Hypothetical - does McDavid win the Conn Smythe even if Oilers lose the cup? Assuming he has an above average finals

[Dr Pepper]

5-14-6-1

Is that a locker combination, or.....?

 

[Zybalto]

McDavid or Bob are the most obvious choices. Game 1 was straight up stolen by goaltending.

Oddly enough, depth players and goaltending are playing the biggest role in peoples perceptions.

Take a guy like Barkov who many are mentioning and compare him to McDavid.



McDavid:

All situations: 32 points in 20 games
5v5 points: 15 points in 20 games:
(these both lead all players)

5v5:
Goals for/60: 3.54
Goals against:/60: 2.16
Differential % with REL: 62.11 (+23.56)

The rest of the Oilers team not playing with McDavid:
Goals for/60: 1.70
Goals against:/60: 2.71
Differential %: 38.55

Oilers Goaltending: 89.13



Barkov:

All situations: 19 points in 19 games
5v5 points: 8 points in 19 games:

5v5:
Goals for/60: 2.36
Goals against:/60: 1.77
Differential with REL: 57.13 (-2.66)

The rest of the Panthers team not playing with Barkov:
Goals for/60: 2.29
Goals against:/60: 1.54
Differential: 59.79

Panthers Goaltending: 91.43


Not saying Barkov isnt having a great playoffs but McDavid is literally carrying a sad sack team as far as he can here. Barkov is a great player getting great support and great goaltending and McDavid is the best player in the playoffs getting neither.

 

[BKarchitect]

It was a fine question at the start of the series, if one that was never going to happen.

Two games in? Not a chance.

 

[Video Nasty]

For the people who only value peak - the Bobby Orr crowd - this ought to be true.

For people who emphasize total career value, he's not even close to top 5 at the moment.

What’s behind your recent vendetta against Orr?

As for the topic, two games in, no one has to worry about McDavid winning the Conn Smythe in a losing effort.

 

[Montreal Shadow]

McDavid or Bob are the most obvious choices. Game 1 was straight up stolen by goaltending.

Oddly enough, depth players and goaltending are playing the biggest role in peoples perceptions.

Take a guy like Barkov who many are mentioning and compare him to McDavid.



McDavid:

All situations: 32 points in 20 games
5v5 points: 15 points in 20 games:
(these both lead all players)

5v5:
Goals for/60: 3.54
Goals against:/60: 2.16
Differential % with REL: 62.11 (+23.56)

The rest of the Oilers team not playing with McDavid:
Goals for/60: 1.70
Goals against:/60: 2.71
Differential %: 38.55

Oilers Goaltending: 89.13



Barkov:

All situations: 19 points in 19 games
5v5 points: 8 points in 19 games:

5v5:
Goals for/60: 2.36
Goals against:/60: 1.77
Differential with REL: 57.13 (-2.66)

The rest of the Panthers team not playing with Barkov:
Goals for/60: 2.29
Goals against:/60: 1.54
Differential: 59.79

Panthers Goaltending: 91.43


Not saying Barkov isnt having a great playoffs but McDavid is literally carrying a sad sack team as far as he can here. Barkov is a great player getting great support and great goaltending and McDavid is the best player in the playoffs getting neither.

Yeah, totally useless this Draisaitl guy.

 

[Midnight Judges]

What’s behind your recent vendetta against Orr?

I don't have a vendetta against Orr. I just find it odd that his lack of durability is seen by many as a neutral characteristic.

 

[Zybalto]

Yeah, totally useless this Draisaitl guy.

He's certainly a key to the Oilers great PP but has been rough away from McDavid 5v5. Unable to outscore defensive issues.

 

[MCR74]

Is that a locker combination, or.....?

I think it's some sort of record, which hasn't translated at all during this series.

 

[Montreal Shadow]

He's certainly a key to the Oilers great PP but has been rough away from McDavid 5v5. Unable to outscore defensive issues.

McDavid has Hyman, Draisaitl, Bouchard, and RNH carrying the load with him. It's hilariously wrong to paint him as some messiah dragging an offensively challenged team. He has a great supporting cast, at least offensively.

The problem, as always been obvious, is the defense and goaltending.

 

[Zybalto]

McDavid has Hyman, Draisaitl, Bouchard, and RNH carrying the load with him. It's hilariously wrong to paint him as some messiah dragging an offensively challenged team. He has a great supporting cast, at least offensively.

