TSN: How the coronavirus could impact the NHL’s bottom line UPD: NHL Season suspended MOD Warning post139

[LA Kings Cup Champs]

And if the U.S. numbers don't blow your mind enough, just look at the UK numbers. They have:

15808 Closed Cases
15464 Deaths
344 Recoveries

Their death rate is currently 97.82%

Wrap your head around that one.

 

[tny760]

And if the U.S. numbers don't blow your mind enough, just look at the UK numbers. They have:

15808 Closed Cases
15464 Deaths
344 Recoveries

Their death rate is currently 97.82%

Wrap your head around that one.

 

[Fishhead]

This probably isn't helpful because I don't remember the source (it was credible though)--but those results apparently jived well with what Germany and some others have found with random studies. I'll see if I can dig it up.

Yea I think this is going to be the general trend, where we see masses of small studies which aren't perfect in design. If you have 100 studies with suspect sampling and procedures but they all point towards the same thing, it's pretty safe to say they have a pretty good degree of accuracy. Today I saw a quick study in Massachusetts today where they went out to the street and tested 200 random, willing people. 30% of them had antibodies, so they are presently infected or were before. Out of those 64 people, half were completely asymptomatic and half had such minor symptoms they didn't realize they had it. Even though it wasn't a great study, it points in the same direction. The numbers still need to be taken with a grain of salt, but once you start getting a lot of grains that say the same thing you have to take notice. The main issue is patience is running short and people want answers and some semblance of control but it's still going to take a while to get that. If we keep getting small bits of data we will have a good data set before long and make informed decisions.

I had bronchitis for about a week, it just went away. No fever, no dry cough, no shortness of breath, nothing other than coughing up crap for 7 days. Could it be COVID? About 25% of people with it have reported wet coughs with no fever. My wife has the same thing, both kids do too, but even under normal circumstances it isn't anything that would send us to a doctor. The dangerous part is I have no idea if we have it and no way to easily get tested. It is literally impossible to make an informed decision without knowing if you have/have had it or not. All of these piecemeal studies we are starting to see are making it clear we need to go one of two directions. Either testing becomes easy and available to everyone (like we were told would be the case over a month ago), or every resource is put into fast-tracking treatment/vaccine development. Right now everything is waffling back and forth. An election year was the absolute worst time for this to happen, because few elected officials want to pick a clear path. No decision made = no blame in their eyes.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

And if the U.S. numbers don't blow your mind enough, just look at the UK numbers. They have:

15808 Closed Cases
15464 Deaths
344 Recoveries

Their death rate is currently 97.82%

Wrap your head around that one.

Their numbers are arguably even more incomplete than ours because of the national shitshow of Boris Johnson bravado early on. Same thing started to happen in even Sweden until they tightened up, they decided on a similiar 'herd immunity let's get it over with' approach until the projected load became unmanageable.

Might help you to cross-reference with some place like Iceland: Iceland Coronavirus: 1,760 Cases and 9 Deaths - Worldometer

They've tested about 12% of their total population and are running the most thorough testing in the world. Their numbers show 99% of cases are mild, and that only 1% of closed cases ended in death. Many of the countries with thorough testing are showing the same--though that might be a chicken-or-egg thing since that also means they have their shit together.

Italy in contrast took a huge beating for pretty obvious reasons.

I'd like to think our reaction outside of NYC has been more like Germany just minus testing (thanks to state government, no thanks to federal). We need to get there in short order and I don't think there's any way in hell we see those crazy high numbers unless everyone just lets loose right now or some of those loony anti-science governors elsewhere (SD, Florida) continue to do nothing, and that's coming from someone who has been pretty pessimistic so far.

But like you said, and everyone seems to agree, until we start getting better data, there's nothing actionable that's 'clear.' We're all just throwing darts on what's critical mass for public safety vs. what's critical mass for the economy and "hope" is a f***ing awful strategy. But IMO the longer we can hold out the better.

 

[LA Kings Cup Champs]

Their numbers are arguably even more incomplete than ours because of the national shitshow of Boris Johnson bravado early on. Same thing started to happen in even Sweden until they tightened up, they decided on a similiar 'herd immunity let's get it over with' approach until the projected load became unmanageable.

