How would you rate out drafting the past few years??

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You and your semantics nonsense
This isn't even semantics. You just flat out made incorrect statements - many of which you still refuse to acknowledge and address. Being correct and accurate isn't "nonsense". It should be the bare minimum, and it's pretty easy to do.
Giordano is 38 years old today but will turn 39 on Oct 3 before the next season 2022-23 begins and they re-signed him for 2 years to play at age 39 and 40.
Yes, they re-signed him for an extremely low 800k - well below his level of play, well below what he could have gotten on the open market, and a price that is fully buriable if necessary.
But what you actually said was they traded draft picks for "39 year old Giordano". That is false. 38-year old Giordano was traded for, at 50% retention, and 38 year old Gordano played for us.
We also received Blackwell in the trade - a piece that, despite being reminded multiple times, you are repeatedly leaving out when discussing it.
So by trading their 2nds in 2022 & 2023 and 3rd in 2024 for GIO that is the same equivalent in opportunity cost draft capital of Leafs dealing away their 3 X best prospects which they obtained with the very similar cost in 2nd and 3rd round draft capital from prior drafts.
Once again, we did not trade two 2nds and a 3rd for Giordano. We traded two 2nds and a 3rd for Giordano with 50% retention and Blackwell. And no, that is not the equivalent of trading our 3 best prospects. That is a wildly twisted way of discussing the trade. Those prospects are currently worth significantly more than their original draft position.

This would be like looking at failed past draft choices from the 2nd and 3rd round and claiming that we didn't trade anything at all because those specific past picks didn't hit. That's not how this works. 2nd and 3rd round picks have an established value, and that value is not the best draft picks taken from that round.

Was Detroit trading a Zetterberg every time they traded a 7th round pick? Or how about a Datsyuk every time they traded a 6th?
Did Tampa trade 2 Vasilevskys for Hagel this trade deadline?

If you believe any 2nd or 3rd round pick that Dubas gets is equivalent to these top prospects, then you would have to believe that Dubas is the best drafter in the history of the league. Is that how you feel?
The Leafs just surrendered the opportunity costs of doubling up on their top prospects but instead sacrificed it for a very SHORT term gain of playing the oldest skater in the NHL and Leafs future prospect pool just took a massive hit to do so.
The opportunity cost was not "doubling up on their top prospects", and our prospect pool did not take a "massive hit". The cost was two 2nds and a 3rd for Giordano (50% retained) and Blackwell, which is a decent price, and not that short-term when we are getting 2 additional years out of Giordano at a great cap hit. I'm not sure why you started continuously describing Giordano - a solid defenseman who won a Norris a few years ago, who has maintained extremely well through older ages, and who would have gotten significantly more on the open market - in exclusively negative ways once he was acquired by and re-signed with Toronto.

Do you believe every team that acquires a rental or older player has made a complete failure of a trade? Why do you only talk like this in regards to Toronto - who spent less futures than their rivals at the trade deadline?

You've talked pretty favourably about Florida lately. Have you taken a look at what they did this past trade deadline, and what their prospect pool and draft pick selection looks like in coming years?
 
My expectations are simple

1 - get at least 1 top6 / top 4 Damn every draft

2 - development time should be no longer than 5yrs

This will be Robertson 4th year and it's looking like he will make the Leafs

Durzi is a full time NHLer with LA and had a really good year. Sandin is should be a full time NHLer

I'd say Dubas is doing a fantastic job
 
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100%. Marner was "undersized" and was highly skilled and off the charts IQ. That post made no sense.
Dubas and Hunter rarely saw eye to eye which is normal when two men are vying for the same position.
No idea if Dubas wanted Marner but it wouldn't be a surprise if he didn't just to be contrary.
 
regime before hunter picking nylander instead of some of the other options puts dubas below that one too.

Reilly was an incredible pick by burke as well

Dude played 10 games of OHL hockey due to injury

If you look at most of that draft it's one of the best decisions he made here
 
100%. Marner was "undersized" and was highly skilled and off the charts IQ. That post made no sense.
Yeah, there's really zero argument that Dubas wouldn't have wanted Marner. Even aside from the fact that he was the clear choice and consensus among the majority, the fact that only Babcock was reported to want Hanafin, and the fact that Dubas literally picked him, he's exactly the type of player that Dubas would have seen as undervalued and underappreciated due to his size.