The problem, as always been obvious, is the defense and goaltending.

Goaltending we can agree on but I don't think you are seeing the big picture.

I'm not saying the other guys arnt coming togther to form an incredibly potent PP unit or arnt meshing well playing with him, I'm just pointing out the difference in depth:

The Oilers 5v5 with McDavid:
Goals for/60: 3.54
Goals against:/60: 2.16

5v5 the rest of the Oilers team not playing with McDavid:
Goals for/60: 1.70
Goals against:/60: 2.71

You at least expect those bottom numbers to be a little closer to even. Take it a little further and take out both McDavid and Drai from the mix:

McDavid/Drai 5v5:
TOI: 100:58
Goals for/60: 4.22
Goals against:/60: 1.74

McDavid without Drai:
TOI: 255:12
Goals for/60: 3.28
Goals against:/60: 2.33

Drai without McDavid:
TOI: 222.22
Goals for/60: 2.94
Goals against:/60: 3.23

5v5 the rest of the Oilers team not playing with McDavid or Draisaitl:
TOI: 414:22
Goals for/60: 1.03
Goals against:/60: 2.43

Almost a 1-2.5 goals for/against ratio.....

 

[Ducks DVM]

Bobrovsky is the correct answer to this question.

 

[Nemec]

1. It just takes a mindset that is more than “win good, lose bad” strict black and white level of thinking. Sometimes there are some really exceptional cases that happen to coincide with a non-slam dunk candidate to hand it to like most postseasons.

2. It’s not a championship MVP by definition. It’s awarded to the player judged to be the most valuable to their team throughout the playoffs.

3. The three other major NA sports each have an instance of it happening. Not as much as the NHL of course.

Also a note of interest is that out of the eight times it happened across the four sports, six of them occurred in the 60s and 70s. Maybe people were a little more open-minded and gave it more thought? That being said, there was serious talk about giving it to LeBron during one of those Finals he lost. The discussion is not unheard of outside the NHL.

I don’t think there’s much to worry about currently. McDavid will win it if the Oilers win. Bob and Barkov are two exceptional contenders that either would be easy to hand it to should Florida win.

So why not award the Conn Smythe to Igor then ? Clearly he was the best player in the playoffs and the most valuable player to his team, and it's not even close. Who cares that the Rangers didn't win the Cup?

 

[Elvs]

Its been 2 games and don't give me this BS. G1 clearly was stolen by Bob. You play the first 2 games 100 times Oilers win that game 80 times at least. Edmonton is far from dead.

Edmonton dominated gameplay in G1 partially because Florida got an early lead and started sitting back defending. Right or wrong, it happens all the time in hockey, especially when there's a lot at stake and much nerves involved.

 

[BlueSeal]

If the Oilers win the Cup, Skinner will win the Conn Smythe and it's not even close. McDavid might be the best, but the Oilers need someone greater if they're going to take the Cup and if they do, it's going right to Skinner. That Oiler blueline is the kiss of death.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Bobrovsky

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Edmonton dominated gameplay in G1 partially because Florida got an early lead and started sitting back defending. Right or wrong, it happens all the time in hockey, especially when there's a lot at stake and much nerves involved.

From puck drop Edmonton was dominant and Bob made numerous huge saves.

 

[stampedingviking]

From puck drop Edmonton was dominant and Bob made numerous huge saves.

Oilers were better the first half, Panthers the second.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Oilers were better the first half, Panthers the second.

Panthers were significantly outplayed first two periods.

 

[stampedingviking]

Panthers were significantly outplayed first two periods.

They had an early lead and focused more on defence.

It worked.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

They had an early lead and focused more on defence.

It worked.

No, that's not the reality of the first two periods.

 

[Elvs]

1. From puck drop Edmonton was dominant and 2. Bob made numerous huge saves.

1. That doesn't mean the game would have stayed that way if Edmonton scored the first and second goal. My point stands that teams in the lead tends to sit back, and teams that are under tends to have the puck more. I'm not saying Edmonton didn't dictate game play. I am saying Florida is absolutely good enough to dictate game play more than they did, as was also evident in game 2.

2. I agree. Bobrovsky was awesome in that game.

 

[Cup or Bust]

No, that's not the reality of the first two periods.

The Oilers dominated them in the first game but they couldn't get it done. They better have the energy to do it again if they want to get back in the series.

