TSN: How the coronavirus could impact the NHL’s bottom line UPD: NHL Season suspended MOD Warning post139

[Raccoon Jesus]

Hmmm, antibody testing in LA County, suggests that 4.1% have had the virus, which is 28 to 55 times more than positive tests thus far.

Coronavirus antibody testing shows LA County outbreak is up to 55 times bigger than reported cases

I'm not sure how the 28 to 55 times range is determined. The article says they estimate that there are between 221,000 and 442,000 actual cases, compared to the 8,000 positive tests.

But, if true, the real death rate would be between 0.13% and 0.27% which is not much more than the common flu.

Good news, and 863 representative people is a start...but we're gonna need much much more than that.

NYC has I think 14000 lined up? Was it NYC? I forget. But we really need to start getting those out to the most infected areas ASAP so we start getting a better feeling of scope. Right now we're bat spinning before throwing darts in the dark.

 

[Reaper45]

It doesn’t bother me if you want to point out their government is communist but it’s kinda redundant, no? You don’t say “The Democracy of the United States of America” do you?

Technically were a constitutional republic.

 

[tny760]

points kinda moot anyway when you consider it's officially called the people's republic of china, not just china

 

[The Tikkanen]

Are we assuming in all this that Chinese people aren't racist?

 

[crassbonanza]

It will be really interesting to look back on this in a few years and compare Sweden to the rest of the world. They decided against having a lockdown and were widely ripped by the world media, with most predicting a fantastic spike in deaths without lockdown measures. That spike never appeared and a recent study (Basic estimation-prediction techniques for Covid-19, and a prediction for Stockholm) has predicted that between 25-40% of the Stockholm population have had the virus and that the region could develop herd immunity in late May. Since most of the world chose to lockdown we are much further away from herd immunity and a vaccine appears to be many months out. It is nice that we do have somewhat of a control to analyze whether the lockdown really was the right call.

 

[Bandit]

Technically were a constitutional republic.

Don’t get technical with me...

 

[Bandit]

Are we assuming in all this that Chinese people aren't racist?

I dunno, are we assuming that with a population of 1.4 billion people that they are all the same?

 

[Bandit]

It came from me which came from laowhy86 on youtube. He's been posting videos for years on life as an American in China married to a Chinese wife. They had to leave about a year ago or so because of Xi and his reign of terror.

If we’re thinking about the same dude did you see the one where he found a job listing for the lab to help research a new dangerous virus from bats? He just showed a bunch of webpages in Chinese so what do I know but was interesting nonetheless.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It will be really interesting to look back on this in a few years and compare Sweden to the rest of the world. They decided against having a lockdown and were widely ripped by the world media, with most predicting a fantastic spike in deaths without lockdown measures. That spike never appeared and a recent study (Basic estimation-prediction techniques for Covid-19, and a prediction for Stockholm) has predicted that between 25-40% of the Stockholm population have had the virus and that the region could develop herd immunity in late May. Since most of the world chose to lockdown we are much further away from herd immunity and a vaccine appears to be many months out. It is nice that we do have somewhat of a control to analyze whether the lockdown really was the right call.

However, that's partially because as a culture, Swedes trust and listen to their government and have had the personal responsibility to socially distance themselves, especially compared to what's happened here.





You can see some Swede responses to the 2nd tweet. It's not apples to apples.

Some other great nuggets in here: Sweden Says Controversial Virus Strategy Proving Effective

"Part of that approach relies on having access to one of the world’s best-functioning health-care systems. At no stage did Sweden see a real shortage of medical equipment or hospital capacity, and tents set up as emergency care facilities around the country have mostly remained empty."

"Pomeroy pointed to some Swedish characteristics that may be helping the country deal with the current crisis. More than half of Swedish households are single-person, making social distancing easier to carry out. More people work from home than anywhere else in Europe, and everyone has access to fast Internet, which helps large chunks of the workforce stay productive away from the office.
And while many other countries have introduced strict laws, including hefty fines if people are caught breaching newly minted social-distancing laws, Swedes appear to be following such guidelines without the need for legislation. Trips from Stockholm to Gotland -- a popular vacation destination -- dropped by 96% over the Easter weekend, according to data from the country’s largest mobile operator, Telia Company. And online service Citymapper’s statistics indicate an almost 75% drop in mobility in the capital."

