TSN: How the coronavirus could impact the NHL’s bottom line UPD: NHL Season suspended MOD Warning post139

[HeadInjury]

Right, because if no one called it the Chinese Virus, then racists never would have thought to blame Asians for it. It never would have crossed their racist little minds, even though the outbreak originated in China.

I'm reminded of a Sikh gentleman who was beat up at his convenience store after 9/11. Because the racist who beat him up was too stupid to know he (a) was from India and (b) wasn't a Muslim.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Right, because if no one called it the Chinese Virus, then racists never would have thought to blame Asians for it. It never would have crossed their racist little minds, even though the outbreak originated in China.

Not the point. I'm sure everyone agrees overt racists would just be looking for an excuse/reason.

The question is, why sanction an outlet?

 

[Lt Dan]

but be aware that language has power,

 

[King'sPawn]

I get you.

That said I see it like this. If someone is actually saying things that express a racist point of view and I mean actually racist things (derogatory terminology names etc) where their racism is 100% undeniable than I consider them to be racist and their pov's invalid (hatred is always going to be blinding to the truth so I don't consider the individuals pov to be of importance to rational thinking)

I don't consider someone to be racist simply because they interpret the facts differently than I do. Let's say "I am a Trump supporter". Many people see President Trump as a racist for some reason. So there are people who would consider me to also be a racist simply because they "feel" that I must support what they see as racist thoughts acts deeds of the President (none of which can be supported by any facts). I believe that you have to take each individual at their own word and where appropriate actions. I absolutely hate seal meat and think that people who kill seals and eat their meat are either primitive or ignorant. Where I used to live it was culturally appropriate for people to kill and eat seals. The people I knew who did so hated the taste of the meat but felt that they needed to keep up with their traditions and so they did. I spent years disliking the people who followed this cultural nonsense. Time passed and I spent more time getting to know these people and began to understand where they were coming from. I told them (there was a group of them living in one area and would meet as a group to make it easy) one day how I felt about what they were doing and how wrong I believed it was but that I had learned to love the people and found a common ground between their actions and them as a group.

They explained how important their traditions were to them and then uninvited me from any further activities. Was I a racist? I didn't dislike any of them based on the color of their skin or their national origins or the clothes they wore or any other reason except that they slaughtered and ate seals. Were they racist? I am mostly considered to be caucasian to those who don't know me but the only thing that they knew about me was that I wasn't an indigenous person who didn't like one of their traditions.

I know I am being very long winded (surprise!) but my point is that racism isn't typically so easily defined so to me using the term should only be for situations where the offending person is clearly stating a very derogatory opinion about another person/race based solely on the color of their skin. Otherwise terms like "Mexican" or other nationalities can be mislabeled as being racist when they are simply statements of fact. If I was standing next to someone who used the word "Mexican" in a derogatory manner I would go full yard sale on them in the same way I would if I was standing next to someone who insulted my wife daughter or other family members based the color of their skin or who they chose to have as a partner. I guess that is where I am coming from. People use the term racist for the very very wrong reasons today and it disgusts me to my core. Racist are always easy to define. Imo anyways.

I think I understand what you're saying, but ultimately I disagree.

If we call out only blatant racism, then frankly, racists can use subtext to intimidate the minorities they hate, simply because it's not overt. As it is, there are racists who use the term Chinese virus to perpetuate their attitudes and there are people, like K17, who use it for, lack of a better term, preference. Have a Chinese person hear it, and they will still feel targeted/intimidated all the same, with good reason. Sure, K17 has never said "I hate Chinese people" but if a term is used in a casual attack, no matter what, it brings people up on the defense. And it's AVOIDABLE.

