If it's not Jack Campbell who should be the Leafs new #1 goalie?

[Racer88]

Vegas, Montreal, Florida, Los Angeles, and Anaheim all had goalies totally close to 8 million ot more recently. It happens.

It sure won’t happen with the way the Leafs have allocated their cap

 

[Racer88]

View attachment 559715


This gives 4.7 million to fill out 2 forward spots.
With Campbell at 5 And Mrazek.

I’m not suggesting this is likely. It seems like dubas wants to move on. From both goalies. But we could easily take on a 5 million goalie and keep mrazek if we absolutely had to.

If we got rid of both we would have 13 million to spend on 2 forwards and 2 goalies.

Leaf cap somehow is actually better than a lot

leafs cap may seem better but there is a lot of bargain basement scraps that you have in the bottom 6. Last year our bottom 6 was insufficient and this one looks worse

 

[Nylanderthal]

leafs cap may seem better but there is a lot of bargain basement scraps that you have in the bottom 6. Last year our bottom 6 was insufficient and this one looks worse

4.7m buys a couple of decent bottom 6 guys, could even get them both for ~$4m and then afford a slight pay bump to one of Anderson or Steeves spots and replace them with a 1.5-2m vet.
Part of this teams issue in the bottom 6 is not having room for these younger hungry marlies to come in and earn a job.
If they’re not up to it you can address it mid season.

 

[Legion34]

leafs cap may seem better but there is a lot of bargain basement scraps that you have in the bottom 6. Last year our bottom 6 was insufficient and this one looks worse

1.) those are place holders. Toronto can reimagine their bottom 6 as they see fit. If it’s not Robertson/steeves it could be any of the number of players who have proven they will come here for less

think you are severely overestimating the bottom 6 of most nhl teams. The 7-12th forwards of most teams are generally pretty junk

Darren helm is playing on Colorado. Tampa is playing Reilly smith. St louis had bozak playing in ot.

Toronto has a 110 pt plus team. There is a lot of grass is greener.

And a worst case 4.7 on a 2/3 winger is pretty good. That’s with 9 in net

 

[TheRumble]

The 2021 Habs lost to Conn Smythe winning goalie Vasilevskiy, while having Carey Price to help the Habs blow by our Leafs.
2014 Rangers had "King" Henrik Lundqvist in net a seasonal Vezina finalist.
2004 Flames Miikka Kiprusoff
1999 Sabres has Dominik Hasek

These were all All-star goalies and Vezina and even got Hart trophy nominations.

PS. The whole arguement against the Leafs is they can't be a well rounded team because they have 3 X $11 mil forwards and cheap out on their goalies and haven't won a single playoff round in a Salary Cap era.

That's a garbage argument then because the Leafs are an incredibly well rounded team. They had a winning record in every month this season despite only getting over .900 goaltending for 1 month (November). They had a top 2 offense and a top 7 defense pretty much all year. I'd love to have a Shesterkin but there are only 3-4 guys in the league like that right now. Hellebyuck, Vas, Shesterkin, maybe Sorokin. Oettinger you'd like a bigger sample size out of before saying that about him.

The point isn't that we shouldn't look for those goalies but we don't need those types of goalies.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Robertson could be on the 4th there. Cap friendly doesn’t give you space holders.

Worst case with realistic FA signings. They have 4.7 to find 2 forwards. That’s not too bad in a flat cap.

Best case they have 13.5 for 2 f and goaltending.

Thats fair but also means the vast majority of the bottom 6 will be on sub 1 million dollar non elc contracts which is a little worrying when depth scoring has been an issue.

Robertson definitely is a wild card, I'm guessing they will test out some of the young guys like him and if it isn't working out great add a middle 6 LWer at the deadline.

 

[Advanced stats]

Grubauer

Hmm, I never thought of Grubauer as an option, but I wonder if Seattle could be enticed to move him before they tank his value more.

Marazk could be a great project for them and we'd obviously add a bunch.

 

[Legion34]

Thats fair but also means the vast majority of the bottom 6 will be on sub 1 million dollar non elc contracts which is a little worrying when depth scoring has been an issue.

