I have serious concerns for next year (2023-24)

[All Mod Cons]

When 1/2 a teams Salary Cap is locked up in just 4 forwards and 3 X $11 mil players have full NMC that can't and wont go anywhere leaving only Nylander as a potential tradeable player of that core.. If you add Morgan Rielly he next highest paid player $7.5 mil AAV with a full NMC as well for the next 4 years that =$58 mil of an $83.5 mil cap = Approximately 70% of your team locked in stone.

Treliving is left with 30% remaining cap space and 15 players outside those 5 core above to put him mark in the team. Options are limited because cap space is limited.

Exactly. There are not many pieces that can be easily moved around. And the guys making all the money - those trades i imagine take longer than a few weeks to concoct.

Added to that a dearth of draft picks and slim pickings for prospects, unless you have a fetish for undersized guys who look good in junior but struggle to translate to the big leagues, and you're left with few options to make meaningful change.

Basically, throw whatever money you have left at UFAs and that'll be it for the year until the TDL.

 

[ULF_55]

Exactly. There are not many pieces that can be easily moved around. And the guys making all the money - those trades i imagine take longer than a few weeks to concoct.

Added to that a dearth of draft picks and slim pickings for prospects, unless you have a fetish for undersized guys who look good in junior but struggle to translate to the big leagues, and you're left with few options to make meaningful change.

Basically, throw whatever money you have left at UFAs and that'll be it for the year until the TDL.

Coaches don't have NMC's.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

Im honestly excited for this new season.

Keefe isn’t sitting pretty with Dubas covering his arse anymore. Got 2 new head coaches that will replace him in a second.

So an edgey Keefe that won’t bend to the players anymore… I like it.

We have signature tough guys Reaves, tuzi, Domi…

So our core 4 can stop peeing their pants when things start to hurt.

Do I think Marner should be traded? Yes…

I want Nylander signed and Matthews.

With that being said, I’ll take Nylander signed and take assets we get in return from Matthews to build a different team.

No matter what… core 4 or not.
Things are different.

I’m excited LOL

 

[Lightsol]

I'm absolutely positive there's a section of this fanbase that misses the JFJ/Burke/Nonis "not even close to making the playoffs" era of Leafs hockey because then they could spend every second of the season complaining about how bad the team was...

 

[Aashir]

I doubt we miss the playoffs. Matthews had a terrible year, we still comfortably finished 2nd. We added more offence, so bare minimum we will score our way into the playoffs

Buffalo is missing any semblance of goaltending

Tampa’s got clear depth issues

Boston is due for heavy regression with 1 and 2C gone

Florida got better all around so let’s highball them and say they are for sure better

Montreal is ass, still in the rebuild phase

Ottawa could be good, but they also have shaky depth and their goaltending is worrying.

Detroit barely improved a mediocre team, i doubt they go from a 80 point team, though they were in a playoff spot by game like 50, but I can’t see them getting 105+

At worst, 1 better, 3 “battling” with us. At worst we are 4th, which is most likely a wildcard

3+ of those teams need 100 points to push us out of a playoff spot, then the metro also needs to be solid as well

We at worst should be a 100 point team, I’m not sweating the regular season, don’t get me started on the playoffs though

 

[Eternal Leaf]

I'm absolutely positive there's a section of this fanbase that misses the JFJ/Burke/Nonis "not even close to making the playoffs" era of Leafs hockey because then they could spend every second of the season complaining about how bad the team was...

That's fair but saying 'It could be worse' is not a championship mindset.

Losing early in the playoffs for half a decade is brutal too.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

This is where we are at.

The fans are becoming apathetic. They see a lack of accountability within the organization. Resignation has once again settled in as a result.

That feeling of "here comes another 82 meaningless games".

Another year of reading the same old articles about how great a regular season team the Leafs are. Another year of fans regurgitating the same tired comments about how the playoffs are all that matter. Another year of cheering for the same core group of losers that can't get the job done.

This isn't a slam against the players either.

Ownership has fostered an environment where job security is guaranteed regardless of performance. Working for the Leafs is a dream opportunity. If ML$E hired me the first thing I'd do is start playing video games and downloading porn.

The second thing I'd do is get promoted.

 

[DarkKnight]

I think they cakewalk into the playoffs.

