Speculation: If the Subban trade from Montreal to Edmonton occurred.

[McSuper]

Or, just trade eberle, and have a rnh/mcdavid/subban/hall core.

Sounds good to me.

Except the asking price was Draisaitl +++ .

Lets take a look .

Lucic McD Eberle
Pouliot RNH Puljujarvi
Maroon Draisaitl Yakupov

Klefbom Larsson
Sekera Fayne

or

Hall RNH Eberle
Pouliot McD Yakupov
Maroon Letestu Kassian

Sekera Subban
Davidson Fayne

I think most fans would go option number 1 . Option 2 is not as good as Montreal team last year who with Subban didn't make the playoffs

 

[McSuper]

That hack is Elliot Friedman

And I personally value klef + Larsson at 8.3 more then subban at 9. But maybe that's just me

It not just you . Subban is a stud offensively . Larsson is better defensively . Larsson is not a flashy big name D but he is sound and will make a difference for the Oilers more so then Subban - 4 high end assets

 

[varano]

Would an NHL team give a 1st round pick, a top prospect, and a medium prospect for shea weber?

I would say yes...

So why for subban is this unheard of ?


Kessel got a 1st round pick, medium prospect and so so prospect so why is this value unheard of for an elite D man like subban?

The only reason edmonton didn't do this is because Mcdavid is going to be a Max contract player.

Otherwise who cares about Draisitl? You have two really good enters already.

 

[tempest2i]

Would an NHL team give a 1st round pick, a top prospect, and a medium prospect for shea weber?

I would say yes...

So why for subban is this unheard of ?


Kessel got a 1st round pick, medium prospect and so so prospect so why is this value unheard of for an elite D man like subban?

The only reason edmonton didn't do this is because Mcdavid is going to be a Max contract player.

Otherwise who cares about Draisitl? You have two really good enters already.

I think you're right when you say Edmonton didn't pick up Subban because they knew McDavid is going to be a max contract player. But at the same time, I know a lot of Oilers fans that care about Draisaitl. Having three very good, young players at the top of your C depth chart is unique and strangely conforting as a fan.

At the end of the day, Chia traded a winger for Dmen which comes straight out of the "build from the middle out" strategy of the unwritten team building manual as well.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Montreal wanted another very good defenseman coming back. Imagine if they traded Subban without getting such a defenseman back.

That's the problem right there. Yes it would have been great to get Drai and the 4th overall and draft Dubois but at the same time that would have solved nothing and create a huge hole for the Habs on D

 

[StuckOutHere]

Montreal wanted another very good defenseman coming back. Imagine if they traded Subban without getting such a defenseman back.

Is that what happened?

 

[StuckOutHere]

It not just you . Subban is a stud offensively . Larsson is better defensively . Larsson is not a flashy big name D but he is sound and will make a difference for the Oilers more so then Subban - 4 high end assets

The thing about that is I reckon you could get yourself a pretty good young d-man with a package around Draisaitl+. They could have made the deal, got DuBois, and flipped Draisaitl at the draft for a pretty good, and much cheaper, d-man.

 

[Doublechin]

I read a story somewhere that said once Bergevin found out that Columbus was taking PLD at 3rd no matter what, he stopped all negotiations for moving up in the draft and focused on just moving Subban for equal D value.
Sad that all he cared about was the French player.
Puljujarvi would have been a really nice addition, but he's not French so.....


The 4OA+Draisaitl+Klefbom was an HF boards trade proposal being discussed, I don't know if that was the actual proposal.

There's also a story that Chiareli broke up negotiations once he was Pulju available at 4.

 

[BB88]

Would an NHL team give a 1st round pick, a top prospect, and a medium prospect for shea weber?

I would say yes...

So why for subban is this unheard of ?


Kessel got a 1st round pick, medium prospect and so so prospect so why is this value unheard of for an elite D man like subban?

The only reason edmonton didn't do this is because Mcdavid is going to be a Max contract player.

Otherwise who cares about Draisitl? You have two really good enters already.

Montreal asking price >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kessel return.

You don't just give up Dra because you have other C's as well, he has pretty damm high value himself.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

So hockey fans..
After some time to relax about the hall trade and the subban trade. Are you glad the Oilers didn't trade Draisaitl + for subban?
Montreal fans, are you happy with Weber as the return? Would you have preferred Draisaitl + the 4th pick?
As an Oilers fan, Happy to keep Drai and trade Hall.

It would've taken far more then just Draisaitl+4th to get Subban. Chia would've had to send at least Klefbom back to Montreal as Montreal would've needed to add another D-man after losing Subban.

 

[lamp9post]

There's also a story that Chiareli broke up negotiations once he was Pulju available at 4.

