Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[Dekes For Days]

Ok Knies at 8m for 5yrs...

That's still not market value.

 

[arso40]

Unfortunately, you jumped on the bandwagon of someone else who misread or misunderstood a post or a number of posts.

No one ever said a demotion was a good thing. We were pointing out to Antro that he thought a demotion made one certain player look bad, which is fine, but then, couldn't comprehend that same player later on being promoted back to where he initially was as a positive good thing. All in all it was a net zero, but one specific poster here somehow only saw the whole situation as a negative.

I never said that you said it was so what are you responding once again I called one person by name I’m not scared to be direct I didn’t accuse you of nothing this band wagon you speak of is stupid if I’m being honest on more than one occasion I’ve explained myself antro my guy but what he says is what he says as I’ve told my friend Francis I don’t get paid no matter what happens with our players but I’m gonna call a spade a spade every time

 

[Sypher04]

No doubting one thing: Mitch was the best Leaf in this tournament.

Marner was good, no shade, but this statement is highly debatable.

 

[Smif]

Marner was good, no shade, but this statement is highly debatable.

Make your claim then.

 

[Sypher04]

Make your claim then.

Marner had 1 goal, 2 assists in 4 games
Matthews had 0 goals, 3 assists in 3 games.

Marner, outside of the final game was largely not very effective. This could be also said about Matthews. Marner got the OT rush winner vs Sweden, Matthews overall game vs Finland was I thought better.

Both had 2 assists in the gold game.
Both played well defensively the whole tournament.

I don’t see any strong argument to say Marner played better than Matthews did, or vice versa.

Both players were good overall. Especially in the final game. Matthews was rather easily the best US forward on Thursday.

 

[ITM]

Marner had 1 goal, 2 assists in 4 games
Matthews had 0 goals, 3 assists in 3 games.

Marner, outside of the final game was largely not very effective. This could be also said about Matthews. Marner got the OT rush winner vs Sweden, Matthews overall game vs Finland was I thought better.

Both had 2 assists in the gold game.
Both played well defensively the whole tournament.

I don’t see any strong argument to say Marner played better than Matthews did, or vice versa.

Both players were good overall. Especially in the final game. Matthews was rather easily the best US forward on Thursday.

True. And I think this probably makes the case that Matthews had the better overall performance. But it's a good problem to have, mindful of how instrumental Marner was. It feels like 1A/1B comparison to me.

Crosby, Mackinnon, McDavid...Binnington...our Leafs are not. BUT: (And I think this is your finer point?) How about this as a comparison: What NHL team had the two best players in the Final?

Yes it's an obvious half glass full exercise, but isn't great that that's our actual dilemma when considering the merit of each player for our primary purposes as Leafs fans?

 

[Leaf Fans]

Marner had 1 goal, 2 assists in 4 games
Matthews had 0 goals, 3 assists in 3 games.

Marner, outside of the final game was largely not very effective. This could be also said about Matthews. Marner got the OT rush winner vs Sweden, Matthews overall game vs Finland was I thought better.

Both had 2 assists in the gold game.
Both played well defensively the whole tournament.

I don’t see any strong argument to say Marner played better than Matthews did, or vice versa.

Both players were good overall. Especially in the final game. Matthews was rather easily the best US forward on Thursday.

Is rush taking the drop pass from Crosby just past the center ice line beating Karlsson and scoring?

 

[leafs in five]

He created? He did make the pass...biggest contributor to the goal though?

Mcdavid won the faceoff, took the initial shot, then found the open space in the slot, and sniped the puck top corner. The entire broadcast team kept talking about how that was Mcdavids goal and how it was a perfect shot.

Makar made the good play...Marner made a good play, Mcdavid made a series of great plays.

Team Canada needs to send Fox a Starbucks gift card for thr play, he royally messed up. He took the wrong route (behind the net) on the Makar board play to Marner and was still behind the net when Marner picked up thr Makar pass...leaving Matthews to basically cover Marner and Mcdavid. Matthews should've probably just stayed covering the slot but he did a kind of in-between and Mcdavid was open.

Good pass by Marner, he wont miss that pass if given space. I've said this often about Marner, he doesn't miss if he has space.

Red arrow on photos below..what was Fox thinking?

View attachment 980470

View attachment 980471

I really thought you'd at least take a break from the screencap level-of-contribution-to-goal analysis after that game

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Marner had 1 goal, 2 assists in 4 games
Matthews had 0 goals, 3 assists in 3 games.

Marner, outside of the final game was largely not very effective. This could be also said about Matthews. Marner got the OT rush winner vs Sweden, Matthews overall game vs Finland was I thought better.

Both had 2 assists in the gold game.
Both played well defensively the whole tournament.

