Post-Game Talk: Hurricane V - Mod warning in OP - READ IT

[Fitzy]

Also we can analyze this team's problems and deficiencies, but that doesn't deal with the fact that Carolina was absolutely insane last night. One of the best displays of defensive forechecking I've ever seen. Zero space. Zero way to create space without having eyes in the back of your head.

Made Tortorella Tampa look just good by comparison.

 

[duhmetreE]

I think it’s less on GG and more on most of these guys are approaching double the games they’ve played the last two seasons along with many of them not taking offseason workouts seriously so they are really breaking down.

Hoping they take it more serious going into the offseason. Mickey mouse camp is over.

 

[Machinehead]

PLEASE. do something. We have been bad at even strength the entire Playoffs. How bad is it? The line of Motte Rooney Reaves have our best xG%

That's not true. Lafreniere-Chytil-Kakko blow their doors off. That line is at 72.3 xGF% against Carolina (and we broke it up LMAO!)

Motte has only been a thing in the Carolina series (where we've played a million times better in terms of xGF% - he's not getting hit with that 11% xGF from game 4) and he's spent half the series not on that line.

Rooney is coming in at 26.3 xGF% against Carolina. He and Reaves are firmly our worst forwards.

 

[will1066]

I recharged my phone a bit and unplugged it at 64%. It's a sign.

 

[duhmetreE]

It's not over yet. We need to win our home game.

If we go out... let us go out in game7. The season would be considered a success. Our weak points have been made known. It's up to management to address them.

That's not true. Lafreniere-Chytil-Kakko blow their doors off. That line is at 72.3 xGF% against Carolina (and we broke it up LMAO!)

Motte has only been a thing in the Carolina series (where we've played a million times better in terms of xGF% - he's not getting hit with that 11% xGF from game 4) and he's spent half the series not on that line.

Rooney is coming in at 26.3 xGF% against Carolina. He and Reaves are firmly our worst forwards.

 

[will1066]

Also we can analyze this team's problems and deficiencies, but that doesn't deal with the fact that Carolina was absolutely insane last night. One of the best displays of defensive forechecking I've ever seen. Zero space. Zero way to create space without having eyes in the back of your head.

Made Tortorella Tampa look just good by comparison.

And how do you break that? Bang bodies. Because it means Canes players are a step or two slower than where they need to be for their structure as they recover from hits and rub-outs. Finish checks.

 

[Machinehead]

It's not over yet. We need to win our home game.

If we go out... let us go out in game7. The season would be considered a success. Our weak points have been made known. It's up to management to address them.

That's not what it says on Natural Stat Trick and the point about the Penguins series stands.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

It was also the other way around too, when Copp got here and Strome got hurt Panarin played his best hockey of the year. With Copp at center with Panarin and whoever they had on the other side (IIRC it was Kakko and Hunt switching) they were outstanding. This is because Copp is one of the best transition forwards in hockey where i'm willing to bet, honest to god, Strome is one of the worst. But I do think Strome is also better away from Panarin, but still not amazing. It's just really frustrating that there seems to be nothing that can break them apart and it's lasted for two f***ing coaches.

Miller has played more hockey to this point than he has his entire college career combined. I think it's more than fair to expect he hasn't looked as dynamic. He also has to carry Trouba's stupid ass around with him. He is absolutely the least of my concerns.

Agreed on Jones and Kakko.


Zac Jones would be the most evasive defender on the team, that matters a lot to avoiding hits and being durable.

Fox has gotten crunched several times these playoffs and always gets right back up. I really don't get this attitude that being small means you just cease to exist in the playoffs.

Agree. Honestly, the size thing doesn't matter anymore. If this were 1997 yes, the size size would matter more when the game was actually brutally physical especially in the playoffs. When guys like Pronger and Stevens existed.

The game evolved to the point where players like that don't really exist and guys like Trouba are the closest thing really.

The game now is built for small and middle sized players with skill. Jones would probably be perfectly fine out there. And his skill on PP 2 and in transition would have helped a lot especially in this series.