I'll never understand why a deal of the potential magnitude of this one would be broken up by the difference between Puju and Dubois (from either side - why MTL would walk away if Dubois wasn't there at 4/why EDM would walk away if Puju was there at 4).

If Montreal really liked the package, would they really decline if they had to draft Puju at 4 (who is a really good player, perhaps better than Dubois anyway)?

If Edmonton really liked Subban, would they really decline just because Puju was there at 4 instead of Dubois?

Both scenarios seem crazy to me.

 

[tempest2i]

I'll never understand why a deal of the potential magnitude of this one would be broken up by the difference between Puju and Dubois (from either side - why MTL would walk away if Dubois wasn't there at 4/why EDM would walk away if Puju was there at 4).

If Montreal really liked the package, would they really decline if they had to draft Puju at 4 (who is a really good player, perhaps better than Dubois anyway)?

If Edmonton really liked Subban, would they really decline just because Puju was there at 4 instead of Dubois?

Both scenarios seem crazy to me.

Maybe Edmonton would be a little more willing to trade Draisaitl in a package for Subban if Dubios is available to fill in the hole left from Draisaitl (read: young C prospect with big potential).

 

[BB88]

Maybe Edmonton would be a little more willing to trade Draisaitl in a package for Subban if Dubios is available to fill in the hole left from Draisaitl (read: young C prospect with big potential).

I thought Chia loved Pulju?
He couldn't stop smiling after Columbus made the pick. Pulju can help to fix their biggest weakness on the forward group.

 

[THall4]

A Puljujarvi who hasn't played in like five months just racked up 6 points in 2 tournament games for the Oilers. He's going to be a big time player I think (not just based on those 2 games, obviously, but he just shows well at every event he goes to).

Skating, size, shot, vision, I.Q., he's got everything, I think in some ways honestly he's better than Laine.

If the Habs win a Cup with Radulov and Weber, then Bergevin was in the right, but I think it's more likely they don't and in 2 years you have Weber declining and Radulov too (most forwards do not get better after age 31/32). Even if you had gotten Puljujarvi, there's nothing to say you couldn't add Radulov too anyway.

IMO Bergevin knows as long as the Habs make the playoffs, his job is safe, and that was his no.1 priority.

Pulju was unbelievable in Penticton. 6'4 209Lbs man child that dominated (other children of course) but remember...hes been playing professionally in Finland against men for a couple years.

This kid has the wheels and IQ that make me believe he will fit like a glove on McDavid's RW....if not, he can own the 2nd line ...kids a line driver...we'll see if he can do it at the NHL level though.

win now mode or not...im taking Pulju over Radulov ALL DAY ...and I'd be floored if NHL GMs didn't think the same.

 

[HabsTown]

As a Habs fan,

I would have taken Draisaitl + 4th (Dubois or Pulju, didn't care about the French factor, being French myself) + Nurse/Klefbom (probably Nurse being offered, since he has less value).

Then, I'd threw 7x7 (even 7.5) to Yandle or 5.5m to Demers.

 

[tempest2i]

I thought Chia loved Pulju?
He couldn't stop smiling after Columbus made the pick. Pulju can help to fix their biggest weakness on the forward group.

I agree, I think Chia was very happy with the Pulji pick. The point I was trying to make is Edmonton may of been more receptive to the idea of trading their young C prospect if they had free access to a similar player that could fill that hole once Draisaitl is gone. PoolParty is a great prospect, but he is not expected to develop into a C, and therefore he wouldn't be considered the type of player that could fill in the hole left from trading Drai.

 

[Beendair Donedat]

Habs would have made out like bandits and have been set for the next decade basically if the trade went down, although it likely means that Price walks at the end of his contract (which he may do anyway).

Comes down to the fact that Bergevin wanted the French player (Dubois) and Oilers wouldn't pay the hefty price tag. Can't blame them at all, they have their meal ticket in McDavid who will command huge money very soon. Oilers also wouldn't have got Lucic if they'd went all in on Subban.

Oilers got their much needed powerforward in Lucic and a very solid looking Puljujarvi on the right side that will likely be a modern day version of Kurri. They are a well balanced team with lots of assets to move and a beautiful new arena. They are happy.

Habs got a franchise crease clearing defenseman with a nasty streak in Weber (something they needed) and ran Subban out of town (what management wanted). Also drafted a potential franchise defenseman in Sergachev and signed a big ticket UFA in Radulov. They lost out on a lot of value for Subban but also acquired a terrific leader, an amazing prospect and have more team unity now. They are cautiously optimistic and management is happier.

 

[Measles]

I'll never understand why a deal of the potential magnitude of this one would be broken up by the difference between Puju and Dubois (from either side - why MTL would walk away if Dubois wasn't there at 4/why EDM would walk away if Puju was there at 4).

If Montreal really liked the package, would they really decline if they had to draft Puju at 4 (who is a really good player, perhaps better than Dubois anyway)?

