If it's not Jack Campbell who should be the Leafs new #1 goalie?

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he's played 32 games combined the last 2 years 32 out of 164 possible games.

It's not just the groin injury but that does seem to be the more serious one since it happened 3 times last year.

Mrazek is going down the path of Rick Dipirtro

That's why he needs to go one way or the other

There were only 56 games last year, so that is 138 games. Mrazek was only going to play half of those even if he was fully healthy. So 32/70.

He missed all of his time last year with a thumb injury, and he came back playing well. Nothing to do with his groin.
 
I need to ask the question. Now that we know that Dubas plans on coming back with the same team, will that not be the same for the goalie tandem?

Goalies for the 22-23 season:

Campbell
Mrazek

Let's say Dubas feels that Mrazek can bounce back and that Campbell can be signed at a reasonable cap hit?

:leafs
 
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Development continues at the NHL level. If not you have serious issues, especially with young players.



Stats are a little shallow but promising. The again if you don't play them you'll never know at the NHL level I guess.
You do have a point…..

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[TR]
[TD]2022-05-04[/TD]
[TD]Missed the last 16 regular season and first playoff games (groin).[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2022-04-01[/TD]
[TD]Groin, injured reserve.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2022-03-30[/TD]
[TD]Groin, sidelined indefinitely.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2021-12-30[/TD]
[TD]Activated from the COVID-19 list by the Toronto Maple Leafs.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2021-12-21[/TD]
[TD]COVID-19, day-to-day.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2021-12-11[/TD]
[TD]Missed 17 games (groin).[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2021-11-07[/TD]
[TD]Groin, injured reserve.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2021-11-06[/TD]
[TD]Groin, day-to-day.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2021-10-30[/TD]
[TD]Missed 6 games (groin).[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2021-10-16[/TD]
[TD]Groin, sidelined indefinitely.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]2020-21[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2021-05-03[/TD]
[TD]Missed 6 games (lower body injury).[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2021-04-22[/TD]
[TD]Lower body injury, day-to-day.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2021-04-04[/TD]
[TD]Missed 31 games (right thumb surgery).[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2021-02-03[/TD]
[TD]Right thumb surgery, sidelined indefinitely.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2021-02-01[/TD]
[TD]Upper body injury, sidelined indefinitely.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2021-01-31[/TD]
[TD]Upper body injury, day-to-day.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]2019-20[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2020-03-10[/TD]
[TD]Missed 6 games (concussion).[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2020-02-25[/TD]
[TD]Concussion, sidelined indefinitely.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]2018-19[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2019-05-07[/TD]
[TD]Missed the last 2 playoff games (lower body injury).[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2019-04-29[/TD]
[TD]Lower body injury, day-to-day.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2018-11-24[/TD]
[TD]Missed 9 games (lower body injury).[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2018-11-03[/TD]
[TD]Lower body injury, day-to-day.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]2015-16[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2016-06-28[/TD]
[TD]Detroit Red Wings tendered a qualifying offer.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2016-03-22[/TD]
[TD]Missed 2 games (illness).[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2016-03-17[/TD]
[TD]Illness, day-to-day.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2016-03-02[/TD]
[TD]Missed 1 game (groin).[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2016-02-29[/TD]
[TD]Groin, day-to-day.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Looks like the guy has been made of glass all along
 
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Gibson being a better goalie three years ago was not just a better goalie then Campbell he was one of the best goalies in the league. Making his potential miles ahead of Campbells. A change of scenery can always do a player good he was on a bad team and faced the harder teams and probably had no motivation etc. I think coming here would be a good thing for him and if he actually wants to win coming here could light a fire under his ass. Let's also not forget Campbell hasn't really proved anything either... He has what? two years of being a decent goalie and before that was a backup all of his life hardly playing... the change of scenery did him good.

I didn't say Campbell was just as good as Gibson. I said even Gibson at his worse is still as good as Campbell so he just needs to play better than his worst and he will be better than Campbell. Campbell had better stats obviously... He played for a team that finished fourth in the league.

Spend assets? We're in winning a Stanley Cup mode not a rebuilding phase. If you can get a goalie of Gibson's caliber and the risk pays off and he regains form you have one of the best goalies in the league. We need a goalie that can be that and Binnington, Husso, Campbell, or anyone else available isn't going to give you that except maybe Varlamov and I don't see Islanders trading him.

