Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: Dull days of August... Oooo! A trade!

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SEALBound

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Also according to Taylor Haase, none of Sullivan or his assistant coaches have been present, either... but Jeff Carter has been subbing in as a "coach".

I put a pretty good chance at this just being Carter messing with Geno during these unofficial, informal skates.

Training camp doesn't actually start until the 18th. If Malkin is still skating with those two when camp actually starts, fine, let loose. But at this time, the coaches aren't even involved yet.
Those lines look like:

1. What's DOC look like with Sid?
2. What's Beauvillier look like with Malkin?
3. What's Bunting and Rakell look like with Eller?
4. We need a 4th line.

I don't think it has anything to do with any of the centers. This is "what are the wing combo" time.
 

Sidney the Kidney

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People arguing over quality of linemates between Sid and Geno and we're just glossing over the fact that our team has surrounded a 37 and 38 year old, respectively, Sid and Geno with wingers where even the best one would be on the 2nd line on any other good team.

We've got to have one of the weaker top six wingers in the league, at least among teams that are seen as potential playoff teams.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

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People arguing over quality of linemates between Sid and Geno and we're just glossing over the fact that our team has surrounded a 37 and 38 year old, respectively, Sid and Geno with wingers where even the best one would be on the 2nd line on any other good team.

We've got to have one of the weaker top six wingers in the league, at least among teams that are seen as potential playoff teams.

Yeah in the end this is the true shame, here. Setting aside any "woe is Geno" stuff.
 

Gurglesons

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People arguing over quality of linemates between Sid and Geno and we're just glossing over the fact that our team has surrounded a 37 and 38 year old, respectively, Sid and Geno with wingers where even the best one would be on the 2nd line on any other good team.

We've got to have one of the weaker top six wingers in the league, at least among teams that are seen as potential playoff teams.

It would be cool if DOC just hit 30 and we could trade him for a 1st.
 

Sidney the Kidney

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Yeah in the end this is the true shame, here. Setting aside any "woe is Geno" stuff.
It's just crazy to me how it's gotten to this point. Our wing situation might have been okay when Sid and Geno were at their peak, when they could Guerin/Sheary/Talbot/Fedotenko their way to a Cup. But at their age, I just can't understand how this is the top six we're going with and the organization doesn't see an issue.

It would be cool if DOC just hit 30 and we could trade him for a 1st.
It's more likely he ends the season at 30 points than it is he scores 30 goals.
 
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Freeptop

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Jun 17, 2009
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Those lines look like:

1. What's DOC look like with Sid?
2. What's Beauvillier look like with Malkin?
3. What's Bunting and Rakell look like with Eller?
4. We need a 4th line.

I don't think it has anything to do with any of the centers. This is "what are the wing combo" time.
Given that training camp has not started yet, and there are no actual coaches at these informal skates, I don't think those lines have anything to do with anything at all just yet.
Let's see what they look like next week when training camp actually starts.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy

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I just wish this team didn't use its 3rd line like a 4th line, and they had better depth guys to put with McG so he could learn on the job in a less high stakes, high pressure situation than playing with Sid (or Geno, but Bunting seems like a good fit at 2LW).

It's like, throw the kid to the wolves, or play him with a guy some team paid the Pens to take off their hands. :laugh: No in between.

Interested to see how pre-season plays out, though that usually means f*** all. Kapanen looked like MacKinnon out there a couple of pre-seasons ago and that dude sucks absolute shit in real games, so. /shrug
 
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Gurglesons

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Didn't realize he was a UFA coming up this year. That is interesting. I suspect that like @Sidney the Kidney said he'll probably be closer to 30 points than 30 goals though lol.

Seems like a guy they will probably try to keep unless he has a disastrous year.

@Sidney the Kidney is smarter than me. But he also quotes my posts. So who is really smarter?
 

AuroraBorealis

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Oct 16, 2018
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People arguing over quality of linemates between Sid and Geno and we're just glossing over the fact that our team has surrounded a 37 and 38 year old, respectively, Sid and Geno with wingers where even the best one would be on the 2nd line on any other good team.
Rust was definitely 1st line quality at ES last year. He was 4th in 5v5 goals P60 in the league among RW'ers, and 9th in points.
And Bunting, since he entered the league among left wings...
1726197808380.png


With the other 2 wing slots you're absolutely right, but you're underselling these 2.
 
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Sidney the Kidney

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Rust was definitely 1st line quality at ES last year. He was 4th in 5v5 goals P60 in the league among RW'ers, and 9th in points.
And Bunting, since he entered the league among left wings...
View attachment 906717

With the other 2 wing slots you're absolutely right, but you're underselling these 2.
Rust's numbers are misleading in that he's benefiting from the whole "someone has to get the cushy ice time and put up points on a shitty team" syndrome. He gets the points *here* because he's stapled to Crosby's wing and generally plays on the top PP unit. Those numbers are misleading because any other team (or any other contender) and he's not getting those cushy minutes.

