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If Marc Bergevin is fired, who do you want for next Habs GM ?

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Next Habs GM

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The Great Weal

The Great Weal

Phil's Pizza
Jan 15, 2015
54,102
68,810
Andy said:
He won't get canned because the habs will make the playoffs this year.

And there is a good chance they can make it through round 1.
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I think the Habs will lose in 6 games in the first round which is better than most expected (i.e not a sweep), Molson will be satisfied, and Bergevin will say we lost to a good team, it happens.
 

dcyhabs

Registered User
May 30, 2008
4,420
2,653
Montreal
Sorinth said:
The most important role for the GM is hiring (And retaining) high quality people throughout the organization and you don't need to be an ex-player to do that. In terms of education, I doubt a formal education is all that important. Most people will learn way more on the job then in a classroom. Certainly intelligence is important, but a degree isn't all that great of an indicator for intelligence.
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You need some kind of training, and most GMs have some sort of business education. There are probably other useful skills, negotiation, stats, probabilities, sports psychology... Well there might be someone out there who is just a natural GM, but how are you going to find him/her?

I still doubt that playing hockey is the best preparation for a GM or coaching role. I'm sure it helps with some aspects but I doubt it is essential and I doubt it's useful enough to narrow GM searches to a few dozen talkative ex-players.
 
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dcyhabs

Registered User
May 30, 2008
4,420
2,653
Montreal
Harry Wong said:
Claude Lemieux. Only 4 Stsnaley Cups, last 2 that Habs won, 2 for Lamorillo, tough and skilled Karacter,very successful player agent and speaks french...
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I don't know how he's evolved since retirement but he was a pretty hated Marchand/Avery-like player. Lots of nastiness and cheap shots. Not sure he's the guys the habs would want as the face of the franchise and, unless he's matured a lot, not a guy you'd want. As an agent, sure, he just has to annoy GMs.
 
Andy

Andy

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Jun 26, 2008
31,988
16,361
Montreal
Admittedly, I've played this game before of who should be the next GM, but the issue is that we do not know what any potential GM actually thinks.

A better exercise would to see what we would like to see/or think the next GM should have as a philosophy. At the end of the day, we have no idea candidate x or y has the philosphy you are looking for.
 
SOLR

SOLR

Registered User
Jun 4, 2006
13,194
6,740
Toronto / North York
Lshap said:
Is he? He's in his early 60s, not young but certainly not old. He's an exec with Philly so he's still in the game. That said, I have no idea if he's looking to get behind the steering wheel again. If Lombardi's still hungry, yeah, I'd grab him in a microsecond.

Tallon is 70 and walked away after a negative PR issue with Florida. Would he want to restart with another team? No idea. But he's very good.

EDIT: Lou Lamoriello is 78 and still the sharpest GM in the league. I don't think it's about age or raw intelligence. Some have the appetite and mindset for the position, others don't.
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I consider anyone outside their 50s past their prime, it's just science. Lou has certainly declined over the past 10 years.

There are a few smart players, Joe Sakic, Steve Yzerman, Shanahan there are more. But I'd rather get a Brisebois, someone who beats the competition analytically and who's not scared to make the move that doesn't please the market in the short term.
 
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Sorinth

Sorinth

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Jan 18, 2013
11,398
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dcyhabs said:
You need some kind of training, and most GMs have some sort of business education. There are probably other useful skills, negotiation, stats, probabilities, sports psychology... Well there might be someone out there who is just a natural GM, but how are you going to find him/her?

I still doubt that playing hockey is the best preparation for a GM or coaching role. I'm sure it helps with some aspects but I doubt it is essential and I doubt it's useful enough to narrow GM searches to a few dozen talkative ex-players.
Click to expand...

On the job training in other positions such as Assistant GM, or being GM of AHL/Junior teams is going to teach a person way more stuff then a business degree. Pretty much anyone who is interested in a subject can learn about it without a formal education. It's all about mindset.

I agree playing hockey does little to prepare someone for a GM/coaching role. Like getting a job anywhere it's often a case of who you know not what you know, so ex-players get these jobs because they know the people doing the hiring. This who you know can be valuable, for example a GM who can talk to his good buddy who runs an OHL team in order to get extra info on a prospect is an asset. It's just low down on the list of things you need from the GM.
 

dcyhabs

Registered User
May 30, 2008
4,420
2,653
Montreal
Sorinth said:
On the job training in other positions such as Assistant GM, or being GM of AHL/Junior teams is going to teach a person way more stuff then a business degree. Pretty much anyone who is interested in a subject can learn about it without a formal education. It's all about mindset.