Any other top goalie in the league isn't available and no team is going to trade a top 10 goalie in the league if they have it. So regardless if it's Campbell or anyone else you're pretty much getting the same goaltending across the board.
Making his potential ahead of Campbell's: Untrue. Campbell pre-draft was as hyped - and with reason - as any goalie in living memory. If you say Gibson's potential is ahead of Campbell's, but factually, statistically lesser than Campbell's performance, that doesn't reconcile in the least.

If you're gauging potential, you're testing against trends. One goalie has been trending downwards and the other the opposite way. You can discount that as not having proven anything but in a contest of the better goalie, Campbell for the last two seasons has been a better goalie than Gibson.

You mention a backup all of his life. Correct: Behind the most underrated goalie of his era in Kari Lehtonen and then an all-world two time Stanley Cup champion in Jonathan Quick.

It's your opinion that Gibson's worst is as good as Campbell's best, but the facts don't echo your preference. So if potential is being reached then by all means side with Gibson if that's your strong preference, but be sure not to forget Jack Campbell's pre-draft consideration and the goalies he's been parked behind before finally getting his chance in Toronto.

Spend assets? Darcy Kuemper is a game up on Vasilevskiy. He's been mentioned as a possible target to replace Campbell. But if you listen to the commentary across the board the common denominator as to why we're seeing Tampa and Colorado in the Finals comes down to team depth; bottom six and bottom pairing d-men lending superior support for their club against thinner squads.

If you have as you note ("So regardless...") an equivalency of goaltending talent to choose from then the importance of spending assets to get what's otherwise also free seems misguided WHEN...you also have needs elsewhere.

So we have two choices given our cap situation and asset cache with respect to goaltender acquisition:

(1) Shift our LIMITED assets to acquire an equivalent goalie and possibly compromise on depth acquisition in the event there isn't a better goalie on the market available for the same assets.

(2) Acquire the equivalent goalie on the free market at no asset cost and focus our LIMITED assets to build team depth.

To my mind, our team depth is the primary focus for using assets given that it is unlikely Oettinger or Sorokin is available for trade. On the free market if we can get Campbell or Husso at around $4M, that's our move. Then we focus on depth a la Lankinen, Lindgren and the like.

But saddling $6M John Gibson and our faith at the expense of other needs and our modest account seems like the actions of a GM with blinders on.
 
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Making his potential ahead of Campbell's: Untrue. Campbell pre-draft was as hyped - and with reason - as any goalie in living memory. If you say Gibson's potential is ahead of Campbell's, but factually, statistically lesser than Campbell's performance, that doesn't reconcile in the least.

If you're gauging potential, you're testing against trends. One goalie has been trending downwards and the other the opposite way. You can discount that as not having proven anything but in a contest of the better goalie, Campbell for the last two seasons has been a better goalie than Gibson.

You mention a backup all of his life. Correct: Behind the most underrated goalie of his era in Kari Lehtonen and then an all-world two time Stanley Cup champion in Jonathan Quick.

It's your opinion that Gibson's worst is as good as Campbell's best, but the facts don't echo your preference. So if potential is being reached then by all means side with Gibson if that's your strong preference, but be sure not to forget Jack Campbell's pre-draft consideration and the goalies he's been parked behind before finally getting his chance in Toronto.

Spend assets? Darcy Kuemper is a game up on Vasilevskiy. He's been mentioned as a possible target to replace Campbell. But if you listen to the commentary across the board the common denominator as to why we're seeing Tampa and Colorado in the Finals comes down to team depth; bottom six and bottom pairing d-men lending superior support for their club against thinner squads.

If you have as you note ("So regardless...") an equivalency of goaltending talent to choose from then the importance of spending assets to get what's otherwise also free seems misguided WHEN...you also have needs elsewhere.

So we have two choices given our cap situation and asset cache with respect to goaltender acquisition:

(1) Shift our LIMITED assets to acquire an equivalent goalie and possibly compromise on depth acquisition in the event there isn't a better goalie on the market available for the same assets.

(2) Acquire the equivalent goalie on the free market at no asset cost and focus our LIMITED assets to build team depth.

To my mind, our team depth is the primary focus for using assets given that it is unlikely Oettinger or Sorokin is available for trade. On the free market if we can get Campbell or Husso at around $4M, that's our move. Then we focus on depth a la Lankinen, Lindgren and the like.

But saddling $6M John Gibson and our faith at the expense of other needs and our modest account seems like the actions of a GM with blinders on.
The fact you are even trying to imply Campbell is better or just as good as Gibson is laughable and tells me everything I need to know. If a team has a top ten goalie or even a goalie capable of winning a Stanley Cup they aren't going to trade that away. So the only goalies going to be available are the same caliber goalie as Campbell.