Might help you to cross-reference with some place like Iceland: Iceland Coronavirus: 1,760 Cases and 9 Deaths - Worldometer

They've tested about 12% of their total population and are running the most thorough testing in the world. Their numbers show 99% of cases are mild, and that only 1% of closed cases ended in death. Many of the countries with thorough testing are showing the same--though that might be a chicken-or-egg thing since that also means they have their shit together.

Italy in contrast took a huge beating for pretty obvious reasons.

I'd like to think our reaction outside of NYC has been more like Germany just minus testing (thanks to state government, no thanks to federal). We need to get there in short order and I don't think there's any way in hell we see those crazy high numbers unless everyone just lets loose right now or some of those loony anti-science governors elsewhere (SD, Florida) continue to do nothing, and that's coming from someone who has been pretty pessimistic so far.

But like you said, and everyone seems to agree, until we start getting better data, there's nothing actionable that's 'clear.' We're all just throwing darts on what's critical mass for public safety vs. what's critical mass for the economy and "hope" is a f***ing awful strategy. But IMO the longer we can hold out the better.

The longer the better, indeed!

Just so you know, I have been following the top 30-40 countries for a month now, so I am well aware of Iceland's stat. Iceland currently is running at a 0.69% death rate, which is a great juxtaposition compared to the UK. I totally understand that the numbers are wholly incomplete, at this time, and that new variables can enter the equation at any point in time (as we are still learning about this thing everyday), but any new variables does not take away from the fact that there will be FAR MORE deaths than 60,000 is this country.

You mentioned Germany. Germany has basically run a flawless plan with testing, isolating and contact tracing right from the start. America has still not made these ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL things a top priority. So to put it mildly, WE ARE F**K*D!!!

For you to compare us to Germany in any way is just laughable! Not only did we not start out on the right foot, but we are, in NO WAY locking down this country as much as we should be. There is a study that I heard about a couple of days ago that tracks peoples cell phone movements and our country is currently getting a C-. Germany is getting an A. WE ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO GERMANY! And I believe that our 37% against Germany's 0.69% tells us all that we need to know about how well we are social-distancing and staying-at-home. And with Trump telling states to "Rise Up" against the very thing that will save their lives; we are in for a long HARD fight. And many will die!

 

[tny760]

The longer the better, indeed!

Just so you know, I have been following the top 30-40 countries for a month now, so I am well aware of Iceland's stat. Iceland currently is running at a 0.69% death rate, which is a great juxtaposition compared to the UK. I totally understand that the numbers are wholly incomplete, at this time, and that new variables can enter the equation at any point in time (as we are still learning about this thing everyday), but that those things still do not take away from the fact that there will be FAR MORE deaths than 60,000 is this country.

You mentioned Germany. Germany has basically run a flawless plan with testing, isolating and contact tracing right from the start. America has still not made these ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL things a top priority. So to put it mildly, WE ARE F**K*D!!!

For you to compare us to Germany in any way is just laughable! Not only did we not start out on the right foot, but we are, in NO WAY locking down this country as much as we should be. There is a study that I heard about a couple of days ago that tracks peoples cell phone movements and our country is currently getting a C-. Germany is getting an A. WE ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO GERMANY! And I believe that our 37% against Germany's 0.69% tells us all that we need to know about how well we are social-distancing and staying-at-home. And with Trump telling states to "Rise Up" against the very thing that will save their lives; we are in for a long HARD fight. And many will die!

one would think that when their data set includes 0.69, 37, and 97% death rates, their conclusion would be that their data set is flawed and their conclusions are wrong, but no, you double down on it and extrapolate data over time from those numbers...

 

[LA Kings Cup Champs]

one would think that when their data set includes 0.69, 37, and 97% death rates, their conclusion would be that their data set is flawed and their conclusions are wrong, but no, you double down on it and extrapolate data over time from those numbers...

You are just regurgitating the numbers that I have given you. Why don't you spend a little time studying the numbers before giving any kind of objection.