I'm white and male as can be. I've been fortunate in my life where I haven't had to endure racism, sexism, age-ism, able-ism, or any other -ism. I'm someone who won't suffer from the "as long as it's not overt, it's not a problem" mentality. It still perpetuates this cycle of mistreatment and cynicism, and when the affected parties get frustrated, it reinforces the attitude of "this group of people is a problem"

I'm trying not to have a sociology lecture here, but as RJ pointed out, he has Middle Eastern descent. I'm sure he can provide you multiple times in his life he's had subliminal racism thrown his way. If you have a female partner, I'm sure she can tell you about sexism she's endured, even if it's just making a little bit less money than a male doing the same job.

Granted, just because something is unfair doesn't mean it needs to be labeled as discriminatory, nor should non-PC people be called as racists - but if you use a word or gesture, knowing the context of it (whether or not YOU feel it), you need to be aware of how people perceive it. Whether or not you care about the perception is up to you.

 

[HookKing]

You gotta love these lectures on "racism" from people whose remaining presidential candidates both called 1/2 the country racists based on their vote in the last presidential election.

You know the term has become meaningless when the left has to keep staging incidents to prove it exists.

 

[KINGS17]

One more thing I would like all of us to take a moment to remember. Several Chinese citizens have paid the ultimate price while trying to warn the rest of the world about the virus. These people are brave heroes. Tyranny is never acceptable.

 

[KINGS17]

I think I understand what you're saying, but ultimately I disagree.

If we call out only blatant racism, then frankly, racists can use subtext to intimidate the minorities they hate, simply because it's not overt. As it is, there are racists who use the term Chinese virus to perpetuate their attitudes and there are people, like K17, who use it for, lack of a better term, preference. Have a Chinese person hear it, and they will still feel targeted/intimidated all the same, with good reason. Sure, K17 has never said "I hate Chinese people" but if a term is used in a casual attack, no matter what, it brings people up on the defense. And it's AVOIDABLE.

I'm white and male as can be. I've been fortunate in my life where I haven't had to endure racism, sexism, age-ism, able-ism, or any other -ism. I'm someone who won't suffer from the "as long as it's not overt, it's not a problem" mentality. It still perpetuates this cycle of mistreatment and cynicism, and when the affected parties get frustrated, it reinforces the attitude of "this group of people is a problem"

I'm trying not to have a sociology lecture here, but as RJ pointed out, he has Middle Eastern descent. I'm sure he can provide you multiple times in his life he's had subliminal racism thrown his way. If you have a female partner, I'm sure she can tell you about sexism she's endured, even if it's just making a little bit less money than a male doing the same job.

Granted, just because something is unfair doesn't mean it needs to be labeled as discriminatory, nor should non-PC people be called as racists - but if you use a word or gesture, knowing the context of it (whether or not YOU feel it), you need to be aware of how people perceive it. Whether or not you care about the perception is up to you.

Just want to be clear about something. If you check my posts in this thread I almost always refer to the virus as COVID-19 or coronavirus. I defend the right of others or myself to call the virus by another name if it fits in their context. When Chinese propaganda is the topic of a discussion, I tend to believe the term "Chinese Virus" is more acceptable because it is being used in what for me is the proper context. I have to admit "Xi-Flu" is growing on me though.

 

[Maynard]

I see this entirely differently but find your post insightful and interesting.

A long time ago I used to walk my Golden Retriever (who never retrieved a single golden thing by the way) on the beach in front of my house at the time. Lot's of people used to walk their dogs on that beach in the mornings, so much so in fact that the unofficial nick name of the place was called dog patch beach. By mid morning people would be at the beach so the dog walkers would be gone until the evening. One day an idiot let their very aggressive dog walk on the beach off leash and it attacked a child leaving the kid very messed up. As a result the city stopped all dog walking activities on that beach. One person (a recently released felon not that it matters) did something very stupid and as a result several people where made to pay for their actions. People had walked their dogs on that beach for decades without incident but one person does something heinous and everyone was made to suffer.