 

[francis246]

I think this is the season we finally see the leafs play with desperation. I think they all know change will follow.

But Leafs are gonna make the playoffs. I can also see a potential division win. IMO team is faster, younger, better skating than last year.

 

[saltming]

i guess for some it is....

likely participation award recipients. I'll take a wildcard spot if that means we can get somewhere in the playoffs.

How do you get a wildcard spot? Losing or winning regular season games?
As stated to you, every fan wants playoff success and a cup, but you need a good season to get there and that's all that's being said

 

[francis246]

This is where we are at.

The fans are becoming apathetic. They see a lack of accountability within the organization. Resignation has once again settled in as a result.

That feeling of "here comes another 82 meaningless games".

Another year of reading the same old articles about how great a regular season team the Leafs are. Another year of fans regurgitating the same tired comments about how the playoffs are all that matter. Another year of cheering for the same core group of losers that can't get the job done.

This isn't a slam against the players either.

Ownership has fostered an environment where job security is guaranteed regardless of performance. Working for the Leafs is a dream opportunity. If ML$E hired me the first thing I'd do is start playing video games and downloading porn.

The second thing I'd do is get promoted.

I don’t feel the apathy for the first time in a while. I feel like games matter this year because the division is wide open.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I don’t feel the apathy for the first time in a while. I feel like games matter this year because the division is wide open.

Thanks for the response.

We always have to look for regular season accomplishments for this team. Because postseason success there has been none. Even still, what regular season success they have achieved has been limited to a few more points than normal at the end of the year.

No division titles.
No conference titles.
No presidents trophies.

It would be nice to see them rewarded for their regular season accomplishments I guess.

But for a team with a recent postseason history as sordid as this one's, it's almost reached the point of cup or bust.

Go Leafs Go.

 

[ACC1224]

I have no concerns for next season.

 

[Nylanderthal]

The previous GM has made it very hard to make impactful changes. Current management don't have much they can really work with.

The old GM just made a massively impactful move for his new team with a roster that has a lot more restrictions and limitations than the one he left with a lot of flexibility built in. TFYM?

 

[Sypher04]

I doubt we miss the playoffs. Matthews had a terrible year, we still comfortably finished 2nd. We added more offence, so bare minimum we will score our way into the playoffs

Calling Matthews down year terrible is quite an exaggeration but I agree with the general point.

Losing early in the playoffs for half a decade is brutal too.

I don’t think you’re gonna find anyone here who disagrees with that.

But Leafs are gonna make the playoffs. I can also see a potential division win. IMO team is faster, younger, better skating than last year.

As much as I thought Dubas did a good job at the trade deadline last season, our speed took a very noticeable hit.

 

[GrizzGreen]

ok

 

[TakeTheBody]

The Leafs need to have the heart of Maple Leaf Mel.

 

[Torontonian]

I don't like moves Treliving has made so far

I don't like MM is still on the team, he should have been traded

I don't like AM still doesn't have a contact (I really don't like how AM is so adverse to long term contracts)

I don't like the defense AT ALL

I'd say my biggest concern is this team is going to be too complacent and I think there is a real chance Toronto might actually miss the playoffs

I have never been this low on the team, at least when Toronto was tanking we could look forward to the future, what do we have to look forward to now? Toronto hasn't done ANYTHING with this core, why should I think this year will be any different?

1. Treliving moves have been fine, the worst move he made was signing a 4th line guy to term, which can be buried in the AHL, all we have heard past 3 years is team doesn't have enough snarl, I'd say adding Bert/Domi/Reaves gives them that.

2. Mitch Marner is a top 5 winger in the NHL, extremely hard to trade him and win the deal, you're always giving up the the best player in the deal.

3. Not concerned about 34 not signing yet, seems like both he and the team want it done before the season starts to avoid the circus that comes with it. More concerned Willy will be walking for nothing.

4. Defense gripe is fair they struggled last year in the playoffs, and didn't really improve it. Klingberg is a risk, and hopefully can add to moving the puck faster from our end to the forwards.

This team this year, compared to last years team on opening day is a lot better, that seems pretty obvious. The team we had after the trade deadline was better, time will tell what we look like after the TDL.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Wilcard and deep playoff runs vs regular season success and no playoff success is a false dichotomy.

