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Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: Dull days of August... Oooo! A trade!

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Darren McCord said:
I don't get this. I want crosby in the playoffs and moving up in the all time point list.

People who want to see this team fail blow my mind.
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Yeah I don't get why people want this team to be bad. They'll be plenty bad after Crosby and Malkin retire.

I want them to be good while continuing to add assets for the future. That's the dream scenario, they're a legitimate playoff team while continuing to accrue assets.

Andy99 said:
www.sportsnet.ca

NHL Power Rankings: Fallout from off-season moves

What do all the off-season moves mean as we close in on the 2024-25 NHL season? Ryan Dixon fires up the power rankings to see how everything comes together.
www.sportsnet.ca www.sportsnet.ca

30. Pittsburgh Penguins: Snagging Rutger McGroarty from Winnipeg was a nice move this summer, but this team is just at the outset of a long decline. Given the age and injury history of some key players, it feels like there’s real crumble potential here — which may be best-case scenario for Pens fans.

Man, how the mighty have fallen lol…
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Having the Blue Jackets above the Penguins after Gaudreau died is pure idiocy from Sportsnet.
 
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AuroraBorealis said:
Your comment was about even-strength play, so that's what I was answering with. Power-play output, usage, and how that affects season-end point totals is a different topic, but I guess I can touch on that too.

That perception of how many quality wings are dispersed throughout the league is flawed. The league's talent is watered down with 32 teams, and the salary cap exists.
Plus it's disingenuous to say Rust just got carried last year, like Sid and Jake didn't profit from him a great deal too. He was one of the best Penguins. He was on pace for north of 70 points if he played all 82, and he had half of Crosby's PP minutes. A massive chunk of those came on PP2 as well..
What he did is not common or expected, and he doesn't deserve to be dismissed like that.

The PPP's only account for 19% of his career production. He's not using it to boost his numbers like other top line wings do. Plus he didn't get legit PP time until his 6th season.
In the 5 years since getting that promotion, he's averaged 62 games played per season. That's a result of Covid shortened years and injuries.
That's what's really hurting his point totals and reputation. And yeah, granted he's not very good on the PP.

Bunting has everything he needs to be a 60 or even 70 point player. Just give him a functioning PP1 with him as a regular. His production in other situations will take care of the rest.
Plus there'll be a notable chunk of goals he gets no points on, but were created with his screens.
I suppose it's fair to call his skillset complimentary, but he's also a hell of a complimentary player. 2.32 5v5 P/P60 since entering the league? That ranks 31st in the NHL since 2018-19.
That means on average he'd be the 2nd best 5v5 producing player on a team.
Calling him "typical" is a huge undersell. "Excellent" is a more appropriate word.
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Again, you're focusing on his points on the Pens last year and not taking into account the "someone has to play those minutes and rack up points" thing that happens. Instead, do this. Look around the league at the teams who are considered locks to make the playoffs. Now, which of those teams would Rust be the top winger on? Which of those teams would he even be the second best winger on?

That's what I'm getting at. On a contender, Rust isn't good enough to be getting these 20 minute per night with the top center minutes. On probably 99% of playoff teams, he's at best the second best winger, and on the truly top teams, he's more like the third or fourth best.

But again, if you don't believe me. Just go ahead and list the contending/playoff teams that Rust would be the #1 winger on. Then filter it down even farther to the teams he'd even be the #2 winger on. I'll bet you a lot you'll struggle to find more than 1 or 2 teams where that's where he'd slot.

As for Bunting, I think you're overrating his upside. I've seen him in junior, I've seen 90% of his games when he played for the Leafs. He's a limited player offensively. He does some stuff well (ie. isn't afraid to go to the net), but he simply doesn't have the high end skill to be consistently more than the 50-60 point range. Which, in and of itself isn't exactly bad. But again, this team needs more ELITE offensive wingers, not a bunch of good complimentary 3rd wheel types. Bunting's more of the latter than the former, which again, was my point about him.
 
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People want this team to accept being bad. They're already bad, they just refuse to accept it, lean into it, and start benefiting from being bad. Instead they've settled on burying their heads in the sand and seemingly prefer this 15th overall, barely hanging on to be in the WC running bullshit.
 
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Michael Farkas said:
Sure. But that's the exception of having a bad roster and bad pipeline. Guentzel is, in part, a Crosby creation. To the victor go the spoils, so to speak. Rust, to a degree too, who is more of a second line talent anyhow. But yeah, to concede, if we only have three wingers on the team worth a damn...and Crosby established himself with the best one quite clearly. Yeah, Malkin gets Kasperi Kapanen and Danton Heinen. Fair enough.