 

[NikC]

Also we can analyze this team's problems and deficiencies, but that doesn't deal with the fact that Carolina was absolutely insane last night. One of the best displays of defensive forechecking I've ever seen. Zero space. Zero way to create space without having eyes in the back of your head.

Made Tortorella Tampa look just good by comparison.

The answer to that is finding a way to disrupt their game. If Trouba laid out ADA, Aho, or someone else...

You can't just let them play their game.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

Also we can analyze this team's problems and deficiencies, but that doesn't deal with the fact that Carolina was absolutely insane last night. One of the best displays of defensive forechecking I've ever seen. Zero space. Zero way to create space without having eyes in the back of your head.

Made Tortorella Tampa look just good by comparison.

They also get away with picking and interference on a level not seen since the mid to late 90s.

And they only get away with it and can do it at home.

On the road they are exposed for the smoke and mirrors sham that they are.

 

[Machinehead]

Agree. Honestly, the size thing doesn't matter anymore. If this were 1997 yes, the size size would matter more when the game was actually brutally physical especially in the playoffs. When guys like Pronger and Stevens existed.

The game evolved to the point where players like that don't really exist and guys like Trouba are the closest thing really.

The game now is built for small and middle sized players with skill. Jones would probably be perfectly fine out there. And his skill on PP 2 and in transition would have helped a lot especially in this series.

Checking is still important but it's more about speed than size. Reaves will never catch anyone. That's why Motte is effective as a 4th liner. It's more about speed on both ends.

On defense, I understand wanting some size (we have more than enough) because you need a bouncer or two to clear the crease, but I really don't get the concern over smaller defensemen getting "abused." Most of the good forecheckers are fast more than big nowadays and being more slippery and more skilled is exactly what you need to avoid the forecheck. Guys like Trouba and Schneider are giant f***ing targets.

The answer to that is finding a way to disrupt their game. If Trouba laid out ADA, Aho, or someone else...

You can't just let them play their game.

What disrupts that is going to hit somebody and then he's not there.

That requires less Trouba and more Jones.

 

[NikC]

Checking is still important but it's more about speed than size. Reaves will never catch anyone. That's why Motte is effective as a 4th liner. It's more about speed on both ends.

On defense, I understand wanting some size (we have more than enough) because you need a bouncer or two to clear the crease, but I really don't get the concern over smaller defensemen getting "abused." Most of the good forecheckers are fast more than big nowadays and being more slippery and more skilled is exactly what you need to avoid the forecheck. Guys like Trouba and Schneider are giant f***ing targets.


What disrupts that is going to hit somebody and then he's not there.

That requires less Trouba and more Jones.

If Trouba can tag Crosby and Domi, he can tag a Canes player. The physical play made a difference in both ranger home wins. It will make a difference on Saturday and IF they have any chance to win a game 7.

 

[Machinehead]

If Trouba can tag Crosby and Domi, he can tag a Canes player. The physical play made a difference in both ranger home wins. It will make a difference on Saturday and IF they have any chance to win a game 7.

Physical play form your D can shut down zone entries. It doesn't help you against the forecheck. You have the puck when the other team is forechecking. Who are we gonna hit when we have the puck?

 

[GENESISPuck94]

Checking is still important but it's more about speed than size. Reaves will never catch anyone. That's why Motte is effective as a 4th liner. It's more about speed on both ends.

On defense, I understand wanting some size (we have more than enough) because you need a bouncer or two to clear the crease, but I really don't get the concern over smaller defensemen getting "abused." Most of the good forecheckers are fast more than big nowadays and being more slippery and more skilled is exactly what you need to avoid the forecheck. Guys like Trouba and Schneider are giant f***ing targets.


What disrupts that is going to hit somebody and then he's not there.

That requires less Trouba and more Jones.

I also think the clearing the front of the net is a thing of the past. The rules that were put in essentially erased the net-front battles of old where a player actually had to EARN that spot in front of the net. Graves made a living doing it. His 50 goal season was earned through rough battles in front.

