Speculation: If the Subban trade from Montreal to Edmonton occurred.

[glenbuis]

Edmonton should have made the deal at any cost. Subban is not replaceable. Habs were fools.

are you at all aware of the baggage that subban comes with or do we just ignore all that ?

 

[Draiskull]

and how do the Oilers absorb 9M$ for the next 6 years by trading Drai as the main piece. Makes no sense.

by not signing Lucic.

 

[McTrashBoat]

by not signing Lucic.

We'd still need another LW and/or C (assuming Hall and/or Drai)

 

[Draiskull]

We'd still need another LW and/or C (assuming Hall and/or Drai)

We would have needed a #3C assuming McD and RNH as 1 + 2.
Not that hard to find those... Richards? Stoll? Legwand?

If it was Drai+4th+Nurse+Yak for Subban and Larsson for Hall was on the cards would Chia have done it?

If Lucic was a lock I would have done it.

Hall-McDavid-Eberle
Pouliot-RNH-Versteeg

Klefbom-Subban
Sekera-Fayne

vs

Lucic-McD-Ebs as top line with

Klefbom-Larsson , Sekera-Subban as top 4.

 

[McFlyingV]

We would have needed a #3C assuming McD and RNH as 1 + 2.
Not that hard to find those... Richards? Stoll? Legwand?

If it was Drai+4th+Nurse+Yak for Subban and Larsson for Hall was on the cards would Chia have done it?

If Lucic was a lock I would have done it.

Hall-McDavid-Eberle
Pouliot-RNH-Versteeg

Klefbom-Subban
Sekera-Fayne

vs

Lucic-McD-Ebs as top line with

Klefbom-Larsson , Sekera-Subban as top 4.

You really believe any of those players are 3rd line centres at this point in their career? You'd be better off playing ****ing Mark Letestu at 3C than those guys. 3C's are not that easy to find unless you want an overpaid one like Eller or Shaw and at that point you're not running 3 scoring lines anymore, you're running 2 checking lines that aren't going to get you much offence.

 

[Draiskull]

You really believe any of those players are 3rd line centres at this point in their career? You'd be better off playing ****ing Mark Letestu at 3C than those guys. 3C's are not that easy to find unless you want an overpaid one like Eller or Shaw and at that point you're not running 3 scoring lines anymore, you're running 2 checking lines that aren't going to get you much offence.

point remains the same.. It is a lot easier to fill a hole at #3C than one at #1D.

as for 2 checking lines and not getting much offense, Subban had 24 powerplay points last year. I am sure they Oilers would have had atleast 10 more wins if they had their PP going last year. Offense from back end is as important as offense from your 3rd line. Larsson is supposedly an offensive black hole but his 18pts last season would place him comfortably ahead of any other Oilers Dman not named Sekera in points. (12 points were 2nd highest by an Oiler)

At the deadline trading Drai+++ for Subban would have been a win.. IMO Klefbom was the dealbreaker and not Draisaitl. In the hindsight I am more than happy with keeping Drai + Puljujarvi + Lucic + Nurse and doing just Hall for Larsson.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

Draisaitl has looked spectacular for Europe. In my mind Edmonton is better off and Montreal is better off.

Montreal is looking to contend now, trading for Draisaitl and Klefbom + would somewhat set the organisation a couple years back. They are looking to capitalise on the Carey Price window.

Edmonton is a great young up and coming team that has the time to properly develop Draisaitl. Not to mention due to their inexperience and fragility i feel that adding a personality like Subban could be toxic for their dressing room.

 

[rockinghockey]

Chia stated on EDM local radio that with McD's contract coming up that PK's contract would be too much to add into the team because of cap hit.

 

[RC51]

so what if the habs traded Subban to the oil for dirt cheap? WOW some question... what if the oil offered 10 top players with 100% cap space withheld, now lets have a great thread. what a waist of time this is.
Pick a player you want the ask what if I massively undervalue him and get him for DIRT.

 

[Homesick]

Draisaitl has looked spectacular for Europe. In my mind Edmonton is better off and Nashville is better off.

Montreal is looking to contend now, trading for Draisaitl and Klefbom + would somewhat set the organisation a couple years back. They are looking to capitalise on the Carey Price window.

Edmonton is a great young up and coming team that has the time to properly develop Draisaitl. Not to mention due to their inexperience and fragility i feel that adding a personality like Subban could be toxic for their dressing room.

Fixed it for you. That team is way too dependent on Price to be a contender

 

[yababy]

Maybe Edmonton would be a little more willing to trade Draisaitl in a package for Subban if Dubios is available to fill in the hole left from Draisaitl (read: young C prospect with big potential).

Drai could never be part of the pkg because his salary doesnt cover any of Subbans coming back. It would have to be Eberle Hall or RNH going to Mtl with smaller pieces. Perhaps thats why talks never got serious

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

I would have hated to see Subban in an oilers jersey

 

[yababy]

As a Habs fan,

I would have taken Draisaitl + 4th (Dubois or Pulju, didn't care about the French factor, being French myself) + Nurse/Klefbom (probably Nurse being offered, since he has less value).

Then, I'd threw 7x7 (even 7.5) to Yandle or 5.5m to Demers.

Would never work.
3 players from Edmonton at 6 m total for one player at 9million is a recipe for cap hell

 

[Draiskull]

Drai could never be part of the pkg because his salary doesnt cover any of Subbans coming back. It would have to be Eberle Hall or RNH going to Mtl with smaller pieces. Perhaps thats why talks never got serious

not sure about this logic..

Drai + Klefbom would alone be close to 7M factoring in bonuses.

There is a reason why its called a package... you add smaller salaries.

Add Yakupov and this package is more than Subban's 9mil.