And, just so you know, the global death rate, as it now stands, is at 21%, and has been for the past 10 days. So that is the largest sampling that I can grab to paint a picture of what this virus looks like, currently.

Also, I have not extrapolated any data. I have presented the numbers and then given a simple projection based on those numbers (fact). If the data changes in the future, the numbers will change. But I decided to share these numbers because they have begun to stabilize, so predictions can start to be calculated. Two weeks ago the numbers were moving around and having BIG swings.

 

[Bandit]

Who would have guessed a couple months ago that bitching about Doughty’s powerplay slap shot and Lewis’ hands of stone were the “good” times here this year?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

And, just so you know, the global death rate, as it now stands, is at 21%, and has been for the past 10 days. So that is the largest sampling that I can grab to paint a picture of what this virus looks like, currently.

Also, I have not extrapolated any data. I have presented the numbers and then given a simple projection based on those numbers (fact). If the data changes in the future, the numbers will change. But I decided to share these numbers because they have begun to stabilize, so predictions can start to be calculated. Two weeks ago the numbers were moving around and having BIG swings.

In short, that's the problem with your commitment to this projection and conclusion. It's an overreaction based on incomplete data at best, completely flawed and inconsistent data most likely.

To the first point, that's because there are too many active cases that have not run their course. The numbers will absolutely change in the future (not "if") because of 1. testing inconsistencies; 2. testing lack; 3. inconsistent recording of deaths, amongst other things. How can those numbers be 'stabilized' if one is showing nearly 0% death rate and one is nearly 100% death rate? That's literally the entire spectrum of outcomes.

I'm not a statistician and I can definitely admit I have a million questions. You admitted you're not a statistician yet you're running this thing to its worst possible conclusion and lashing out at anyone else questioning the demonstrably false premises. What exactly are you hoping to gain here? This is honestly one of the most reasonable forums I've read with respect to every aspect of this virus, even the political dissent amongst members is as reasonable as you can find on the internet (it's just been deleted because politics), so you're not likely to find an echo chamber of people nodding at your projection, particularly when there are people making careers out of projections that have better support.

I think your first point before we landed all the way over here was 'why is no one questioning the death rate' because it looked absurdly high--those reasons I listed above are mostly why. The worst possible #s seem to approach 5% unless you get an overwhelmed system like Italy.

Anyway, in the coming weeks we'll start to get better data--we'll hopefully start to find out if the virus is more prevalent if we thought, meaning it's even more transmissible/contagious than anything ever before, but much less lethal than we thought (with proper reverence to the deceased, of course); or we'll start to find out the opposite, it's less transmissable, but more lethal (seems doubtful based on what we know).

 

[LA Kings Cup Champs]

In short, that's the problem with your commitment to this projection and conclusion. It's an overreaction based on incomplete data at best, completely flawed and inconsistent data most likely.

To the first point, that's because there are too many active cases that have not run their course. The numbers will absolutely change in the future (not "if") because of 1. testing inconsistencies; 2. testing lack; 3. inconsistent recording of deaths, amongst other things. How can those numbers be 'stabilized' if one is showing nearly 0% death rate and one is nearly 100% death rate? That's literally the entire spectrum of outcomes.

I'm not a statistician and I can definitely admit I have a million questions. You admitted you're not a statistician yet you're running this thing to its worst possible conclusion and lashing out at anyone else questioning the demonstrably false premises. What exactly are you hoping to gain here? This is honestly one of the most reasonable forums I've read with respect to every aspect of this virus, even the political dissent amongst members is as reasonable as you can find on the internet (it's just been deleted because politics), so you're not likely to find an echo chamber of people nodding at your projection, particularly when there are people making careers out of projections that have better support.

I think your first point before we landed all the way over here was 'why is no one questioning the death rate' because it looked absurdly high--those reasons I listed above are mostly why. The worst possible #s seem to approach 5% unless you get an overwhelmed system like Italy.

Anyway, in the coming weeks we'll start to get better data--we'll hopefully start to find out if the virus is more prevalent if we thought, meaning it's even more transmissible/contagious than anything ever before, but much less lethal than we thought (with proper reverence to the deceased, of course); or we'll start to find out the opposite, it's less transmissable, but more lethal (seems doubtful based on what we know).