 

[HookKing]

If we’re thinking about the same dude did you see the one where he found a job listing for the lab to help research a new dangerous virus from bats? He just showed a bunch of webpages in Chinese so what do I know but was interesting nonetheless.

Yep. That was him.

 

[crassbonanza]

However, that's partially because as a culture, Swedes trust and listen to their government and have had the personal responsibility to socially distance themselves, especially compared to what's happened here.





You can see some Swede responses to the 2nd tweet. It's not apples to apples.

Some other great nuggets in here: Sweden Says Controversial Virus Strategy Proving Effective

"Part of that approach relies on having access to one of the world’s best-functioning health-care systems. At no stage did Sweden see a real shortage of medical equipment or hospital capacity, and tents set up as emergency care facilities around the country have mostly remained empty."

"Pomeroy pointed to some Swedish characteristics that may be helping the country deal with the current crisis. More than half of Swedish households are single-person, making social distancing easier to carry out. More people work from home than anywhere else in Europe, and everyone has access to fast Internet, which helps large chunks of the workforce stay productive away from the office.
And while many other countries have introduced strict laws, including hefty fines if people are caught breaching newly minted social-distancing laws, Swedes appear to be following such guidelines without the need for legislation. Trips from Stockholm to Gotland -- a popular vacation destination -- dropped by 96% over the Easter weekend, according to data from the country’s largest mobile operator, Telia Company. And online service Citymapper’s statistics indicate an almost 75% drop in mobility in the capital."

If you are referring to the second tweet that says the death rate rose slower in Norway than Sweden, wouldn't that be expected? The idea of the lockdown was to extend the pandemic due to concerns over the health care system being overloaded. With Sweden seemingly at a plateau and a large percent of the population gaining immunity they could be much closer to eradicating the virus locally. They did this without an economic shutdown and the predicted spike never reared it's head. The hard part of the lockdown is deciding when to open back up. Do you wait for a vaccine? I have a feeling that we will go towards herd immunity in the end because the vaccine is months out and that would mean that the extended lockdown once the curve was bent served little purpose.

Like I said though, this is probably something worth looking at in a few years once all of the data has been sifted through.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

If you are referring to the second tweet that says the death rate rose slower in Norway than Sweden, wouldn't that be expected? The idea of the lockdown was to extend the pandemic due to concerns over the health care system being overloaded. With Sweden seemingly at a plateau and a large percent of the population gaining immunity they could be much closer to eradicating the virus locally. They did this without an economic shutdown and the predicted spike never reared it's head. The hard part of the lockdown is deciding when to open back up. Do you wait for a vaccine? I have a feeling that we will go towards herd immunity in the end because the vaccine is months out and that would mean that the extended lockdown once the curve was bent served little purpose.

Like I said though, this is probably something worth looking at in a few years once all of the data has been sifted through.

Sorry I wasn't clear--was referring to the responses to the last tweet in the sequence, the one showing Sweden's deceleration in new hospitalizations. There, you have Scandanavians discussing why they were able to do with without economic shutdown yet avoid a spike and the short answer is they're responsible enough to handle it as individuals, their healthcare system rules, and their government is trustworthy and issuing that recommendation based on science rather than economy. Contrast that to here where people in other states haven't taken it seriously even now, the healthcare system is shit on a good day, and the federal government is a circus sideshow. They're considering slowly opening up as well, but it's pretty clear they'll have no problem reigning people back in if it appears problematic. Here? Hahahahahahahahahahaha imagine telling the protesters that this thing is getting worse again so we have to go back to safer measures, or hell, anyone in the federal government even bothering to backtrack at all.

I agree though that the vaccine is too far out. And recent studies are showing with increasing levels of evidence that more people are infected than we thought. There are still just too many questions unanswered that we'll hopefully have answers for in the next month.