@RC51 not sure what you are trying to get at ... Are you calling the Drai+++ package worthless for Subban?

 

[Draiskull]

Would never work.
3 players from Edmonton at 6 m total for one player at 9million is a recipe for cap hell

you are ignoring bonuses which all of Drai, Pulj and Nurse qualify for.

At worst Edmonton pass up on Lucic and go with Pouliot, Maroon, Versteeg, Hendricks down the left side.

 

[stuffradio]

Vancouver had a higher chance at Subban if we got PLD than the Oilers did trading for Subban.

 

[BLNY]

It wasn't Draisaitl + 4.

It was Draisaitl + 4 + Klefbom + at least one more significant piece.

Even that may have been off the table the moment CBJ selected PLD at 3.

It's enterly possible that Berg had an offer similar to that on the table. He claims to have known that CBJ was going to pick Dubois, which was the player Marc really coveted. As soon as he knew that it's likely the Edmonton deal fell through.

IMO, I'd rather have Draisaitl, the pick and Klefbom. Even if Dubois wasn't going to be there, they could have easily gotten a blue chipper to go with Sergachev.

Berg is in 'win now' mode and he thinks Weber is the piece to do that.

 

[BLNY]

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/h...that-the-edmonton-oilers-passed-on-p-k-subban

Edit: Whether it makes sense to you or not, it's probably what happened.

Staples really should have done his research before writing that piece. Beyond the editorial snipe at Subban's value, it was as clear on June 30 as it is today that Nashville retains all the penalties with Weber's deal.

 

[OttawaSenators11]

Given the market for high end defensemen, I really don't think Draisaitl + 4th is as outlandish as some are making it out to be. Perhaps a slight add from Montreal, but really not much more.

But as a hockey fan I could care less about who the Oilers did or did not trade for. Just focused on my own team.

Draisaitl + 4th is fair for Subban.

This board always over values young players.

 

[molsonmuscle360]

not sure about this logic..

Drai + Klefbom would alone be close to 7M factoring in bonuses.

There is a reason why its called a package... you add smaller salaries.

Add Yakupov and this package is more than Subban's 9mil.

@RC51 not sure what you are trying to get at ... Are you calling the Drai+++ package worthless for Subban?

Yeah, but then you have to sign players to fill those holes that those guys leave behind. That is where the cap hell comes in. You pay Subban 9, McDavid 10+ and RNH and Eberles 6/year thats 31 million for 4 players. You think you can add a good supporting cast of 16 more players without going over the cap? Very unlikely.

 

[Zorro]

Yeah, but then you have to sign players to fill those holes that those guys leave behind. That is where the cap hell comes in. You pay Subban 9, McDavid 10+ and RNH and Eberles 6/year thats 31 million for 4 players. You think you can add a good supporting cast of 16 more players without going over the cap? Very unlikely.

Seems like CHI is able to do it:

Kane - 10.5
Toews - 10.5
Seabrook - 6.8
Hossa - 5.27

Total: $33.07M

 

[tempest2i]

Seems like CHI is able to do it:

Kane - 10.5
Toews - 10.5
Seabrook - 6.8
Hossa - 5.27

Total: $33.07M

Chicago also sends away contributing young players because they can't afford to keep them due to those two massive cap hits at the top of the heap.

They can afford to do that because they keep winning Cups, which is the major difference between the Chicago model and basically every other team in the NHL.

 

[ThirdManIn]

are you at all aware of the baggage that subban comes with or do we just ignore all that ?

We're not talking about Evander Kane or, worse yet, Slava Voynov here. Subban's "baggage" is presumed to exist, and it is limited to "he is a showboat and maybe rubs his teammates the wrong way." This is a position that has time and again been denied by teammates. The closest anyone got to really badmouthing the guy was when Price said Subban is the kind of player who is going to play his own game, which I can see having definitely rubbed the coaching staff the wrong way.

Oh the horror

That said, the trade with Edmonton wasn't going to happen regardless of pieces, within reason of course (yes, had Montreal been OK with nothing but low-quality pieces for cap/contract dumps Edmonton would have likely found a way). As Friendman said in his piece The 23 Minutes that Shook the Hockey World, Chia's biggest concerned seemed to be centered around Subban's contract, considering McDavid is in a position to possibly become the highest paid player in the league within a few years (or at least up there). "An Edmonton-Montreal deal was never close."

The argument that Edmonton didn't want to put itself in a position to end up in a terrible salary cap situation, forcing their hand to trade away players before they even get to launch their team off the ground, is a strong argument. The argument that Subban has baggage is just a bunch of ******** born from sensationalist media in Montreal. It is not a strong argument in the least.

 

[Zorro]

Chicago also sends away contributing young players because they can't afford to keep them due to those two massive cap hits at the top of the heap.

They can afford to do that because they keep winning Cups, which is the major difference between the Chicago model and basically every other team in the NHL.

That's the point, CHI isn't afraid to pay their big guns top $ because they know that's who will be with them long term. Who cares if they rotating supporting cast every couple years are so.

 

[ThirdManIn]

That's the point, CHI isn't afraid to pay their big guns top $ because they know that's who will be with them long term. Who cares if they rotating supporting cast every couple years are so.

Except Edmonton isn't even close to being in that position. Chicago can afford it in a financial sense, and I'm sure Edmonton could, too, but that isn't the only way Chicago can afford to do it. They can afford to do it in a competitive sense, as well, because they not only have a core that has proven it can win but they have those wins which have given them a lot of capital with the fans.

Edmonton has to build the core and at least show that it is the core of a perennial contending team before it can even think about doing anything similar to Chicago. Chicago also has the ability to fill their ever-opening holes with players from within. Very few teams would be capable of doing that.

Chicago's asset management over the past five years is a terrible example for Edmonton to follow because they are in opposite positions.