It goes that way all the time now. Somebody who is doing something that the majority of us find abhorrent and instead of punishing that one person and making a law that carries a significantly severe punishment as a deterrent for the next person considering said action we instead more often than not punish the good law abiding citizenry. This virus was created in a lab in Wuhan China. It is the Chinese virus like the Spanish Flu was the Spanish Flu et al. It isn't intended to "offend" Chinese people and ESPECIALLY Chinese Americans but then I want to know when we became a nation of people who should be censored when our very first amendment was written to say that we should never be because someone might be offended by what we say? I mean the reason we have free speech is so that we can offend each other with our ideas and words. Otherwise it is simply called speech.

I do appreciate what you are saying in that why should we say something that could might offend someone when there are other ways of communicating a thing thought idea that isn't seen as offensive but there is an exception to that line of thinking. It is that calling it anything other than the Chinese virus might could and does offend many other people. The virus came from China. The country of China should be held accountable for it's release onto the rest of the world wether it was intentional or not. Many people believe that by calling it the Chinese Virus that it keeps the understanding that the Chinese govt is responsible for this catastrophe in front of the public eye and in the minds of our politicians.

That is what I think anyways but I do appreciate where you are coming from.

You keep saying the virus was created in a lab and “that’s just a fact”. No it isn’t.

 

[KINGS17]

 

[King'sPawn]

Just want to be clear about something. If you check my posts in this thread I almost always refer to the virus as COVID-19 or coronavirus. I defend the right of others or myself to call the virus by another name if it fits in their context. When Chinese propaganda is the topic of a discussion, I tend to believe the term "Chinese Virus" is more acceptable because it is being used in what for me is the proper context. I have to admit "Xi-Flu" is growing on me though.

My apologies, I didn't mean to mischaracterize your usage.

I disagree that Chinese Virus is more acceptable, but at the same time feel debating the specifics is going off point and spawn an argument.

 

[KINGS17]

My apologies, I didn't mean to mischaracterize your usage.

I disagree that Chinese Virus is more acceptable, but at the same time feel debating the specifics is going off point and spawn an argument.

No worries KP. As always I appreciate your point of view. You're wrong about the Kopitar contract though, and we should have traded Carter. ;-P

 

[jfont]

You gotta love these lectures on "racism" from people whose remaining presidential candidates both called 1/2 the country racists based on their vote in the last presidential election.

You know the term has become meaningless when the left has to keep staging incidents to prove it exists.

since you went there...and not confining it to just the coronavirus, we can talk politics.

I don't know if I've seen what your are saying above so please send me a credible link where they said half the country is racist.

You need not look anywhere why racism is prevalent. Just look at the president's MO. I mean just google "trump racist statements" and you will have dozens of hits from credible news sources. Not to mention you've heard it yourself in the news (except if you watch fox news). Truly embarrassing...

 

[Lt Dan]

It's not really skeletor if he isn't insulting somebody

 

[Bandit]

i'm staying out of this conversation for the most part but i've noticed a lot of people don't like referring to the chinese govt like this while simultaneously wanting to call the disease by its "official name"

It doesn’t bother me if you want to point out their government is communist but it’s kinda redundant, no? You don’t say “The Democracy of the United States of America” do you?

 

[Bandit]

Is it ok to laugh at Kung Flu? Asking for a friend who got a chuckle out of it.

I prefer Winnie The Flu just because it’s aimed directly at their asshat leader. Plus he hates it, win win.

 

[Fishhead]

So many strains come from so many countries that calling things by their origin would be an exercise in futility. Many influenza strains originate in the USA, along with others in the past. This goes especially for disease caused by localized organisms, such as typhoid, diptheria, and so on. I worked in applied science in various fields over the last 25 years, from bench chemistry and bioassay to pharma development and production. From a science standpoint, it's always preferable to call something by it's strain, like H1N1, H5N1/HPAI, and so on. That way you know exactly what someone is talking about.

I find when someone uses a term like Chinese Virus, it means one of two things:

1. They are not versed in the sciences where common names are shunned (there are very important reasons for this). I would take anything that person says with respect to science with caution.