You think Colorado isn't going to sign Kuemper when they just made it to the finals and might win the cup? lol With the goalies available either by free agency or who's rumored to be open to be traded. Gibson is hands down the best option if your serious about trying to win.

So your answer is to sign another Campbell basically at $1M cheaper and then what? wait five years or longer until he becomes a goalie that can win you a Stanley Cup? And that's if he even hits that potential. And then complain how we need better goaltending every time we get eliminated from the playoffs? Crazy is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
 
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The fact you are even trying to imply Campbell is better or just as good as Gibson is laughable and tells me everything I need to know. If a team has a top ten goalie or even a goalie capable of winning a Stanley Cup they aren't going to trade that away. So the only goalies going to be available are the same caliber goalie as Campbell.

You think Colorado isn't going to sign Kuemper when they just made it to the finals and might win the cup? lol With the goalies available either by free agency or who's rumored to be open to be traded. Gibson is hands down the best option if your serious about trying to win.

So your answer is to sign another Campbell basically at $1M cheaper and then what? wait five years or longer until he becomes a goalie that can win you a Stanley Cup? And that's if he even hits that potential. And then complain how we need better goaltending every time we get eliminated from the playoffs? Crazy is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Why John Gibson and not say...Matt Murray? Your argument is, despite consistently poor performance, our best option is to move assets for a $6M goalie who has - for three seasons - played sub par hockey.

Then why not Matt Murray? He's actually won a couple of Cups. In the vein of your claim, Matt Murray is the better faith based option to reclaim his form isn't he?

And correction, I'm not implying Campbell is the better goalie, I'm hardly being vague about it. Campbell is the better goalie; And the fact that you're not addressing the specifics of why I state he is the better performance option never mind the better asset management, tells me that you have an implicit prejudice against Campbell.

I know that top tier goalies aren't going to be available. I've REPEATED that. I'm open to investigating the possibility, but I've repeatedly stated that it's an unlikely scenario. What is likely is competing in the free market for a replacement.

As for Kuemper returning to Colorado - who knows? Francouz has been good. At this point, Campbell might be an Avalance by next season, who knows? I don't and you don't.

My answer is available to quote. We start from the bottom up while trying to sign Campbell or Husso to a reasonable hit. We hire the best goaltending coaches available. We saturate our 1b/Marlies options with Lankinen and Lindgren type signings while beginning THIS draft to get the best G prospect available, even in this weak draft.

The definition of insanity is predicated on choice. If we don't have great choices to make within a specific position, we do the best right now with what we can. And what Toronto can do is leverage it's dollars in coaching and 1b depth. Perhaps it's a stop gap until the deadline when a rental is available for less than a free agent market signing, but it's consistent, foundational small steps rather than...mortgaging our future that's imminent and without the requisite depth contending teams need.

Mortgaging the future on stop gaps HAS been our insanity defining m.o. Maximixing smaller moves in what's available to us while addressing team depth might be the only path we have. IF it is, it's crazy to spend more on the same product when you can buy it for less.

That's your proposal. Apologies, but John Gibson isn't our Hail Mary. If he is, then why is Matt Murray not more so according to your stated standard?
 
I need to ask the question. Now that we know that Dubas plans on coming back with the same team, will that not be the same for the goalie tandem?

Goalies for the 22-23 season:

Campbell
Mrazek

Let's say Dubas feels that Mrazek can bounce back and that Campbell can be signed at a reasonable cap hit?

:leafs
He can't afford 8m on goaltending or he wants to allocate less. It will be on or the other or none and none is my guess.
 
He can't afford 8m on goaltending or he wants to allocate less. It will be on or the other or none and none is my guess.
Vegas, Montreal, Florida, Los Angeles, and Anaheim all had goalies totally close to 8 million ot more recently. It happens.
 
Vegas, Montreal, Florida, Los Angeles, and Anaheim all had goalies totally close to 8 million ot more recently. It happens.
Did they have 4 forwards making half the cap. Leafs had 5.45m in starters last year. They can go to 8 if they can free up 2.55m but my guess is that is not the way they want to go.
 
Why John Gibson and not say...Matt Murray? Your argument is, despite consistently poor performance, our best option is to move assets for a $6M goalie who has - for three seasons - played sub par hockey.

Then why not Matt Murray? He's actually won a couple of Cups. In the vein of your claim, Matt Murray is the better faith based option to reclaim his form isn't he?

And correction, I'm not implying Campbell is the better goalie, I'm hardly being vague about it. Campbell is the better goalie; And the fact that you're not addressing the specifics of why I state he is the better performance option never mind the better asset management, tells me that you have an implicit prejudice against Campbell.

