I have serious concerns for next year (2023-24)

[JKG33]

Obviously everyone wants to make real playoff noise, to win, but acting like regular season success isn’t also important is ridiculous.

Which season do you think Panthers fans are more proud of? The presidents trophy win followed up by a Leafs-like playoff failure or sneaking into the playoffs as an 8 seed and rolling into the SCF?

 

[TopG]

They'll be a top 5ish team but don't expect much come playoff time. It'll be more of the same old

 

[andora]

IIRC, someone shared a link showing Marner is worth 16 million.

Was it written on a napkin

Jesus

 

[Gary Nylund]

On paper they're easily a top 5, if not top 3 team.

I have zero doubts they have a very good regular season, I have serious doubts they play for the cup in June.

100% this.

Which season do you think Panthers fans are more proud of? The presidents trophy win followed up by a Leafs-like playoff failure or sneaking into the playoffs as an 8 seed and rolling into the SCF?

I can't imagine anyone would prefer regular season success to playoff success myself, I guess when you get an answer then we'll see.

Was it written on a napkin

Jesus

I think it came from one of those sites behind a paywall where they have fancy algos do spit out fancy numbers. Hard to believe there are people who take those numbers seriously but they do exist.

 

[andora]

100% this.


I can't imagine anyone would prefer regular season success to playoff success myself, I guess when you get an answer then we'll see.


I think it came from one of those sites behind a paywall where they have fancy algos do spit out fancy numbers. Hard to believe there are people who take those numbers seriously but they do exist.

I shouldnt make fun of the napkin.. i used to do some of my best work on scrap pieces and once a piece of paper towel

But yeah.. spin baby spin

 

[Coaches Coroner]

My main concern is still the fanbase. This thread is no exception. So many brain geniuses that think if we simply get rid of Marner and/or Matthews, we will suddenly be much better in the playoffs. Very unserious people.

 

[IPS]

My main concern is still the fanbase. This thread is no exception. So many brain geniuses that think if we simply get rid of Marner and/or Matthews, we will suddenly be much better in the playoffs. Very unserious people.

The fans are running the team again?

IIRC, someone shared a link showing Marner is worth 16 million.

Paul making his rounds on twitter again?

 

[Fogelhund]

Which season do you think Panthers fans are more proud of? The presidents trophy win followed up by a Leafs-like playoff failure or sneaking into the playoffs as an 8 seed and rolling into the SCF?

Panthers fans will be more proud of rolling into the SCF.

Of course, that's a pretty rare occurrence.

Over a 21 year period, from 1994 to 2015, a division champion has made it to the Stanley Cup Finals, every year but three (2012, 2014, 2015), winning 15 of 21 times.

Success in post season, mostly follows success in the regular season. Of course, our guys haven't figured it out, if they ever do.

 

[Gary Nylund]

My main concern is still the fanbase. This thread is no exception. So many brain geniuses that think if we simply get rid of Marner and/or Matthews, we will suddenly be much better in the playoffs. Very unserious people.

If that's on the top of your list of worries, that's a happy life.

As for the rest of it, nice strawman.

 

[Sypher04]

Which season do you think Panthers fans are more proud of? The presidents trophy win followed up by a Leafs-like playoff failure or sneaking into the playoffs as an 8 seed and rolling into the SCF?

Doesn’t really have anything to do with what I said tbh. Outliers don’t undo what is generally true, and no one thinks that playoff and regular season success matters equally.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

If that's on the top of your list of worries, that's a happy life.

As for the rest of it, nice strawman.

The last sentence is literally from a post in this thread, so it's not a strawman...if anything about the Leafs and/or that posted about on here is anywhere near anyone's list of real life worries, that's a happy life. You assuming the fans are anywhere near mine (rather than as relative to the rest of this thread/the Leafs) is closer to strawman territory than what I posted, funny enough. I'm sure that will be lost on you though lol.

 

[Notsince67]

That person is wrong.

I love Marner but no he's not

Evolving hockey has a current valuation of 12.33 MM for 8 yrs.
Not sure what went into it.
If the cap goes up to 92mm as is projected and this valuation doesn't project that and Marner gets better, I could see it when his contract is up.
Not sure why anyone gives a shit because he has 2 years left on his contract and he has a NMC

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Evolving hockey has a current valuation of 12.33 MM for 8 yrs.
Not sure what went into it.
If the cap goes up to 92mm as is projected and this valuation doesn't project that and Marner gets better, I could see it when his contract is up.
Not sure why anyone gives a shit because he has 2 years left on his contract and he has a NMC

The person I responded to said 16 million.

I tend to agree with evolving hocey, I'd have him around 12 million

 

[Notsince67]

My main concern is still the fanbase. This thread is no exception. So many brain geniuses that think if we simply get rid of Marner and/or Matthews, we will suddenly be much better in the playoffs. Very unserious people.

This. These are the heuristics of children.
The issues raised such as softness and greed that somehow overcome the considerable skill these players bring is the pinnacle of mediocre thinking.