Wow!!! There are so many misunderstandings and misconceptions in your post that I have am not even going to try and "unpack". My whole point of this conversation was to offer you guys and insight of what virus is CURRENTLY doing, and not what the "professionals" are saying it is doing. I have no dog in this fight. I am just distributing information. I originally want some positive feedback to check my thoughts against other thoughts (the day you start believing yourself and stop listening to others is the day you go insane), because I want to check its strength. I was not trying to say that I am right, but all arguments against it were futile. If someone want to PM there ideas on the numbers, I welcome it, but if this subject approached in this way is not what is wanted then I will take my injuries else well.

I hope that you all heed the warnings and the scientics and stay at home and only go out when you ABSOLUTLY have to.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Wow!!! There are so many misunderstandings and misconceptions in your post that I have am not even going to try and "unpack". My whole point of this conversation was to offer you guys and insight of what virus is CURRENTLY doing, and not what the "professionals" are saying it is doing. I have no dog in this fight. I am just distributing information. I originally want some positive feedback to check my thoughts against other thoughts (the day you start believing yourself and stop listening to others is the day you go insane), because I want to check its strength. I was not trying to say that I am right, but all arguments against it were futile. If someone want to PM there ideas on the numbers, I welcome it, but if this subject approached in this way is not what is wanted then I will take my injuries else well.

I hope that you all heed the warnings and the scientics and stay at home and only go out when you ABSOLUTLY have to.

No offense intended. I just think you're putting a whole lot of stock in faulty numbers is all. I know you mean well, so I'll stop there, because ultimately we agree on the endpoint for now--stay home.

 

[Sparky206]

Wow!!! There are so many misunderstandings and misconceptions in your post that I have am not even going to try and "unpack". My whole point of this conversation was to offer you guys and insight of what virus is CURRENTLY doing, and not what the "professionals" are saying it is doing. I have no dog in this fight. I am just distributing information. I originally want some positive feedback to check my thoughts against other thoughts (the day you start believing yourself and stop listening to others is the day you go insane), because I want to check its strength. I was not trying to say that I am right, but all arguments against it were futile. If someone want to PM there ideas on the numbers, I welcome it, but if this subject approached in this way is not what is wanted then I will take my injuries else well.

I hope that you all heed the warnings and the scientics and stay at home and only go out when you ABSOLUTLY have to.

Your data is flawed because there is a lag rate between deaths being reported compared to recoveries being reported.

Go look at the data for Australia, a month ago the numbers showed a death rate of 15% because the majority of cases had not had an outcome, so the reported deaths will seem high compared to the small number who has recovered.

A month later after more than 50% of cases have reached an outcome, the death rate is at 1.65%. Its just a lag between death and recovery outcomes. Patient A can catch it on the same day as Patient B, Patient A can be dead in a week and have his number added to the death column while Patient B takes 4 weeks to have his number added to the recovery column

 

[Maynard]

Your data is flawed because there is a lag rate between deaths being reported compared to recoveries being reported.

Go look at the data for Australia, a month ago the numbers showed a death rate of 15% because the majority of cases had not had an outcome, so the reported deaths will seem high compared to the small number who has recovered.

A month later after more than 50% of cases have reached an outcome, the death rate is at 1.65%. Its just a lag between death and recovery outcomes. Patient A can catch it on the same day as Patient B, Patient A can be dead in a week and have his number added to the death column while Patient B takes 4 weeks to have his number added to the recovery column

Sorry man, his model can’t be questioned. He’s not insisting that he’s right, he’s merely saying that his post is a repository for incontrovertible truth and should be pinned for future study and analysis.

 

[Herby]

I thought it was social distancing, and now it's being forced to stay home, period? This just gets more and more bizarre.