I know that top tier goalies aren't going to be available. I've REPEATED that. I'm open to investigating the possibility, but I've repeatedly stated that it's an unlikely scenario. What is likely is competing in the free market for a replacement.

As for Kuemper returning to Colorado - who knows? Francouz has been good. At this point, Campbell might be an Avalance by next season, who knows? I don't and you don't.

My answer is available to quote. We start from the bottom up while trying to sign Campbell or Husso to a reasonable hit. We hire the best goaltending coaches available. We saturate our 1b/Marlies options with Lankinen and Lindgren type signings while beginning THIS draft to get the best G prospect available, even in this weak draft.

The definition of insanity is predicated on choice. If we don't have great choices to make within a specific position, we do the best right now with what we can. And what Toronto can do is leverage it's dollars in coaching and 1b depth. Perhaps it's a stop gap until the deadline when a rental is available for less than a free agent market signing, but it's consistent, foundational small steps rather than...mortgaging our future that's imminent and without the requisite depth contending teams need.

Mortgaging the future on stop gaps HAS been our insanity defining m.o. Maximixing smaller moves in what's available to us while addressing team depth might be the only path we have. IF it is, it's crazy to spend more on the same product when you can buy it for less.

That's your proposal. Apologies, but John Gibson isn't our Hail Mary. If he is, then why is Matt Murray not more so according to your stated standard?
Simple answer to the question.... Because Murray will never play because he will be injured all the time...

So long story short... you don't want to take a chance on Gibson because he might not turn out good for us.
But you want to take a chance on Husso who might not turn out good for us?

Husso has proved nothing so far aside from the fact he's as good as Campbell... Taking a chance on him is the same as taking a chance on Gibson... At least with Gibson you know he's been an elite goalie and can maybe get back to that... With Husso you might just have another Campbell and more wasted years.
 
And correction, I'm not implying Campbell is the better goalie, I'm hardly being vague about it. Campbell is the better goalie; And the fact that you're not addressing the specifics of why I state he is the better performance option never mind the better asset management, tells me that you have an implicit prejudice against Campbell.
Gibson has five 50+ game seasons under his belt, many with elite numbers, on a weak team and has maintained relatively strong brand value throughout his career. Only 28 years old.

Campbell has a few backup seasons and one 49 game season during which he he went sub .900 for several months and cratered to the point where he had to take a break behind a fairly good D corps. Sub .900 in the playoffs. He's 30 now.

I'm not a goalie expert - very difficult to separate goaltening from team D - but on the surface Gibson seems a safer option for a serious contender looking for stability through an extended cup window.

Still a gamble, but we have to take one now that we foolishly ran Freddy out of town.
 
He can't afford 8m on goaltending or he wants to allocate less. It will be on or the other or none and none is my guess.
Vegas, Montreal, Florida, Los Angeles, and Anaheim all had goalies totaling close to 8 million recently. It happens.

:leafs
 
Gibson has five 50+ game seasons under his belt, many with elite numbers, on a weak team and has maintained relatively strong brand value throughout his career. Only 28 years old.

Campbell has a few backup seasons and one 49 game season during which he he went sub .900 for several months and cratered to the point where he had to take a break behind a fairly good D corps. Sub .900 in the playoffs. He's 30 now.

I'm not a goalie expert - very difficult to separate goaltening from team D - but on the surface Gibson seems a safer option for a serious contender looking for stability through an extended cup window.

Still a gamble, but we have to take one now that we foolishly ran Freddy out of town.

Only two seasons of 50+ games and a Sv% greater than 0.920 In years where the Ducks were either 1st or 2nd in the division where they made the playoffs.

As the team has sunk, so have his numbers.
 
Dubas went all in on Mrazek with a 3 year $11.4 mil contract for #3.8 mi. AAV last year and called him his 1B.

What makes people think that Dubas' plan is NOT Mrazek as his #1 and then for the limited cap space bring in a low rent backup for Campbell's former $1.65 mil?

You don't hand someone $11+ million dollars for nothing.
 
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Dubas went all in on Mrazek with a 3 year $11.4 mil contract for #3.8 mi. AAV last year and called him his 1B.

What makes people think that Dubas' plan is NOT Mrazek as his #1 and then for the limited cap space bring in a low rent backup for Campbell's former $1.65 mil?

You don't hand someone $11+ million dollars for nothing.
Unless you are Dubas.
 
B1E7C8F7-526F-4951-97D9-E2A70FD89DFC.png



This gives 4.7 million to fill out 2 forward spots.
With Campbell at 5 And Mrazek.