Thank god we didn't listen to Babcock.
 
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Dubas and Hunter rarely saw eye to eye which is normal when two men are vying for the same position.
No idea if Dubas wanted Marner but it wouldn't be a surprise if he didn't just to be contrary.
You're not entirely wrong here with your speculation here. :wg:

Dubas and Hunter were both interim GMs and it was Hunter in charge of whom the team picks and Dubas in charge of the draft positions themselves.

There was a lot of talk at the draft floor that Leafs were considering moving back from #4 to number #8 (with CBJ) and were asking for a pair of 2nds (#34 & #38) to make that move,,, CBJ eventually rejected that move as too high a price to move up 4 spots. So we don't know whom Dubas preferred at #4 OA but we do know he was actively trying to deal the pick away (like he does so many 1sts), so he clearly wasn't on board with picking Mitch where Hunter took him. Had CBJ accepted the offer then Leafs would have picked #8 instead if Dubas got his wish, and likely missed on Marner.

While unsuccessful to trade the Marner pick away, Leafs did have a 2nd X 1st round pick at #24 OA, and Dubas did take that Leafs other 1st round pick first trading with Philly (passing on Travis Konecny)

- Philly Traded • 2015 first round pick (#29-Gabriel Carlsson) • 2015 second round pick (#61-Jeremy Bracco) to Maple Leafs for • 2015 first round pick (#24-Travis Konecny) on 2015-06-26

Then Dubas traded back a 2nd time and out of the 1st this time with CBJ for a 2nd and 3rd rounder.

- Columbus Traded • 2015 second round pick (#34-Travis Dermott) • 2015 third round pick (#68-Martins Dzierkals) to Maple Leafs for • 2015 first round pick (#29-Gabriel Carlsson) on 2015-06-26

So Leafs passed on Travis Konecny (428 games 110 goals 161 assists 271 points 266 Pims) for Travis Dermott (268 games 13 goals 41 assists 54 points 100 Pims) + Jeremy Bracco (0-0-0 pts) + Martin Dzierkals (0-0-0 pts) :facepalm:
 
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You're not entirely wrong here with your speculation here. :wg:

Dubas and Hunter were both interim GMs and it was Hunter in charge of whom the team picks and Dubas in charge of the draft positions themselves.

There was a lot of talk at the draft floor that Leafs were considering moving back from #4 to number #8 (with CBJ) and were asking for a pair of 2nds (#34 & #38) to make that move,,, CBJ eventually rejected that move as too high a price to move up 4 spots. So we don't know whom Dubas preferred at #4 OA but we do know he was actively trying to deal the pick away (like he does so many 1sts), so he clearly wasn't on board with picking Mitch where Hunter took him. Had CBJ accepted the offer then Leafs would have picked #8 instead if Dubas got his wish, and likely missed on Marner.

While unsuccessful to trade the Marner pick away, Leafs did have a 2nd X 1st round pick at #24 OA, and Dubas did take that Leafs other 1st round pick first trading with Philly (passing on Travis Konecny)

- Philly Traded • 2015 first round pick (#29-Gabriel Carlsson) • 2015 second round pick (#61-Jeremy Bracco) to Maple Leafs for • 2015 first round pick (#24-Travis Konecny) on 2015-06-26

Then Dubas traded back a 2nd time and out of the 1st this time with CBJ for a 2nd and 3rd rounder.

- Columbus Traded • 2015 second round pick (#34-Travis Dermott) • 2015 third round pick (#68-Martins Dzierkals) to Maple Leafs for • 2015 first round pick (#29-Gabriel Carlsson) on 2015-06-26
Playing the speculation game; maybe word on the floor was Marner would be sliding to 8,so they wanted to gain more picks and get Marner :dunno:
I love speculation. It's just like propaganda, needs no proof
 
Playing the speculation game; maybe word on the floor was Marner would be sliding to 8,so they wanted to gain more picks and get Marner :dunno:
I love speculation. It's just like propaganda, needs no proof
There are varying degrees of speculation. Some can be classified as more likely than others. Not impossible but sliding to 8 wouldn’t be considered very likely.
 