I don’t see any strong argument to say Marner played better than Matthews did, or vice versa.

Both players were good overall. Especially in the final game. Matthews was rather easily the best US forward on Thursday.

Marner came through in the clutch, that's all that matters. A game winner in Game 1 and he set up 2 out of 3 goals in the final. Sorry, Matthews did not match that.

 

[leafs in five]

I support all hockey players with good price to performance ratios.

 

[Hellcat]

You do realize these guys have been playing hockey as a career their entire lives? No that is not a difficult pass for an NHL player. 3.5 million Domi makes that pass with his eyes closed.

You're saying that it's easy to slip pass by Matthews? An elite center who is known for his defensive play and take away prowess?

 

[thusk]

Marner came through in the clutch, that's all that matters. A game winner in Game 1 and he set up 2 out of 3 goals in the final. Sorry, Matthews did not match that.

I'm not agree

-Matthews got a golden gold scoring chance in the slot
- Created the Tkachuk acoring chanxe on miraculous Binnington save
- Took a shoot as good than mcdavid shoot but got robed by Binnington

and he set up both 2 usa goal. The difference was Binnington made miraculous saves and Hellebuyk didn't in OT

Matthews alone probably created as much scoring chance than the rest of USA team together. He's probably the last player to blame for the lost

 

[JL17]

Good on Mitch for having the game he had. Good things happen when you get in a corner instead of hanging out at the blueline. Nice feed to Bennett also.

Hopefully for the Leafs he watched 29 and 87 and took something from it how to compete every shift and how to battle every shift.

 

[notdoneyet]

I support all hockey players with good price to performance ratios. That is mostly weighted to the playoffs. If Mitch is getting shit on its because one of the most reasonable people on HFBoards (Me) is pointing out the legitimate concern. He can take less money or do us a solid in say giving us term with no NMC in the final years, but he won't because he is selfish and wants it all.

These are cart before the horse, cake and eat it too, spoiled stars in Toronto and Nylander is not an exception.

Matthews is on the fairest contract. He is injured though, so it looks bad sometimes.

You are one of the most reasonable posters on this board is a joke
You made a bet on this board that if you lost the bet you wouldn’t post anymore. You lost the bet but here you are. I think the other name you posted under for the time you were away has you confused.

You love matthews I get it. But I wonder what you would say if matthews had scored the goal and marner missed his assignment. Mcdavid was matthews man and he rushed into the corner trying to get marner. Matthews cost his team the game

 

[Smif]

You are one of the most reasonable posters on this board is a joke
You made a bet on this board that if you lost the bet you wouldn’t post anymore. You lost the bet but here you are. I think the other name you posted under for the time you were away has you confused.

You love matthews I get it. But I wonder what you would say if matthews had scored the goal and marner missed his assignment. Mcdavid was matthews man and he rushed into the corner trying to get marner. Matthews cost his team the game

Oh man, imagine how this place would be right now if Marner blew his coverage on that last goal like Matthews did AND didn't score one goal the whole tourney? He'd be crucified in here. The bias in here is insane and one of the main culprits think's he's the reasonable one...lol, tells me a lot about who we're dealing with.

 

[thusk]

You are one of the most reasonable posters on this board is a joke
You made a bet on this board that if you lost the bet you wouldn’t post anymore. You lost the bet but here you are. I think the other name you posted under for the time you were away has you confused.

You love matthews I get it. But I wonder what you would say if matthews had scored the goal and marner missed his assignment. Mcdavid was matthews man and he rushed into the corner trying to get marner. Matthews cost his team the game

No at all... Canada used a set play to create confusion and using usa defensive structure against them

It what Matthews anticipating

It what happening

They no system in the world working when you've got someone covering absolutly nothing and out of play like fox was. Its not a coverage issue by Matthews and he didn't missed his assignment ( if they someone who missed it, it's fox) but a miscommunication created by the set play who caught fox out of position

 

[Sypher04]

Marner came through in the clutch, that's all that matters. A game winner in Game 1 and he set up 2 out of 3 goals in the final. Sorry, Matthews did not match that.

A 3 on 3 goal, and 2/3 goals in the final is not more impressive than what Matthews did, who also was involved in 2 goals in the finals.

It’s not less impressive either. They were both very good.

Sorry, but you claiming Matthews didn’t match what Marner did in the tournament is just wrong when looking at the total body of work for each player.

Matthews is among the only reasons the US even made it to OT, where he had more scoring chances than anyone. Whatever is hindering his goalscoring injury wise is just a continuation of what we’ve seen with the Leafs all year.