I agree playing hockey does little to prepare someone for a GM/coaching role. Like getting a job anywhere it's often a case of who you know not what you know, so ex-players get these jobs because they know the people doing the hiring. This who you know can be valuable, for example a GM who can talk to his good buddy who runs an OHL team in order to get extra info on a prospect is an asset. It's just low down on the list of things you need from the GM.
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Sure, but different people will learn better or worse on the job. It's pretty rare for an NHL GM to be good at multiple aspects of the game, and part of learning the job is understanding the business side, calculating what you can do with the cap long term, and evaluating players. You need some sales/marketing skill to sell your plans, motivate players, etc. Being a former star or respected player helps with some of these items. How far you can go depends on innate ability, little to do with hockey, and accumulated knowledge. Education may not be essential but I suspect that some specifics will help. Contacts help, too, of course. I suspect many ex-players, like Bergevin, lack the interest, aptitude, and patience to understand some aspects of GMing.
 
Lshap

Lshap

Hardline Moderate
Jun 6, 2011
28,036
27,054
Montreal
SOLR said:
I consider anyone outside their 50s past their prime, it's just science. Lou has certainly declined over the past 10 years.

There are a few smart players, Joe Sakic, Steve Yzerman, Shanahan there are more. But I'd rather get a Brisebois, someone who beats the competition analytically and who's not scared to make the move that doesn't please the market in the short term.
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Over 50 is past their prime? Most top managers, leaders, and political figures only reach their prime in their 50s. They don't begin declining until they reach their 70s. The market-be-damned attitude you like in Brisebois is more often found in over-50 execs who have the experience and confidence to ignore the noise.

Given the choice between hiring another younger rookie GM and praying we get lucky, or hiring an older experienced guy who's succeeded at the GM job, I'll take the latter everyday. Lamoriello's age hasn't stopped him from building contenders everywhere he goes. He knows what it takes. We need that ability in Montreal. Desperately.
 
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SOLR

SOLR

Registered User
Jun 4, 2006
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Lshap said:
Over 50 is past their prime? Most top managers, leaders, and political figures only reach their prime in their 50s. They don't begin declining until they reach their 70s. The market-be-damned attitude you like in Brisebois is more often found in over-50 execs who have the experience and confidence to ignore the noise.

Given the choice between hiring another younger rookie GM and praying we get lucky, or hiring an older experienced guy who's succeeded at the GM job, I'll take the latter everyday. Lamoriello's age hasn't stopped him from building contenders everywhere he goes. He knows what it takes. We need that ability in Montreal. Desperately.
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I said past the 50s. We decline in the 60s, quickly (dementia aside, it seems to follow the rest of the health signals).

Vast majority of adults have lost a fair share of capabilities in their 70s.

There are plenty of young talented managers in their 40s. Unlike Bergevin.

There is one Lou Lamoriello and he would never come to Montreal.
 
SOLR

SOLR

Registered User
Jun 4, 2006
13,194
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Vachon23 said:
And Madden Jr is an engineer from McGill
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I've heard Madden talk many times, he's no manager, he's smart and a great scout. Similar track record as Pierre Gauthier. I just don't believe in the scout to GM track, ain't a good track. Chief scouts don't lead much, they arbitrate.

Gretzky couldn't manage either and he's smart. I wasn't saying that all you need is smarts.

But we haven't had a smart, complete, GM in his prime since Serge Savard, even if his late scouting was terrible.

Houle <== ??? track
Bergevin <==??? track
Gauthier <== scout track
A.Savard <== scout track

Gainey had "it" but tragedy struck.
Brisebois didn't have when he was with us, but he learned under Yzerman, now he'd be ready.
 
Vachon23

Vachon23

Registered User
Oct 14, 2015
19,087
23,314
Victoriaville
SOLR said:
I've heard Madden talk many times, he's no manager, he's smart and a great scout. Similar track record as Pierre Gauthier. I just don't believe in the scout to GM track, ain't a good track. Chief scouts don't lead much, they arbitrate.

Gretzky couldn't manage either and he's smart. I wasn't saying that all you need is smarts.

But we haven't had a smart, complete, GM in his prime since Serge Savard, even if his late scouting was terrible.

Houle <== ??? track
Bergevin <==??? track
Gauthier <== scout track
A.Savard <== scout track

Gainey had "it" but tragedy struck.
Brisebois didn't have when he was with us, but he learned under Yzerman, now he'd be ready.
Click to expand...
Totally agree with that ! I do think Madden need more Ex experience to. The problem I had is I taught you where saying that Madden wasn’t a good hockey guy
 

JoshuaSchwartz

Registered User
Nov 9, 2007
42
14
Vachon23 said:
He’s VP of hockey operations + Senior Advisor with the Devils since 2018 but he was AGM with the Blues during 4 yrs during when they build the Stanley Cup winning team in 2019
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I think he's the most ideal candidate to replace Bergevin.
 
SOLR

SOLR

Registered User
Jun 4, 2006
13,194
6,740
Toronto / North York
Let's face it, Roy isn't a disastrous candidate.

I'm thinking about this in 2 ways.

We need a very smart and need-to-win GM.

Roy is off the scale in need-to-win attitude.
Not the smartest. Depends if he could surround himself.
 
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