Robertson definitely is a wild card, I'm guessing they will test out some of the young guys like him and if it isn't working out great add a middle 6 LWer at the deadline.

It’s kind of the norm though. We don’t realize it but most teams 4th lines are junk and prospectd
Hoping to catch fire.

Boston plays lazar and foligno
Colorado helm
Tampa rielly smith/bellmare
Colorado helm
Rangers hunt.
Fla Thornton.

Most bottom 6 are pretty bad.

 

[Nylanderthal]

It’s kind of the norm though. We don’t realize it but most teams 4th lines are junk and prospectd
Hoping to catch fire.

Boston plays lazar and foligno
Colorado helm
Tampa rielly smith/bellmare
Colorado helm
Rangers hunt.
Fla Thornton.

Most bottom 6 are pretty bad.

Also if you don’t have open spots for the young guys to fight for you never get to see which ones are worth hanging onto long term.
If they’re all out their depth and it’s evident and costing you games you bolster the area in season.
Lots of bottom/middle 6 forwards shake free during a long season

 

[nuck]

Bobrovsky with 50% retained? Grubauer with a healthy sweetener to take Mrazek?

 

[Menzinger]

The 2021 Habs lost to Conn Smythe winning goalie Vasilevskiy, while having Carey Price to help the Habs blow by our Leafs.
2014 Rangers had "King" Henrik Lundqvist in net a seasonal Vezina finalist.
2004 Flames Miikka Kiprusoff
1999 Sabres has Dominik Hasek

These were all All-star goalies and Vezina and even got Hart trophy nominations.

PS. The whole arguement against the Leafs is they can't be a well rounded team because they have 3 X $11 mil forwards and cheap out on their goalies and haven't won a single playoff round in a Salary Cap era.

Though the team that won game 1 of the finals spends just 1 mil more on their goaltending tandem than the Leafs and acquired their starter during the last offseason via a trade.

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

To the people suggesting Grubauer, please stop, I'd rather stick with Mrazek. Grubauer is awful.

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

They develop on the Marlies until they are good enough to play for the Leafs. People are complaining that they haven’t develop one good enough for that.

The Leafs haven't developed a goalie because the AHL is trash for development. Look around the league and find goalies that have come up from the AHL. They are few and far between. For examples:

Husso was a fairly highly rated prospect when he was drafted.
Final year in Liiga: 1.91 GAA .927 SV%
1st AHL: 2.37 GAA .920 SV%
2nd AHL: 2.42 GAA .922 SV%
His next 2 seasons were awful. He had no business getting a chance in the AHL based on the last 2 years.

Binnington had equally mediocre AHL stats.

Saros played 1 year in the AHL and then split time between the NHL and AHL for 2 season.

Hart played half a year in the AHL.

Oettinger played 1 year in the AHL, played last season in the NHL, and for some reason started this year back in the AHL?

Point is goalies should not be developing the AHL. The level of competition is not good enough for them to be there long. A year or 2 and then they need tougher competition.

 

[LeafChief]

Marc-Andre Fleury is our Ed Belfour.

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

Marc-Andre Fleury is our Ed Belfour.

Fleury isn't signing here. I'd wager that he'd rather retire than sign here.

 

[Racer88]

Though the team that won game 1 of the finals spends just 1 mil more on their goaltending tandem than the Leafs and acquired their starter during the last offseason via a trade.

To bad Dubas couldn’t do that

 

[Nylanderthal]

To bad Dubas couldn’t do that

 

[Menzinger]

To bad Dubas couldn’t do that

It's certainly now the most important question of the offseason. Can the front office find the right guy

 

[Racer88]

Doesn’t mean it’s not true

It's certainly now the most important question of the offseason. Can the front office find the right guy

Agreed 100%

 

[LeafEgo]

Well it seems Freddie was Jack before Jack. Moreover, he rebounded in a system that was conducive to better numbers. That lends to my position that our depth is at least as important to address. It may improve whomever we acquire or retain.

Campbell was a back-up to Kari Lehtonen and Jonathan Quick. That speaks volumes. And yes he dipped. But he also peaked and he finished with a respectable record and a Leaf he has absolutely provided this club with wins albeit not that one more when it counts. Qualified by saying: Our offense lacking when it counts overshadows.