If Edmonton really liked Subban, would they really decline just because Puju was there at 4 instead of Dubois?

Both scenarios seem crazy to me.

I agree with you 100%. The difference between Pulju and Dubois could not have been the deal-breaker in this imo. If the Montreal ask (as reported by Friedman) is accurate, it is way beyond reason and there was likely a fairly large gap between the Montreal ask and the Edm best offer. Chiarelli said in an interview this summer that there was not a deal close with Mtl, and that although there were discussions, "they were not very long".

 

[Homesick]

Habs would have made out like bandits and have been set for the next decade basically if the trade went down, although it likely means that Price walks at the end of his contract (which he may do anyway).

Comes down to the fact that Bergevin wanted the French player (Dubois) and Oilers wouldn't pay the hefty price tag. Can't blame them at all, they have their meal ticket in McDavid who will command huge money very soon. Oilers also wouldn't have got Lucic if they'd went all in on Subban.

Oilers got their much needed powerforward in Lucic and a very solid looking Puljujarvi on the right side that will likely be a modern day version of Kurri. They are a well balanced team with lots of assets to move and a beautiful new arena. They are happy.

Habs got a franchise crease clearing defenseman with a nasty streak in Weber (something they needed) and ran Subban out of town (what management wanted). Also drafted a potential franchise defenseman in Sergachev and signed a big ticket UFA in Radulov. They lost out on a lot of value for Subban but also acquired a terrific leader, an amazing prospect and have more team unity now. They are cautiously optimistic and management is happier.

It was either McKenzie or Dreger that said the talks between Montreal and Edmonton were very brief because A) the Oilers didn't like the asking price B) weren't interested in Subbans salary when they know McDavid will be one of the highest paid players in the game

Nashville fans were saying long before the trade that Weber had lost a step and was a #2 defenseman for them. He'll still be a 40-50 point defenseman though

 

[BB88]

I agree, I think Chia was very happy with the Pulji pick. The point I was trying to make is Edmonton may of been more receptive to the idea of trading their young C prospect if they had free access to a similar player that could fill that hole once Draisaitl is gone. PoolParty is a great prospect, but he is not expected to develop into a C, and therefore he wouldn't be considered the type of player that could fill in the hole left from trading Drai.

I'm a bit lost here but the price was Dra+ 4th overall+ Klefbom/Nurse+, so how would have they gotten Dupois to replace Dra if they made that trade?

I'm no Edmonton expert but I thought I read here multiple times that Chia wanted one of the Finns and was disappointed after they dropped out of top3.
Pulju was the best prospect(fit/need wise) for Oilers from this draft.

 

[doubledown99]

I remember listening to Bob Stauffer's radio show (Oilers Now) that whole week of the draft. In the middle of the week he discussed Subban a lot. Said was hearing crazy rumors of him being available. He said the Oilers would definitely be interested and was floating the Drai + 4th overall pick for him idea. He then sat down with Chiarelli on Thursday night (night before draft) and his show on Friday he came out and said a trade for Subban was a "long shot". You guys can look up the trade rumors thread on the Oilers forum to see the endless discussions on the topic by posters on HF. He said the ask from MTL was astronomical. He said this repeatedly that it would cost:

Drai
4th overall
Klefbom
Nurse
+

Callers into his show pushed him on the plus and he said likely 1st round pick in 2016. He said MTL was asking for 5 assets from the Oilers and that it was too high of a cost and that "if I was GM there is no way I would move Klefbom and Nurse both in a package for Subban". Some callers ripped him. He tried to point out the expansion draft and why Nurse was valuable etc.

Friedman said after the draft that it was Drai, 4th overall, Klefbom/Nurse, plus one more asset that he couldn't nail down. Very close to what Stauffer reported.

In the end I think the ask was closer to what Stauffer reported:

Drai
Klef
Nurse
4th overall
2016 1st

...and I can't blame Chia for not going for that. Really though who cares. It's over an done with. Time to move on.

 

[ManofSteel55]

It wasn't Draisaitl + 4.

It was Draisaitl + 4 + Klefbom + at least one more significant piece.

Even that may have been off the table the moment CBJ selected PLD at 3.

This is key to remember. Montreal was super high on Dubois. If he wasn't available anymore, the deal may not have even been on the table anymore.

I like Subban, but Draisaitl, Pulujarvi and Klefbom for him is far worse than Hall for Larsson.

 

[JuniorNelson]

Edmonton should have made the deal at any cost. Subban is not replaceable. Habs were fools.

 

[glenbuis]

Is that what happened?

well the guy looks right at home on the top pair for team canada so what do you think ?

 

[McTrashBoat]

Edmonton should have made the deal at any cost. Subban is not replaceable. Habs were fools.

Center depth and cap management is important too