 

[The Tikkanen]

All the American public needs is a major news story to divert their attention away from Covid. Then bam, you can open it back up for people to go to work.

 

[crassbonanza]

Sorry I wasn't clear--was referring to the responses to the last tweet in the sequence, the one showing Sweden's deceleration in new hospitalizations. There, you have Scandanavians discussing why they were able to do with without economic shutdown yet avoid a spike and the short answer is they're responsible enough to handle it as individuals, their healthcare system rules, and their government is trustworthy and issuing that recommendation based on science rather than economy. Contrast that to here where people in other states haven't taken it seriously even now, the healthcare system is shit on a good day, and the federal government is a circus sideshow. They're considering slowly opening up as well, but it's pretty clear they'll have no problem reigning people back in if it appears problematic. Here? Hahahahahahahahahahaha imagine telling the protesters that this thing is getting worse again so we have to go back to safer measures, or hell, anyone in the federal government even bothering to backtrack at all.

I agree though that the vaccine is too far out. And recent studies are showing with increasing levels of evidence that more people are infected than we thought. There are still just too many questions unanswered that we'll hopefully have answers for in the next month.

Yeah, the antibody tests coming out of LA, San Jose and Stockholm are all pointing towards this being much more prevalent and significantly less deadly than we initially thought. I do believe the flawed Imperial model is the main reason behind the lockdown decision made by most leaders around the world and it will be interesting if we look back on that decision. I read an article the other day that showed the predictions by Professor Fergusson regarding the death totals from recent outbreaks. He over estimated the totals by orders of magnitudes on each one and we may have based our decisions off of his numbers. I'm not protesting the lockdown, I just find the whole scenario really interesting. The move to basically shut down the world is not an easy one to make and it is going to be great to study for decades to come.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yeah, the antibody tests coming out of LA, San Jose and Stockholm are all pointing towards this being much more prevalent and significantly less deadly than we initially thought. I do believe the flawed Imperial model is the main reason behind the lockdown decision made by most leaders around the world and it will be interesting if we look back on that decision. I read an article the other day that showed the predictions by Professor Fergusson regarding the death totals from recent outbreaks. He over estimated the totals by orders of magnitudes on each one and we may have based our decisions off of his numbers. I'm not protesting the lockdown, I just find the whole scenario really interesting. The move to basically shut down the world is not an easy one to make and it is going to be great to study for decades to come.

I'm still all for the initial decision. Given limited info, you HAVE to err on the side of caution imo.

But it was always a fascinating study, even at the moment it became an issue.

 

[tny760]

All the American public needs is a major news story to divert their attention away from Covid. Then bam, you can open it back up for people to go to work.

sadly i think there's some truth to this

i'd like to see the media held responsible for the misinformation being pushed left and right about this but that's never going to happen

 

[Herby]

sadly i think there's some truth to this

i'd like to see the media held responsible for the misinformation being pushed left and right about this but that's never going to happen

The media in this country is disgraceful, not shocking our national embarrassment has dropped the ball on covering this event from the get-go. It makes me nauseous how arrogant they all are, going on twitter to kiss each others butts anytime they feel wronged and proclaiming themselves as heroic. They are as awful as Hollywood.

 

[Reaper45]

sadly i think there's some truth to this

i'd like to see the media held responsible for the misinformation being pushed left and right about this but that's never going to happen

They'll just play the martyr, again.

 

[jfont]

More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study

 

[KINGS17]

The problem here is that this is not a true study. It is an analysis of carefully chosen patient records. All of these patients were hospitalized and the analysis was performed after the fact. Doctors caring for the patients made clinical and not experimental decisions. The "control" group was made up of patients whom doctors chose not to treat with ANY therapies upon entering the hospital. Why not? Common sense would lead us to conclude that doctors assessed the patients and thought they were better off than those who were given at least a single treatment. It's the job of the analysts to rule out that possibility. Furthermore, the sample size is concerning. Across the entire VA hospital system, these researchers were not able to find more than 400 patients to analyze with fewer than 75 deaths? That does not make sense. Either the virus is far less serious than is being reported or there was cherry picking.