 

[Cup or Bust]

1. That doesn't mean the game would have stayed that way if Edmonton scored the first and second goal. My point stands that teams in the lead tends to sit back, and teams that are under tends to have the puck more. I'm not saying Edmonton didn't dictate game play. I am saying Florida is absolutely good enough to dictate game play more than they did.

2. I agree. Bobrovsky was awesome in that game.

I would agree with your point if the Panthers were actually playing good defensively and the Oilers were not getting quality scoring chances but Florida's defense was pretty bad for most of the game and the Oilers were getting lots of good scoring chances so I am not sure how they were "defending" their lead. Bobrovsky was defending the lead and the Panthers were simply getting badly outplayed but credit to them they held it together and got the win and it doesn't matter how you win in the playoffs as long as you win.

 

[Elvs]

McDavid or Bob are the most obvious choices. Game 1 was straight up stolen by goaltending.

Oddly enough, depth players and goaltending are playing the biggest role in peoples perceptions.

Take a guy like Barkov who many are mentioning and compare him to McDavid.



McDavid:

All situations: 32 points in 20 games
5v5 points: 15 points in 20 games:
(these both lead all players)

5v5:
Goals for/60: 3.54
Goals against:/60: 2.16
Differential % with REL: 62.11 (+23.56)

The rest of the Oilers team not playing with McDavid:
Goals for/60: 1.70
Goals against:/60: 2.71
Differential %: 38.55

Oilers Goaltending: 89.13



Barkov:

All situations: 19 points in 19 games
5v5 points: 8 points in 19 games:

5v5:
Goals for/60: 2.36
Goals against:/60: 1.77
Differential with REL: 57.13 (-2.66)

The rest of the Panthers team not playing with Barkov:
Goals for/60: 2.29
Goals against:/60: 1.54
Differential: 59.79

Panthers Goaltending: 91.43


Not saying Barkov isnt having a great playoffs but McDavid is literally carrying a sad sack team as far as he can here. Barkov is a great player getting great support and great goaltending and McDavid is the best player in the playoffs getting neither.

The myth that Edmonton has no supporting cast needs to die. It hasn't been true for the last couple of years at least. Goaltending is still a problem but there's been a couple of games these playoffs were Skinner also stole a couple of games.

As for the Conn Smythe I see your point, but in a scenario where Barkov is matching up against McDavid and shuts him down and Florida wins the cup, the Smythe should be his.

I would agree with your point if the Panthers were actually playing good defensively and the Oilers were not getting quality scoring chances but Florida's defense was pretty bad for most of the game and the Oilers were getting lots of good scoring chances so I am not sure how they were "defending" their lead. Bobrovsky was defending the lead and the Panthers were simply getting badly outplayed but credit to them they held it together and got the win and it doesn't matter how you win in the playoffs as long as you win.

Sitting back and playing defense doesn't equal playing good defense. I agree they looked quite horrible defending that lead for the first half of the game. Likely nerves was a factor.

 

[Zybalto]

The myth that Edmonton has no supporting cast needs to die. It hasn't been true for the last couple of years at least. Goaltending is still a problem but there's been a couple of games these playoffs were Skinner also stole a couple of games.

As for the Conn Smythe I see your point, but in a scenario where Barkov is matching up against McDavid and shuts him down and Florida wins the cup, the Smythe should be his.

I dont think the "myth" needs to die when its never been more true.

Tacking on Drai and Bouchard makes things even crazier:


5v5 with McDavid:
Goals for/60: 3.54
Goals against:/60: 2.16

5v5 with Drai:
Goals for/60: 3.34
Goals against:/60: 2.76

5v5 with Bouchard:
Goals for/60: 3.8
Goals against:/60: 1.84

5v5 the rest of the Oilers team not playing with McDavid/Bouchard/Draisaitl:
Goals for/60: 1.06
Goals against:/60: 2.53
29.50% goal differential

Thats not convincing me the "myth" is dead.

Oilers Goaltending: 89.13

Im down for Barkov getting it if he is actually shutting down McDavid but it really does feel like Bob (who stole game 1) has the inside track.


Not to get too nerdy on you but.....

McDavid after 2 games:

Most shots in the series
2nd most individual scoring chances in the series
Tied for most individual high-danger chances in the series
Highest individual expected goals in the series

Is Barkov "shutting him down" or is Bob with his .980 save% doing it?