2. They know it will irritate other people and are trolling and/or have some agenda they want to push.

Either way, when I see that term I just pretty much stop reading there. Nothing against the people that use terms like that, but it just sounds uneducated to me and I'm hardly going to value their opinion on anything scientific at that point.

 

[Legionnaire]

Some of you are embarrassing and prove why and how socialism is a shit ideal.

Dumbasses worried about racist slights and a minuscule number of attacks when this is a major opportunity for the Chinese people to push for reform and more freedom while the spotlight is on their corrupt government.

 

[tny760]

vons wouldn't even let me in the door without a face covering now. pulled my sweater up and kept walking

spent more time standing in line than ever before because they have 5 people standing around up front directing people instead of ringing people out and getting them out the door. every other person isn't even wearing their mask correctly or is adjusting it and touching their nose/mouth every 10 seconds. completely lost the plot.

 

[KINGS17]

So many strains come from so many countries that calling things by their origin would be an exercise in futility. Many influenza strains originate in the USA, along with others in the past. This goes especially for disease caused by localized organisms, such as typhoid, diptheria, and so on. I worked in applied science in various fields over the last 25 years, from bench chemistry and bioassay to pharma development and production. From a science standpoint, it's always preferable to call something by it's strain, like H1N1, H5N1/HPAI, and so on. That way you know exactly what someone is talking about.

I find when someone uses a term like Chinese Virus, it means one of two things:

1. They are not versed in the sciences where common names are shunned (there are very important reasons for this). I would take anything that person says with respect to science with caution.

2. They know it will irritate other people and are trolling and/or have some agenda they want to push.

Either way, when I see that term I just pretty much stop reading there. Nothing against the people that use terms like that, but it just sounds uneducated to me and I'm hardly going to value their opinion on anything scientific at that point.

That's why context is important for me. For the public I think COVID-19 is precise enough.

Now that @Bandit has come up with "Winnie The Flu" I am torn. I may ask someone far more talented than I to come up with some lyrics for a new song entitled, "Winnie Xi Flu." I think the evidence is starting to pile up showing Xi is somewhat of a villain in all this.

 

[Bandit]

That's why context is important for me. For the public I think COVID-19 is precise enough.

Now that @Bandit has come up with "Winnie The Flu" I am torn. I may ask someone far more talented than I to come up with some lyrics for a new song entitled, "Winnie Xi Flu." I think the evidence is starting to pile up showing Xi is somewhat of a villain in all this.

That wasn’t mine, I think I actually saw it here a month or two ago honestly.

 

[KINGS17]

Some of you are embarrassing and prove why and how socialism is a shit ideal.

Dumbasses worried about racist slights and a minuscule number of attacks when this is a major opportunity for the Chinese people to push for reform and more freedom while the spotlight is on their corrupt government.

I agree. How many times have we hoped for the Chinese people to become free?

 

[HeadInjury]

Hmmm, antibody testing in LA County, suggests that 4.1% have had the virus, which is 28 to 55 times more than positive tests thus far.

Coronavirus antibody testing shows LA County outbreak is up to 55 times bigger than reported cases

I'm not sure how the 28 to 55 times range is determined. The article says they estimate that there are between 221,000 and 442,000 actual cases, compared to the 8,000 positive tests.

But, if true, the real death rate would be between 0.13% and 0.27% which is not much more than the common flu.

 

[Matt13]

DP

 

[Matt13]

Yes

How are you feeling?

Did you beat the virus like Norstrom beat Forsberg's spleen?

I'd rather have Coronavirus again than another day of the kids being home.

Im 100%, waiting for testing results again to know its out of my system so I can start donating blood.

 

[HookKing]

That wasn’t mine, I think I actually saw it here a month or two ago honestly.

It came from me which came from laowhy86 on youtube. He's been posting videos for years on life as an American in China married to a Chinese wife. They had to leave about a year ago or so because of Xi and his reign of terror.