I’m not suggesting this is likely. It seems like dubas wants to move on. From both goalies. But we could easily take on a 5 million goalie and keep mrazek if we absolutely had to.

If we got rid of both we would have 13 million to spend on 2 forwards and 2 goalies.

Leaf cap somehow is actually better than a lot
 
Dubas went all in on Mrazek with a 3 year $11.4 mil contract for #3.8 mi. AAV last year and called him his 1B.

What makes people think that Dubas' plan is NOT Mrazek as his #1 and then for the limited cap space bring in a low rent backup for Campbell's former $1.65 mil?

You don't hand someone $11+ million dollars for nothing.


How are you a mod of this website asking questions like that? If you watched this team, but more specifically Mrazek you'd know the answer.

Mrazek is a non option
 
How are you a mod of this website asking questions like that? If you watched this team, but more specifically Mrazek you'd know the answer.

Mrazek is a non option
I didn't sign Mrazek so don't blame me.

Maybe your anger and disappointment with that signing is misdirected?

He is still an active signed member of the Leafs, so asking what is the plan seems like a normal question to ask.

What do you think magically happens with the 2 years at $3.8 mil Mrazek contract if you know the answer?

Campbell is a UFA and only made $1.65 mil so replacing him at that cap hit, doesn't leave a lot of options available.
 
Dubas went all in on Mrazek with a 3 year $11.4 mil contract for #3.8 mi. AAV last year and called him his 1B.

What makes people think that Dubas' plan is NOT Mrazek as his #1 and then for the limited cap space bring in a low rent backup for Campbell's former $1.65 mil?

You don't hand someone $11+ million dollars for nothing.

Plans change.
 
How are you a mod of this website asking questions like that? If you watched this team, but more specifically Mrazek you'd know the answer.

Mrazek is a non option

I know you don't like Mess but that is kinda silly. Mess has a valid point.

Mrazek has been a serviceable goalie during his carrier. If we consider that the medical staff has deemed him healthy and ready to go at the beginning of the season no reason to think he can't be a good goalie for the Leafs.

Personally I'm not sold on him being a #1, more of a 1B. Time will tell I guess.
 
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I didn't sign Mrazek so don't blame me.

Maybe you anger and disappointment with that signing is misdirected?

He is still an active signed member of the Leafs.

What do you think magically happens with the 2 years at $3.8 mil Mrazek contract if you know the answer?

Trade, buyout, LTIR because he's played 32 games combined in the last 2 years, you can't convince me he's healthy and even if he was he's got a groin made a melted cheese it's only a matter of time before he's hurt again.

He's gone one way or another.

If they can't trade him Robidas island awaits
 
I know you don't like Mess but that is kinda silly. Mess has a valid point.

Mrazek has been a serviceable goalie during his carrier. If we consider that the medical staff has deemed him healthy and ready to go at the beginning of the season no reason to think he can't be a good goalie for the Leafs.

Personally I'm not sold on him being a #1, more of a 1B. Time will tell I guess.

It doesn't have anything to do with Mess, I don't know Mess, Mess might be the nicest, guy in the world, hell I don't even know that Mess is a guy.

It has to do with asking ridiculous questions that only take about 3.5 seconds to know the answer to.

Asking how we know Mrazek won't be #1 is ridiculous
 
Only two seasons of 50+ games and a Sv% greater than 0.920 In years where the Ducks were either 1st or 2nd in the division where they made the playoffs.

As the team has sunk, so have his numbers.
So you're saying if he plays in a team line the Leafs that will be to 3 in their division we should expect .920sv% from him? I agree. There is no reason he can't bounce back. He's 28 and to your point been playing on a team that for the last 3 years has been bad.
 
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It doesn't have anything to do with Mess, I don't know Mess, Mess might be the nicest, guy in the world, hell I don't even know that Mess is a guy.

It has to do with asking ridiculous questions that only take about 3.5 seconds to know the answer to.

Asking how we know Mrazek won't be #1 is ridiculous

Odds are low Mrazek is not moved but there is a small chance that Mrazek is part of a tandem with a goalie making up to $3m IMO if Leafs think he can come back or they can't find a taker for a reasonable sweetener or he is healthy enough not to qualify for Robidas island.

Dubas has definitely got some fancy foot moves to make soon when it comes to his goaltending situation. Goaltending has been his kryptonite since he took over from Lou. Here we are into year 5 with Kyle in charge and our goaltending situation is the worst it has been since Shanny took over. Dubas needs to get this right or it will probably be 7 consecutive first round exits.
 

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