That's why I said he's a 2nd liner on any other good team's roster. Because that's where he'd play. He'd be like the 3rd or 4th best winger on most contenders, but on the Pens he's the top winger because the rest of our wingers kind of suck (relative to the other playoff teams).

As for Bunting, he's fine as he is. But he's also just your typical 50-ish point winger. Nothing horrible about that, but also not exactly overly great considering he's more a complimentary type on a team that needs more play drivers/top end skill.
 
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AuroraBorealis

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Rust's numbers are misleading in that he's benefiting from the whole "someone has to get the cushy ice time and put up points on a shitty team" syndrome. He gets the points *here* because he's stapled to Crosby's wing and generally plays on the top PP unit. Those numbers are misleading because any other team (or any other contender) and he's not getting those cushy minutes.

That's why I said he's a 2nd liner on any other good team's roster. Because that's where he'd play. He'd be like the 3rd or 4th best winger on most contenders, but on the Pens he's the top winger because the rest of our wingers kind of suck (relative to the other playoff teams).

As for Bunting, he's fine as he is. But he's also just your typical 50-ish point winger. Nothing horrible about that, but also not exactly overly great considering he's more a complimentary type on a team that needs more play drivers/top end skill.
Your comment was about even-strength play, so that's what I was answering with. Power-play output, usage, and how that affects season-end point totals is a different topic, but I guess I can touch on that too.

That perception of how many quality wings are dispersed throughout the league is flawed. The league's talent is watered down with 32 teams, and the salary cap exists.
Plus it's disingenuous to say Rust just got carried last year, like Sid and Jake didn't profit from him a great deal too. He was one of the best Penguins. He was on pace for north of 70 points if he played all 82, and he had half of Crosby's PP minutes. A massive chunk of those came on PP2 as well..
What he did is not common or expected, and he doesn't deserve to be dismissed like that.

The PPP's only account for 19% of his career production. He's not using it to boost his numbers like other top line wings do. Plus he didn't get legit PP time until his 6th season.
In the 5 years since getting that promotion, he's averaged 62 games played per season. That's a result of Covid shortened years and injuries.
That's what's really hurting his point totals and reputation. And yeah, granted he's not very good on the PP.

Bunting has everything he needs to be a 60 or even 70 point player. Just give him a functioning PP1 with him as a regular. His production in other situations will take care of the rest.
Plus there'll be a notable chunk of goals he gets no points on, but were created with his screens.
I suppose it's fair to call his skillset complimentary, but he's also a hell of a complimentary player. 2.32 5v5 P/P60 since entering the league? That ranks 31st in the NHL since 2018-19.
That means on average he'd be the 2nd best 5v5 producing player on a team.
Calling him "typical" is a huge undersell. "Excellent" is a more appropriate word.
 

Buddy Bizarre

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Also according to Taylor Haase, none of Sullivan or his assistant coaches have been present, either... but Jeff Carter has been subbing in as a "coach".

I put a pretty good chance at this just being Carter messing with Geno during these unofficial, informal skates.

Training camp doesn't actually start until the 18th. If Malkin is still skating with those two when camp actually starts, fine, let loose. But at this time, the coaches aren't even involved yet.

I hope Geno beats JC's ass just like he did to Adams
 

chethejet

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there are a number of keys here. Ivany being the physical RD that plays as well as he did last year if not improved. The new trade LW who lends the forward group a level of grit and bang. Graves playing better and Jarry as well. But Dubas has at least added more balance and younger legs to help carry the play.
 

eXile3

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Dec 12, 2020
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I wonder how accurate edge is? If it is, we’re going to slow as hell but that seems to check out.
 

CheckingLineCenter

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Rust both benefitted from Sid AND was good last year offensively. He’s not a star so he will be a function of his linemates to a certain degree.

Just want him to do it for a full season, not a pace. Would like him to mix in some old Rust and be more of a dawg with motor and energy but that’s asking too much.
 

eXile3

Registered User
Dec 12, 2020
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It’s official NHL data. Not sure how it could get much more accurate.

I work in data for the mortgage industry. Even in a highly regulated industry you would be surprised. That said you’re probably right as I assume this data set is far less complicated.
 

CheckingLineCenter

Registered User
Aug 10, 2018
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I work in data for the mortgage industry. Even in a highly regulated industry you would be surprised. That said you’re probably right as I assume this data set is far less complicated.
It’s much more straightforward. only thing to really question is the accuracy of the tracking tech itself.

Regardless, even if say MPH is 1.5 mph slower than it should be across the board, the players would still be ranked in the same order and the same guys would be the fastest, and others slowest.

Where it gets interesting is if there is variance between chips, but I’d imagine that is tested, and because they’re always tracking the sample size is so large that it should kinda absorb the outlier issues.

So I’d take it at face value IMO.

So where do you see the mortgage rates in 3 months? :laugh:
Fed is cutting next week. 6%
 

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