I'm not a goalie expert either whatever that entails. But I think equally you don't have to have professional accreditation to know the cheaper option between equal options is the better option. And the idea of paying for the largest (and likely longest) contract when cheaper options are available and at the cost of only a contract, is just nuts to me.

Thank God it's just all speculation at the moment.

You will have to expand on Freddy was Jack before Jack - I'm not sure what similarities exist. Also not sure how being a back up to a good goaltender speaks volumes. As a GM you're looking for consistency and reliability in net year in year out.

We can forget about forward depth. You can only spend so much on forwards. A cap split of 55/20/7 (F/D/G) is about as high as you can go wagering on offensive power.

We have 40M tied up in four forwards, you get 15M more to spend under that structure on the remaining eight. You can't have more.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

To the people suggesting Grubauer, please stop, I'd rather stick with Mrazek. Grubauer is awful.

No you would not rather have Mrazek let's not say things we both know aren't true.

 

[Nylanderthal]

No you would not rather have Mrazek let's not say things we both know aren't true.

If given the choice between using assets to move mrazek and using assets acquiring Grubauer, or pairing mrazek with another 1b and rolling the dice it would be a long conversation about opportunity cost with my group.
Just because mrazek sucked this year doesn’t mean he’s going to suck this year, same goes for gru. Except he makes 2.1m more for twice as long, cutting into the extensions for our forwards.
Gru sucks and this team is cooked, mrazek sucks and you bury him/ use his short term contract as cap ballast in trade and find another goalie

 

[ITM]

You will have to expand on Freddy was Jack before Jack - I'm not sure what similarities exist. Also not sure how being a back up to a good goaltender speaks volumes. As a GM you're looking for consistency and reliability in net year in year out.

We can forget about forward depth. You can only spend so much on forwards. A cap split of 55/20/7 (F/D/G) is about as high as you can go wagering on offensive power.

We have 40M tied up in four forwards, you get 15M more to spend under that structure on the remaining eight. You can't have more.

You will have to expand on Freddy was Jack before Jack: This to say Freddie Andersen was a scapegoat of another kind. Wasn't clutch when he needed to be, etc, etc. And I defended Andersen. But he was absolutely lambasted as not being the guy. He couldn't make one more save, etc, etc.

Jack Campbell despite putting up very good playoffs performances has been criticized exactly the same way. It's not the lack of scoring from our offense, it's Freddie or it's Jack.

On being a backup to Kari Lehtonen and Jonathan Quick. Well...Net management being what it is, when you've got nigh best of era goaltending in front of you, the kid with a lot of potential isn't about to unseat the proven winner. It's another way of saying, but for goalies at the top of the league, Campbell likely gets longer looks earlier in his career.

We can forget about forward depth: Well, we're going to have to find a way. Maybe Douglas is our new 4C. Maybe Kniess makes his debut earlier than expected. Whatever the means is that we begin to fill out our depth, the one thing we can't do is hamstring ourselves by using assets on positions that can be had (ie signed) for free.

With respect to the cap, I agree. But it affects what we can do in terms of signing a goalie. And signing the cheaper of equal options is the only sane action to take. Which brings us back to Gibson; We're thin at depth, compromised at cap, so rather than sign a cheaper Campbell, Husso, whomever, we move out limited assets and take on greater cap?

We have 40M tied up in four forwards: Exactly. See above.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Though the team that won game 1 of the finals spends just 1 mil more on their goaltending tandem than the Leafs and acquired their starter during the last offseason via a trade.

Colorado actually only spent 5.5m on goaltending this year, which is the same as the Leafs this year, and less than the Leafs any other year with this core.

Leafs cap allocated to goaltending:

2016-2017: 5.80m
2017-2018: 5.85m
2018-2019: 5.70m
2019-2020: 5.70m
2020-2021: 6.65m
2021-2022: 5.45m

 

[NinjaKick]

Building a team from the net out is actually a very old idea in hockey and it has never produced a Cup champ.

to be fair, the Devils from the 90's and 2000's built their team around Brodeur and were extremely successful