But I mean, even look at this discussion...it's all "McGroarty with Crosby" - the guy who has zero pro games goes right to Crosby. That's not a positive. That's a challenge that Malkin generally isn't equipped to handle.
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I don't agree with that, at all. Guentzel showed consistently high levels of play and goal scoring during college, the AHL, and early in the NHL and throughout his career with multiple teammates. The fact that he got to play with Crosby because of the happenstance of who drafted him is not a knock on his ability. It's not his fault that the team that he was drafted by had two generational centers. Sure, it helps to have a playmaking talent like Sid by your side, but Guentzel also showed a high level of play with Aho and Carolina. Playing with elite talents is not a skill that all players have. Several guys get put on Sid's wing that have failed over the years. As good as Sid's is, I wouldn't call him a miracle-maker. The successful players MUST have the talent and, more importantly, the IQ to be successful with Sid. To have Guentzel's success is a testament to his skill AND hockey IQ and it's extremely short-sided to suggest he's merely a "creation of Crosby". That's so incredibly unfair to Guentzel as a player and person that I'm shocked anyone had the sack to suggest it.

If Sid could turn anyone into a 40g scorer, we would have A LOT of 40g scorers over the last 19 years but we don't.

Rust made his name in the bottom 6 and with Malkin and Kunitz in 2016. By the time he was getting regular time with Sid, he was already an established top 6 capable wing. Calling him 2nd line wing is probably fair but again, he often displays the speed and IQ that tend to work well with Sid, just like we say with Dupuis. He's benefited from being able to play with Malkin and Sid but again, that's not a knock on him as player. He still has to score the goals, he still has to make the play to get the assist, he still has to forecheck and backcheck, etc. This isn't Mario with Brown and Errey, per say. Brown potted 115pts with Mario and is regularly PPG with the Penguins, gets traded and he goes to .75 then to roughly .5. Rust has been largely consisted with his production which got a bump once he saw regular top 6 and PP time.

Looking forward, we are running short on the guys that can work well with Sid. All potential candidates should get the chance. If they are successful though, it will be because they showed the skill and chemistry with Sid and NOT because Sid just carried them as you suggested with Guentzel.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy said:
People want this team to accept being bad. They're already bad, they just refuse to accept it, lean into it, and start benefiting from being bad. Instead they've settled on burying their heads in the sand and seemingly prefer this 15th overall, barely hanging on to be in the WC running bullshit.
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They were damn close the last two years on making the playoffs. Last year with average goaltending and an average PP, they get in. They are CLEARLY on the downswing but I don't think they are as bad as we all thing and say they are. The players they brought in could easily change things a bit.
 
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SEALBound said:
They were damn close the last two years on making the playoffs. Last year with average goaltending and an average PP, they get in. They are CLEARLY on the downswing but I don't think they are as bad as we all thing and say they are. The players they brought in could easily change things a bit.
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I know this can only come off as shitty and I really don't mean it that way but I mean... lol... who? Hayes? The husks of Glass and Beau? They added guys this year to fill out the roster and gain (questionable) futures. Not help the team.
 
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Assuming the departure of Jake isn't catastrophic to the top-6 production. And assuming DOC sorta keeps up his "serviceable, I guess" third wheel act. And assuming Sid doesn't take a step back due to age or get injured. I guess this team could realistically end up similarly to last season; barely hanging on to the WC discussion. :laugh: Then again, they've still got Sully behind the bench, they still have Jarry who is gonna be a shitshow from like January onward, they dunno which Ned they'll be getting.

I dunno, man. If we're trying to remain realistic here, they're probably more or less the same dogshit team they've been the past two years, assuming Sid still plays lights out and the absence of Jake across an entire season doesn't hurt their production too bad. But there's a very real chance this team takes a tumble--not to the degree of that Sportsnet article, I don't think, but a tumble nonetheless.
 
BlindWillyMcHurt said:
I know this can only come off as shitty and I really don't mean it that way but I mean... lol... who? Hayes? The husks of Glass and Beau? They added guys this year to fill out the roster and gain (questionable) futures. Not help the team.
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Fair, I think the top 6 will remain the same but I think the additions of Beauvillier, Lizotte, Glass, and hopefully McGroarty will help. Certainly this year, a better bottom 6 can be constructed vs last year.
 
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HandshakeLine said:
PoHo Kyle Calcuations is on the case!

Just gotta make sure we re-sign a few non-essential players to horrible deals first!
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Thankfully the team seems to have stopped doing that last part. Minimal term and AAV for the schlubs they brought in. Baby steps and all that. By year 7 of Dubas' contract, he might just figure this thing out.
 
Big Friggin Dummy said:
Man I'll be so annoyed. :laugh: And we'll hear a buncha shit about how it was the best move they could've made and all that--just like when they re-signed Tristan "Best option available, couldn't be helped" Jarry.
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Ya'll need to learn that this team isn't actually rebuilding... it's just addicted to mediocre players.

They probably think Hayes is a feature... not a bug.

Shit management and shit coaching. It's not a complex issue, here.
 
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