We have to wait for definitive data that was responsibly collected and analyzed before making any real determinations. Blind studies with various drug combinations and placebos are required. This is no better than the anecdotal evidence President Trump was touting in favor of using hydroxychloroquine. He can probably find the medical records of 75 cases where the patient made a "miraculous" recovery.

 

[ricardfromage]

I think I understand what you're saying, but ultimately I disagree.

If we call out only blatant racism, then frankly, racists can use subtext to intimidate the minorities they hate, simply because it's not overt. As it is, there are racists who use the term Chinese virus to perpetuate their attitudes and there are people, like K17, who use it for, lack of a better term, preference. Have a Chinese person hear it, and they will still feel targeted/intimidated all the same, with good reason. Sure, K17 has never said "I hate Chinese people" but if a term is used in a casual attack, no matter what, it brings people up on the defense. And it's AVOIDABLE.

I'm white and male as can be. I've been fortunate in my life where I haven't had to endure racism, sexism, age-ism, able-ism, or any other -ism. I'm someone who won't suffer from the "as long as it's not overt, it's not a problem" mentality. It still perpetuates this cycle of mistreatment and cynicism, and when the affected parties get frustrated, it reinforces the attitude of "this group of people is a problem"

I'm trying not to have a sociology lecture here, but as RJ pointed out, he has Middle Eastern descent. I'm sure he can provide you multiple times in his life he's had subliminal racism thrown his way. If you have a female partner, I'm sure she can tell you about sexism she's endured, even if it's just making a little bit less money than a male doing the same job.

Granted, just because something is unfair doesn't mean it needs to be labeled as discriminatory, nor should non-PC people be called as racists - but if you use a word or gesture, knowing the context of it (whether or not YOU feel it), you need to be aware of how people perceive it. Whether or not you care about the perception is up to you.

Well said and as always interesting.

Here is where I have some contention with your position. I haven't seen or heard anyone calling this the virus caused by the people of china nor have I heard it referred to being an inert virus that just happened to come to life in a land mass we call china. I take issue with referring to a place as the definition of it's people. I have traveled extensively in my life and I mean all over the world extensively and as an American/Canadian (migrant) (mutt) I have been overtly discriminated against as a result. Every country tends to have it's own "reasons" for hating "disliking etc" Americans and the majority of them come from their own media bias as well as a few bad eggs. Once people let their guards down and get to know you they seem to be open to either really liking you or in most cases not really caring. My point is that as a citizen of America (proudly) people treat me a certain way simply because they are taught to not like us due to their media and or some political disagreement. My point is also that with VERY RARE (not yelling just trying to illustrate a point) exception the people that I have met in my travels all want to come see America and are awed by what they are shown to be it's beauty (sadly most tourist want to go to Venice beach to see place that inspired "Bay Watch" or the Hollywood walk of fame when pressed.

I know I ramble and always have so I am aware of it and do truly apologize for it. I guess I believe that we should never censor anyones speech with the exception of the addedge if yelling fire in a movie theatre sort of thing. Even discussing people who would discriminate against others due to anything as trite and petty as the color of their skin or where they happened to have been born or any other reason. I think it is a great benefit to know who those people are in my life/world so that I can guard myself against their nonsense and any potential problems that may come as a result.
I live in walking distance from Ruby Ridge. It is now called Ruby Creek and the handful of people (I mean maybe 10 people live up that road) want to change it again to be something even more innocuous. I also live in walking distance from where the largest white supremacist group outside of the KKK in America used to have it's headquarters. They were just a group of people who liked to party and get loud on the weekends or at least that is what they appeared to be. They began making their presence known and what their beliefs were and they got throttled everywhere they went by everyone up here. They (a couple of them) where quite literally run out of town. People also called the fed govt on them who stepped in and cleaned up the rest of their mess.
Without knowing who those people where and what they believed in they might have gotten a stronghold up here and eventually been a legitimate threat to the people of Northern Idaho. As it was they were a pretty serious problem.