 

[Fogelhund]

Evolving hockey has a current valuation of 12.33 MM for 8 yrs.
Not sure what went into it.
If the cap goes up to 92mm as is projected and this valuation doesn't project that and Marner gets better, I could see it when his contract is up.
Not sure why anyone gives a shit because he has 2 years left on his contract and he has a NMC

They compare all contracts, and players stats, to give their projections. It's basically a math derived formula, that spits out expectations.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The last sentence is literally from a post in this thread, so it's not a strawman...if anything about the Leafs and/or that posted about on here is anywhere near anyone's list of real life worries, that's a happy life. You assuming the fans are anywhere near mine (rather than as relative to the rest of this thread/the Leafs) is closer to strawman territory than what I posted, funny enough. I'm sure that will be lost on you though lol.

The first bolded - I doubt that but go ahead, quote the post and show me I'm wrong.

The second bolded - you're pretty much repeating what I said so Ok I guess.

The last sentence is pretty muddled, not sure what you're trying to say there so in that sense, it is indeed "lost on me".

 

[Gary Nylund]

This. These are the heuristics of children.
The issues raised such as softness and greed that somehow overcome the considerable skill these players bring is the pinnacle of mediocre thinking.

I think we all agree that the players are skilled, but most of us want to see the team win in the playoffs. Is winning something that you think only children should care about?

 

[Notsince67]

They compare all contracts, and players stats, to give their projections. It's basically a math derived formula, that spits out expectations.

Sure but whether Cap projections are in is unclear

 

[Racer88]

Exactly, and we have two players on $11M contracts that aren't worth the contracts, and we should be moving one if not both, but can't.

100% agree

 

[Notsince67]

I think we all agree that the players are skilled, but most of us want to see the team win in the playoffs. Is winning something that you think only children should care about?

Children want a lot of good things.
My kids once thought that you only needed to go to the bank to get money. Not faulting the desire for money but their strategy required a bit more than they could understand at the time.

 

[Racer88]

On paper they're easily a top 5, if not top 3 team.

I have zero doubts they have a very good regular season, I have serious doubts they play for the cup in June.

yup

 

[Racer88]

My main concern is still the fanbase. This thread is no exception. So many brain geniuses that think if we simply get rid of Marner and/or Matthews, we will suddenly be much better in the playoffs. Very unserious people.

I doubt many think it’s that simple. I’m sure many realize it would also involve acquiring the proper players to achieve success.
My concern is the fan base that thinks we should just keep running back the same thing for and 8th year or maybe a 9th or 10. They are the unserious people.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Evolving hockey has a current valuation of 12.33 MM for 8 yrs.
Not sure what went into it.
If the cap goes up to 92mm as is projected and this valuation doesn't project that and Marner gets better, I could see it when his contract is up.
Not sure why anyone gives a shit because he has 2 years left on his contract and he has a NMC

Interesting. I guess I would say that with the cap going up that much, considering that contracts mostly seem to based on regular season performance (so mostly ignoring Marner's disappointing playoff performances), and the fact that Marner has a couple of 1st all-star team selections on his resume, 12.33 for 8 years seems like a pretty decent estimate of what he's worth.

I would also say that it screams very loudly that his last contract for almost 90% of those dollars, but only a 6 year term and with a resume that at the time was obviously much less impressive than it is today was a MASSIVE overpayment.

Children want a lot of good things.
My kids once thought that you only needed to go to the bank to get money. Not faulting the desire for money but their strategy required a bit more than they could understand at the time.

When you deflect and obfuscate instead of answering a simple question, that's an answer in itself. Cheers.

 

[JKG33]

Panthers fans will be more proud of rolling into the SCF.

Of course, that's a pretty rare occurrence.

Over a 21 year period, from 1994 to 2015, a division champion has made it to the Stanley Cup Finals, every year but three (2012, 2014, 2015), winning 15 of 21 times.

Success in post season, mostly follows success in the regular season. Of course, our guys haven't figured it out, if they ever do.

Who's the last presidents trophy winner to win the cup? Chicago?

If anything, presidents trophy winners seem to fail even harder in the playoffs. And if we're hyping this team up to be a presidents trophy winner...

 

[JKG33]

My main concern is still the fanbase. This thread is no exception. So many brain geniuses that think if we simply get rid of Marner and/or Matthews, we will suddenly be much better in the playoffs. Very unserious people.

I don't think anybody is seriously saying a simple subtraction of the entitled 4 directly equals playoff success.

However it's become painfully obvious they can't get it done where it counts. Trading them and rebuilding, this time around players who dont have character issues, is the step towards playoff success.

Doesn’t really have anything to do with what I said tbh. Outliers don’t undo what is generally true, and no one thinks that playoff and regular season success matters equally.

I mean it kind of does. Regular season success only matters to middle of the road teams nearing the end of a rebuild. No team with cup aspirations gives a shit about regular season performance as long as they're among the 16 that make the playoffs