There are varying degrees of speculation. Some can be classified as more likely than others. Not impossible but sliding to 8 wouldn’t be considered very likely.
Hanifin provorov zacha debrusk werenski barzal Connor we're all still on the board to name a few. It was a mad deep draft.
Saying an undersized skill player might fall to 8 in a draft that deep is not a crazy reach
 
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There are varying degrees of speculation. Some can be classified as more likely than others. Not impossible but sliding to 8 wouldn’t be considered very likely.
Another example of speculation that would be considered extremely, extremely unlikely would be Dubas not wanting to draft Marner, especially considering that Dubas literally did draft Marner, Marner was the clear and consensus pick at #4, and Marner perfectly fits the profile of a historically underappreciated and undervalued prospect that Dubas likes targeting.
 
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Playing the speculation game; maybe word on the floor was Marner would be sliding to 8,so they wanted to gain more picks and get Marner :dunno:
I love speculation. It's just like propaganda, needs no proof

Maple Leafs may look to trade top selection​


Making over the Toronto Maple Leafs starts with making significant trades. To that end, reports say team president Brendan Shanahan and his crew are looking to peddle their first-round pick and scoring winger Phil Kessel.

With many general managers in Buffalo over the weekend for the NHL Scouting Combine, trade rumors grew like a prairie fire. It's not surprising the Leafs were involved, although the notion of trading the fourth overall pick in the 2015 NHL Draft was less expected than disposing of Kessel.

It may not matter, because by the time the fourth pick comes around, the Leafs may have traded it. All options, it appears, are open as the Leafs undertake a franchise rebuild.

“It’s something we would definitely look at,” Leafs interim co-GM Kyle Dubas told The Toronto Star in regard to trading the first-round pick. “If someone else was adamant about a player, we’re pretty comfortable with the players in that cluster. “We need to be acquiring as many draft pick assets as we can, as many prospects as we can. If there was something that made sense, we’d be open to listening and are having some thorough discussions on the fourth pick.”

It seems that there may be more than just Strome, Marner and Hanifin on the Leafs early first round draft board. The idea of trading down a few spots to pick up a second rounder as well is an interesting thought. Maybe the Leafs have Matthew Barzal and Ivan Provorov high on their draft rankings? It’s possible they could deal down behind Carolina to pick up one of those players.
 
There are varying degrees of speculation. Some can be classified as more likely than others. Not impossible but sliding to 8 wouldn’t be considered very likely.

Would you have offered Columbus the fourth pick?​


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As discovered by PPP a couple days back, it looks like the Toronto Maple Leafs made a pretty serious offer to the Columbus Blue Jackets that involved the fourth overall pick in the 2015 Draft.

In the ‘2015 CBJ Draft Table’ video released by Jackets TV, Columbus GM Jarmo Kekalainen mulled over an offer from the Leafs that would see the fourth overall pick swapped for the eighth, 34th, 38th.

If the Arizona Coyotes didn't take Noah Hanifin, the Leafs were interested in moving away from the Mitch Marner selection in order to move back with the Columbus Blue Jackets, according to a video released on Jackets TV.

While Kekalainen played it cool on the phone with an unnamed member of the Leafs’ front office, he told his draft table that, if Arizona passed on Hanifin with the third pick, Toronto want “all of [our] seconds” in exchange for dropping down four spots in the order. That is a huge, huge price for Columbus to pay, making it all the more surprising when Kekalainen told his table"he’d probably take the deal if he wasn’t so sure he’d get Zach Werenski at eight".

As we know, Kekalainen turned down Toronto’s offer. Mitch Marner became a Maple Leaf with the fourth overall pick, while the Blue Jackets got Werenski as expected.

Basically, this almost happened. But it didn’t.

 
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Maple Leafs may look to trade top selection​


Making over the Toronto Maple Leafs starts with making significant trades. To that end, reports say team president Brendan Shanahan and his crew are looking to peddle their first-round pick and scoring winger Phil Kessel.

With many general managers in Buffalo over the weekend for the NHL Scouting Combine, trade rumors grew like a prairie fire. It's not surprising the Leafs were involved, although the notion of trading the fourth overall pick in the 2015 NHL Draft was less expected than disposing of Kessel.

It may not matter, because by the time the fourth pick comes around, the Leafs may have traded it. All options, it appears, are open as the Leafs undertake a franchise rebuild.