I prefer to know where someone is coming from so they can be dealt with if need dictates it to be so. However, I believe that we as a people need to stop identifying where somebody comes from as even having the slightest potential to be seen as some sort of racism. I know this might sound racist but I truly don't intend it to be but even after having been to Japan and South Korea more than a couple of times I truly cannot tell the difference in their appearance to be able to discern where any of the people I met where from. The Chinese people I know and met look the same to me as the Japanese people that I know and met as do the Korean's. I am not saying that they are all the same but I will say that people confuse me for being Hispanic, Middle Eastern, Caucasian and of Mediterranean descent and everyone says that Canadians and Americans look alike. I don't take offense to any of those identifications nor do I believe that anyone means anything other than the statement of fact according to their own experiences. I look like I came out of the corn fields of Saskatchewan when after immigrating I grew up in SoCal. My father was Mohawk and German and my mother was Irish and Blackfoot. I am a true mutt and proud of it. I don't believe that calling me a Canadian or an American makes me responsible for any of the atrocities that either of those countries have committed and when people say that they "hate Americans" I don't take it personally until they make me do so which never seems to happen.

Put me in the intent is everything category I guess. I know it sounds racist but it is a fact, I have a very difficult time telling the difference between the nationalities of the peoples of Asia as I do the peoples of Africa, South America (Central too) and all of Scandinavia. The CCP which to clear up any confusion stands for the "Chinese Communist Party" is responsible for the origins of this virus. It is in no way racist to recognize this fact in describing the virus as such in my opinion. Anyone who acts out against anyone based on their race should be dealt with swiftly and severely. Calling this the Chinese Virus is a simple statement of fact and nothing more nor should it be seen as being intended to do so. At least that is how I see it. I am proud that I am an American and never shy away from that fact. If in the end it turns out to be factual that the Prof from Harvard and Faucci Gates and others are the ones who had this virus made for nefarious reasons then I will continue to be just as proud of my country but also be more understanding of those who are looking for someone to blame.

 

[ricardfromage]

More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study

MARILYNN MARCHIONE a self proclaimed "never Trumper" who has written more articles bashing the current administration than not. I would say in this case consider the source.

 

[jfont]

MARILYNN MARCHIONE a self proclaimed "never Trumper" who has written more articles bashing the current administration then most. A quick search through her past works say all that most would need to know about her any Trump leanings. In Seattle she is seen by many to be a queen of yellow journalism *See Seattle Post Intelligencer article*. There are more studies in support of the HQ/Zinc/AZ therapy than this one report bashing the potential therapeutic value of this drug combination. Does this writers political leanings mean that she is without certainty wrong? No, she could be right but she is absolutely judging by her previous work looking for any reason to speak poorly of anything that our current President has to say on ANY matter. It makes me very suspicious of anything that she writes.

Politics aside, what in her article looks to be partisan. She's a science writer.. Science does not have partisan leaning. If you disagree with her findings, post some facts with links. But right now, I would take an award winning AP medical writer. And this is the latest study on those drugs.

I know some here like to bash the media but AP does have their standards. It is sad that even facts and truths are politicized just because its not convenient to their tribal beliefs.

I am somewhat part of this science field (Engineer). Science will always go with the facts. If that study is false, then I don't have a problem dismissing it. But her report should stand on its own. It is a shame that some here think it should be about politics first.

 

[jfont]

Here's another article from the LA Times.. I know another bastion of liberal journalism.
Malaria drugs fail to help coronavirus patients in controlled studies

The researchers found that treatment with hydroxychloroquine did not reduce the likelihood that a COVID-19 patient would die or be admitted to the intensive care unit within a week of hospital admission. Nor did it drive down a patient’s likelihood of developing serious breathing problems.

Hydroxychloroquine did, however, raise some risks. Eight of the 84 patients who got hydroxychloroquine experienced changes in heart rhythm that required discontinuation of the drug, and another patient developed a related heart-rhythm disorder.

I personally wish the drug would work

 

[jfont]

Gilead seems to have a breakthrough with one of their drugs...