 

[crump]

Literally could switch narratives if Matthews wasn’t stoned by Binnington. (Especially on the pass Marner couldn’t block on the blocker save by Binnington on Matthews )Both had great games. Fox and Hannifin to me were more of the culprits on both the tying goal and OT winner. Fox bit hard on Marners fake cut inside leaving Bennett a free path to the net. And someone left Marner alone in the corner off that faceoff and it wasn't Matthews. (Hint: it was either Fox or Hannifin) sure you know Matthews should have kept closer to McDavid, but it was a perfect pass., Probably credit of bad coaching for playing that zone defence, nobody had Marner. Smart play by him and the pass was perfect on the ice and not bobbling through inches of space outside of Matthews stick.

 

[francis246]

I support all hockey players with good price to performance ratios. That is mostly weighted to the playoffs. If Mitch is getting shit on its because one of the most reasonable people on HFBoards (Me) is pointing out the legitimate concern. He can take less money or do us a solid in say giving us term with no NMC in the final years, but he won't because he is selfish and wants it all.

These are cart before the horse, cake and eat it too, spoiled stars in Toronto and Nylander is not an exception.

Matthews is on the fairest contract. He is injured though, so it looks bad sometimes.

Holy lol

 

[Niagara Bill]

That's still not market value.

Yeah, the more I read these posts the more I think maybe you are Mitchys dad...not his bro in law.
Everybody, fans, sports guys, gms , pundits, loves Mitchy, just not at 14 or 15.
Point us just like everyone loves Knies, but not above his reasonable market value.
Just deliver 1 (one) Lord Stanley and then demand whenever you want. But Mitchy at 15m hurts our chances..not helps. Mitchy at 12 helps us.
You love Mitchy, many if us love the Leafs more.

 

[francis246]

Yeah, the more I read these posts the more I think maybe you are Mitchys dad...not his bro in law.
Everybody, fans, sports guys, gms , pundits, loves Mitchy, just not at 14 or 15.
Point us just like everyone loves Knies, but not above his reasonable market value.
Just deliver 1 (one) Lord Stanley and then demand whenever you want. But Mitchy at 15m hurts our chances..not helps. Mitchy at 12 helps us.
You love Mitchy, many if us love the Leafs more.

There’s no world where Knies is worth 8-10 million right now and anyone who believes that is delusional. Not even his direct comps made that. Is he better than Boldy or Byfield? If Knies goes bridge it’s gonna be in the 5 million range, if he gives up a few UFA years I can see it going to the 7 range

Knies Comparables:

Dawson Mercer - 2 years @ 3.575
Alexis Lafrenière - 2 years @ 2.325
Kirby Dach - 4 years @ 3.362

Yeah if you account for a cap rise we are looking at a bridge between 4 and 5. Not 8 and 10…

 

[notdoneyet]

No at all... Canada used a set play to create confusion and using usa defensive structure against them

It what Matthews anticipating
View attachment 980723

It what happening
View attachment 980724

They no system in the world working when you've got someone covering absolutly nothing and out of play like fox was. Its not a coverage issue by Matthews and he didn't missed his assignment ( if they someone who missed it, it's fox) but a miscommunication created by the set play who caught fox out of position

Ok let’s look at this from matthews perspective

I’m going to leave my man who is the best in the game to challenge a guy who I know better than anyone else and is a pass first guy.

You know Mitch is in the corner and has no chance to score so you leave the most dangerous player on the planet wide open to receive a pass from an elite passer

 

[nuck]

Good on Mitch for having the game he had. Good things happen when you get in a corner instead of hanging out at the blueline. Nice feed to Bennett also.

Hopefully for the Leafs he watched 29 and 87 and took something from it how to compete every shift and how to battle every shift.

This was my hope for the tournament. That it was a bit of a distraction for the players right before, and could be a springboard to a strong finish to the season. I think we could see a bump for Marner with the win, the strong final game, and the time spent with those veteran stars.

 

[DarkKnight]

Marner was good, no shade, but this statement is highly debatable.

No it isn't. Results matter.

Holy lol

I had to view ignored with this response, it was worth it. I'll add self delusion to the list lol. Wowsers.

 

[thusk]

Ok let’s look at this from matthews perspective

I’m going to leave my man who is the best in the game to challenge a guy who I know better than anyone else and is a pass first guy.

You know Mitch is in the corner and has no chance to score so you leave the most dangerous player on the planet wide open to receive a pass from an elite passer

You know what's mean the word "system"? Usa was a zone coverage system and not a men to men coverage. Yeah mcdavid is a great player but matthews saw the puck going in the opposite corner and having like 1/4 second to take a decision and after doing it. His decision to forecheck was made even before fox goes behind the net because he was the closest player to that zone coverage so marner became his man. In a system, you have to trust your teammate will also do their job or your system having no chance tonwork... but Fox was completly out of position and Matthews looking worst because of Fox misreading