Now you can't touch a forward in front without getting a penalty. Kreider can park himself there without contention.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Physical play form your D can shut down zone entries. It doesn't help you against the forecheck. You have the puck when the other team is forechecking. Who are we gonna hit when we have the puck?

IMO they need to get better at pick plays / legal-ish interference. Similar to the first shift last night when Kreider got frustrated and dumped Skjei beind the net. Took Kreider completely out of the forecheck / cycle game.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The Canes make tape to tape in stride passes. They generate speed and forechecking through it.

The Rangers even when they are not scrambling just to chip it out or in, make passes into each other skates, or behind the intended recipient, or elevated like a foot off the ice. It been like that pretty much for the whole playoffs.

The Canes were gaining the zone with speed all night and every time we tried it was broken up. I remember one specific play by Mika. I think it might have been a bad pass but he tried to enter the zone with speed and was just stripped of the puck.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

The Canes were gaining the zone with speed all night and every time we tried it was broken up. I remember one specific play by Mika. I think it might have been a bad pass but he tried to enter the zone with speed and was just stripped of the puck.

Another thing the top teams do that the NYR are not great at. Entering the zone with speed, controlling the puck, as a 3 man unit. One player gets to the high slot, fires the puck, the other two crash the net. See it alllll over the league but the NYR don't play this way.

 

[bl02]

I think Hunt would help a bit especially on the road for the 4th line. Maybe retrieve a puck or two???
Reaves kakko and even Rooney are useless in getting it deep behind Carolina’s d. Too slow.
At least on the road if we can win tomorrow.
Hunt was in the lineup pretty much every game even playing top 6 now he can’t get in over Reaves

 

[savebyrichter94]

Another thing the top teams do that the NYR are not great at. Entering the zone with speed, controlling the puck, as a 3 man unit. One player gets to the high slot, fires the puck, the other two crash the net. See it alllll over the league but the NYR don't play this way.

Because they look to pass or shoot for a tip if they even manage to get setup in this fashion

 

[Machinehead]

IMO they need to get better at pick plays / legal-ish interference. Similar to the first shift last night when Kreider got frustrated and dumped Skjei beind the net. Took Kreider completely out of the forecheck / cycle game.

I totally agree with that. It's still different from the forecheck thing.

I just don't get the idea of D's just toughing through a forecheck. Trouba is 6'3" and maybe he's 220. A smallish player in the NHL is 6'0" 195. It's not that much of a difference. If 195 hits 220, and 220 is skating on quarter inch blades, he's getting disrupted. This isn't Rey Mysterio bouncing off of a guy who's 460.

By no means is Trouba a slug and I'm just using him as an example, but speed and passing beats forechecking. Size is absolutely not helping you.

 

[Crease]

Another thing the top teams do that the NYR are not great at. Entering the zone with speed, controlling the puck, as a 3 man unit. One player gets to the high slot, fires the puck, the other two crash the net. See it alllll over the league but the NYR don't play this way.

Rangers have two entries: (1) dump and chase; or (2) carry in and drop the puck back to the winger standing against the boards just inside the blue line.

Option (2) usually leads to dumping the puck into the corner or making a dangerous pass across the blue line.

 

[Machinehead]

Maybe I'm just not understanding but when @Fitzy says "defensive forecheck" I'm thinking in terms of we have the puck in our zone and Carolina isn't letting us start.

Physciality isn't beating that.

 

[NikC]

Physical play form your D can shut down zone entries. It doesn't help you against the forecheck. You have the puck when the other team is forechecking. Who are we gonna hit when we have the puck?

It would help on the dump ins, which is the way the Rangers should be entering the zone with a team like this...

Problem is, they resort to dump and skate away

 

[17futurecap]

It’s a shame they have a shot to play a super fast 4th line, and just refuse. Brod got screwed he played in that game 4 in Pittsburgh, but since they got blown out, he was the one to come out, when in reality he actually did his job, and was solid.

 

[Cygnus 2112]

Last night’s game (along with Games 3 and 4 vs. Pit) will look so dramatic on the 2022 Cup Champs’ retrospective video.