“It’s something we would definitely look at,” Leafs interim co-GM Kyle Dubas told The Toronto Star in regard to trading the first-round pick. “If someone else was adamant about a player, we’re pretty comfortable with the players in that cluster. “We need to be acquiring as many draft pick assets as we can, as many prospects as we can. If there was something that made sense, we’d be open to listening and are having some thorough discussions on the fourth pick.”

It seems that there may be more than just Strome, Marner and Hanifin on the Leafs early first round draft board. The idea of trading down a few spots to pick up a second rounder as well is an interesting thought. Maybe the Leafs have Matthew Barzal and Ivan Provorov high on their draft rankings? It’s possible they could deal down behind Carolina to pick up one of those players.
Rumor=speculation
 
Hanifin provorov zacha debrusk werenski barzal Connor we're all still on the board to name a few. It was a mad deep draft.
Saying an undersized skill player might fall to 8 in a draft that deep is not a crazy reach
Hunter had him 2nd, believe it or not.
 
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Would you have offered Columbus the fourth pick?​


View attachment 573579

As discovered by PPP a couple days back, it looks like the Toronto Maple Leafs made a pretty serious offer to the Columbus Blue Jackets that involved the fourth overall pick in the 2015 Draft.

In the ‘2015 CBJ Draft Table’ video released by Jackets TV, Columbus GM Jarmo Kekalainen mulled over an offer from the Leafs that would see the fourth overall pick swapped for the eighth, 34th, 38th.

If the Arizona Coyotes didn't take Noah Hanifin, the Leafs were interested in moving away from the Mitch Marner selection in order to move back with the Columbus Blue Jackets, according to a video released on Jackets TV.

While Kekalainen played it cool on the phone with an unnamed member of the Leafs’ front office, he told his draft table that, if Arizona passed on Hanifin with the third pick, Toronto want “all of [our] seconds” in exchange for dropping down four spots in the order. That is a huge, huge price for Columbus to pay, making it all the more surprising when Kekalainen told his table he’d probably take the deal if he wasn’t so sure he’d get Zach Werenski at eight.

As we know, Kekalainen turned down Toronto’s offer. Mitch Marner became a Maple Leaf with the fourth overall pick, while the Blue Jackets got Werenski as expected.

Basically, this almost happened. But it didn’t.

Thankfully(if true) Columbus prevented Dubas from making another big mistake.

I think you are correct, but it's where the of the GMs had him that makes it interesting.
We were fortunate to be able to draft him
Could you imagine if the Leafs had the 2nd pick and took Marner over Eichel?
I know there was a bit of relief there that this decision didn't need to be made.
Turns out it would have been the right one.
 
Thankfully(if true) Columbus prevented Dubas from making another big mistake.


Could you imagine if the Leafs had the 2nd pick and took Marner over Eichel?
I know there was a bit of relief there that this decision didn't need to be made.
Turns out it would have been the right one.
With that I wonder how Eichel would have developed here. Buffalo really seems toxic to young talent.

I know most of the dubas talk focuses on drafting and trades, but he's done a hell of a job building the back of the house especially the development department. I feel this should be taken into about when discussing him as GM
 
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Hanifin provorov zacha debrusk werenski barzal Connor we're all still on the board to name a few. It was a mad deep draft.
Saying an undersized skill player might fall to 8 in a draft that deep is not a crazy reach
I think we interviewed also Rantanen and liked him a lot. Wouldn't have been bad to have Rantanen playing with Matthews. They would compliment each other perfectly. Both can cycle, pass and has deadly shot. Matthews generational shooter with player that can also finish and is huge in same line. We might have drafted Aho, which would might have resulted pretty nice situation, but this is easy to speculate.
 
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"Not picking Noah Hanifin" most likely means that if Marner went 3rd, they would trade down to 8th. Makes zero sense otherwise. As long as the player picked 3rd is not named Hanifin you're going to trade down? lol. I'm also very tired right now maybe I'm using did/didn't logic in reverse.

There was no way Hunter was giving up Marner. I can't find the link but if I remember correctly the other 2 players we were high on were provorov and Rantanen? We would have ended up with Rantanen or Werenski (if they wanted Provorov over Rantanen then its possible they stick with D) at 8th then.

They identified some really good guys in the top 8 and seem to have correctly subtracted guys like hanifin, strome and zacha
 

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