If it wasn’t impossible to spin, I feel like even Malkin wouldn’t be safe from spinning the legend into new make-believe territory.
From a three-headed monster destined to rule the land and the “envy of the league” to Crosby and Malkin carrying corpses: BamBamLiarLiarCam
Oh, and for the crowd thinking Crosby was a two-way god for all twenty years of his career, I wonder why this was the case: “Against teams with a tough top defensive pair, he’d slide Staal up next to Malkin and make the opposing coach pick their poison.”
Did he play like "arguably the best 3C in the league" in the 2009 playoffs? What is the benchmark?
He was last on the Pens in plus/minus, had a below average PPG for a 3C among Cup winners before and after the Pens, and his line was a combined minus 8.
According to those stats, Crosby and Malkin had to produce even more.
How was Letang a "foundational" piece in 2009 and 2017?
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1. Crosby and Malkin for the win. They just did everything right when it mattered period. Before the injuries got him Malkin was arguably one of the more unstoppable forces or secondary players on a team since Jagr behind mario
4. Hedman, Vasilevski. Kucherov. PPG player. Near ppg norris calibre 2 way defenceman. Vezina calibre goaltender who was absolutely unbeatable for years when it was time to be clutch
3. Mackinnon, Makar and Raantanen. Makar might end up being one of the best defenseman to ever play the game in the modern era. Mackinnon is JUSt rounding in to his prime and Raantanen is the ultimate complimentary piece to Mackinnon due to their chemistry. Thus far, still young but have not done what Crosby and Malkin did and not quite there with the Tampa trio
2. McDavid Draisatl might be the best single players on this list. But they do not have the line mates to get them over the hump the same way Pitts, Tampa or Colorado do/did. No goalie, no top 4 to speak of. Draisatl might even be in a new uniform after next season. While they might go down as two of the best single players in the modern era they are as of yet nowhere near the same echelons of success as Tampa, Colorado or Pittsburgh's leaders.
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1. Crosby and Malkin for the win. They just did everything right when it mattered period. Before the injuries got him Malkin was arguably one of the more unstoppable forces or secondary players on a team since Jagr behind mario
4. Hedman, Vasilevski. Kucherov. PPG player. Near ppg norris calibre 2 way defenceman. Vezina calibre goaltender who was absolutely unbeatable for years when it was time to be clutch
3. Mackinnon, Makar and Raantanen. Makar might end up being one of the best defenseman to ever play the game in the modern era. Mackinnon is JUSt rounding in to his prime and Raantanen is the ultimate complimentary piece to Mackinnon due to their chemistry. Thus far, still young but have not done what Crosby and Malkin did and not quite there with the Tampa trio
2. McDavid Draisatl might be the best single players on this list. But they do not have the line mates to get them over the hump the same way Pitts, Tampa or Colorado do/did. No goalie, no top 4 to speak of. Draisatl might even be in a new uniform after next season. While they might go down as two of the best single players in the modern era they are as of yet nowhere near the same echelons of success as Tampa, Colorado or Pittsburgh's leaders.
JaegerDice
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Mackinnon, Rantanen, Makar.
You’re getting a top 5 center, a top 5 winger, and a top 5 dman. You’re ELITE at 2 of the 3 most important positions, and a gamebreaker at wing.
That’s pretty much the formula for Chicago’s 3 cups right there.
You’re getting a top 5 center, a top 5 winger, and a top 5 dman. You’re ELITE at 2 of the 3 most important positions, and a gamebreaker at wing.
That’s pretty much the formula for Chicago’s 3 cups right there.
Video Nasty
Registered User
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If you understand this, why wouldn’t you pick them in this hypothetical where you are drafting them and building from scratch around them?
- Feb 10, 2010
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Fleury is a hall of fame goal tender.
I realize trashing players for Crosby is a deep and proud tradition but this is a bridge too far.
I realize trashing players for Crosby is a deep and proud tradition but this is a bridge too far.
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Give me Crosby > McDavid and Malkin > Draisaitl every day of the week.
Stephen
Moderator
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Better question is how does this thread make any sense when we are comparing haphazard groupings of 2’s and 3’s at different positions from teams with multiple championships to zero championships, cores that have been together for 2 decades? It’s comparing apples to oranges to bananas.
Absolutely he did, in the finals the competition was Valtteri Filppula who was nowhere near as good despite career best numbers. Only Boston with Savard, Bergeron, Krejčí was similarly deep but they didn't make it past the second round.
Staal was responsible for shutting down the opposition which created space for Crosby and Malkin offensively. That was a big part of their playoff success.
WalterLundy
Registered User
He played pretty well against Detroit when it mattered and my point about 2017 is obviously true. Lay off with the hostility. You’ve been at me for far too long. Didn’t realize I’ve done this much damage to you psychologically. Seek help.
Unfortunately, McDavid and Draisaitl is the only option that is the wrong answer right now. When every other option made it to the promised land, with the Pens and Bolts with multiple championships, choosing the Oilers duo makes no sense.
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