Regular season success implies that your team is high quality and has a legitimate chance to challenge for a championship. When you don't, there's the belief that you need to solve for a relatively small piece of the equation to win the whole thing. No guarantee you figure it out.

A mid tier team that goes on deeper runs sounds okay on the surface, but what holds a team back from being good in the regular season will also catch up with them the deeper they go in the playoffs. Canadiens in 2021, Panthers in 2023 are good examples of subpar regular season teams that go on long runs by run out of gas.

When you keep excelling in the regular season but fall miserably short of challenging for the championship in the playoffs year after year after year, that suggests the team is built for the regular season, but not for the playoffs.

Sometimes you flip a coin five times, and it comes up heads every time.

It doesn't mean tails is less likely than heads, or the coin is bad, or tails is bad and can never occur.

That's true, unless there's something wrong with the coin.

That's not true, that path of success looks like this:

Regular Season > R1 > R2 > R3 > R4

Losing in R3 is more successful than losing in R1. Whether you come 3rd or 9th in the regular season is something, but in the grand scheme of things, not particularly that important as both teams advance to R1.

This is further exacerbated by the fact that players can't play at 100% through the regular season. It's only in the playoffs that you get to see which teams are the best. You cant tell just how fast Usain Bolt is in the first heat.

Exactly, very well put. I'd trade 1st overall for 16th if it meant going further in the playoffs. I think some people have never experienced how exhilarating a deep playoff run can be, or if they have it was so long ago that they've forgotten.

I think they cakewalk into the playoffs.

I do too. It's what comes after that I just can't be too optimistic about anymore.

 

[Sypher04]

Exactly, very well put. I'd trade 1st overall for 16th if it meant going further in the playoffs. I think some people have never experienced how exhilarating a deep playoff run can be, or if they have it was so long ago that they've forgotten.

His comments in reply to me weren’t wrong, they just weren’t arguing against anything that I actually said. I never claimed there’s no difference between losing in the regular season, vs round 1 or 2, 3, 4 etc.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I don't like moves Treliving has made so far

I don't like MM is still on the team, he should have been traded

I don't like AM still doesn't have a contact (I really don't like how AM is so adverse to long term contracts)

I don't like the defense AT ALL

I'd say my biggest concern is this team is going to be too complacent and I think there is a real chance Toronto might actually miss the playoffs

I have never been this low on the team, at least when Toronto was tanking we could look forward to the future, what do we have to look forward to now? Toronto hasn't done ANYTHING with this core, why should I think this year will be any different?

Your concern is ridiculous, short of season and/or career ending injury there is NO chance they miss the playoffs

 

[Stephen]

When you keep excelling in the regular season but fall miserably short of challenging for the championship in the playoffs year after year after year, that suggests the team is built for the regular season, but not for the playoffs.

Yeah I agree with you, but it's still worth remembering that there's still a lot of value in regular season success - even though we are a little bit used to it - and the playoff disappointment that usually comes after it.

 

[Stephen]

Sometimes you flip a coin five times, and it comes up heads every time.

It doesn't mean tails is less likely than heads, or the coin is bad, or tails is bad and can never occur.

We have a good team, we could use another really good defenceman, but this is a team that will have a chance to win every year they're together - that is a good thing.

To a point this is true, the game is one of bounces here and there that add up over time.

But the whole language of playing that series over 1000x times, we win 999x, flipping a coin, betting on... all that Dubas probability, simulation talk needs to get thrown out the window. Nobody has 1000x do overs. Each season is not a rehearsal...

This team has paid a heavy price not winning because the leadership at the top didn't have the experience to value things like size on defense, strong goaltending, veteran leadership and team chemistry can't be grafted onto a team late in season.

So let's hope the new regime has a better sense of what kind of meaningful team building is necessary to give us the real world, 1 chance to win each game, each series.

 

[ACC1224]

The whole regular season is meaningless is one of the dumber sentiments repeated here daily. Do people really believe this is some special insight they have. Look forward to daily reminders all season. It’s too much to expect that these people would just go away until the spring.

 

[justashadowof]

Well, if Leafs' fans start treating regular season hockey as totally samey and clock-punchy, the re-sale ticket market rates may drop a little for the hoi-poloi.