I was up in Northern MI the past couple of weeks living the Mike Richards life, but Whitmer is legit crazy and overstepping her authority. It was a nice day a few days ago and I took my boat out fishing and had to deal with an overbearing state official, they normally just try and catch people fishing without a license but now they are asking why I am out fishing, and why I am here. I'm sorry but someone going to a home that they own and going fishing by themselves is not irresponsible. And on top of the ridiculous restrictions in MI, you have the governor of NJ saying that "He didn't think about the Bill of Rights" when he locked down his state. I hate to sound like a 7 year old but "It's a free country" still does mean something, even in a flu season on steroids.

 

[Maynard]

I thought it was social distancing, and now it's being forced to stay home, period? This just gets more and more bizarre.

I was up in Northern MI the past couple of weeks living the Mike Richards life, but Whitmer is legit crazy and overstepping her authority. It was a nice day a few days ago and I took my boat out fishing and had to deal with an overbearing state official, they normally just try and catch people fishing without a license but now they are asking why I am out fishing, and why I am here. I'm sorry but someone going to a home that they own and going fishing by themselves is not irresponsible. And on top of the ridiculous restrictions in MI, you have the governor of NJ saying that "He didn't think about the Bill of Rights" when he locked down his state. I hate to sound like a 7 year old but "It's a free country" still does mean something, even in a flu season on steroids.

40,000 deaths in six weeks, a bunch of varying projections based on incomplete data, and a fair bit of fear has everyone freaking out. Personally, I don’t mind going a little overboard with enforcement of distancing regulations, just until we can get a clear picture of what we’re dealing with. It does seem weird that someone would bother you while you’re fishing though.

 

[KINGS17]

I thought it was social distancing, and now it's being forced to stay home, period? This just gets more and more bizarre.

I was up in Northern MI the past couple of weeks living the Mike Richards life, but Whitmer is legit crazy and overstepping her authority. It was a nice day a few days ago and I took my boat out fishing and had to deal with an overbearing state official, they normally just try and catch people fishing without a license but now they are asking why I am out fishing, and why I am here. I'm sorry but someone going to a home that they own and going fishing by themselves is not irresponsible. And on top of the ridiculous restrictions in MI, you have the governor of NJ saying that "He didn't think about the Bill of Rights" when he locked down his state. I hate to sound like a 7 year old but "It's a free country" still does mean something, even in a flu season on steroids.

Dude, you do understand why you can use a row boat, but not a motor boat though, right?

Uh yeah, neither do I.

 

[crassbonanza]

40,000 deaths in six weeks, a bunch of varying projections based on incomplete data, and a fair bit of fear has everyone freaking out. Personally, I don’t mind going a little overboard with enforcement of distancing regulations, just until we can get a clear picture of what we’re dealing with. It does seem weird that someone would bother you while you’re fishing though.

It seems like all of these new regulations are providing diminishing returns though. Banning motor boat use, closing the gardening section at wal-mart. filling in skate parks with sand, closing walking paths, etc. It seems almost like pandemic theatre with everyone in power jumping all over themselves to try to see who can be toughest on Covid for their next election campaign. The timing of all of this seems to prove that point, because the curve has been bent, the healthcare system is actually severely underwhelmed and most states are approaching or have passed the peak. Why are they throwing out even more regulations at this point?

 

[tny760]

It seems like all of these new regulations are providing diminishing returns though. Banning motor boat use, closing the gardening section at wal-mart. filling in skate parks with sand, closing walking paths, etc. It seems almost like pandemic theatre with everyone in power jumping all over themselves to try to see who can be toughest on Covid for their next election campaign. The timing of all of this seems to prove that point, because the curve has been bent, the healthcare system is actually severely underwhelmed and most states are approaching or have passed the peak. Why are they throwing out even more regulations at this point?

i'm not one of those "but muh rights" types but i'm really not a big fan of exactly that, the casual overreach of rights

like i get it, big picture you gotta make changes but there's a line to be toed there. kids are gonna show up with shovels and brooms and skate that park anyway, so you've spent taxpayer money to fill it in and you're gonna be spending more taxpayer money to patrol it anyway.. kids in skateparks are some serious low hanging fruit. when they lift the quarantine you think there's gonna be a bulldozer and 20 workers ready to clean it out? yeah right.

 

[Fishhead]

The problem with you people is you don't realize that trout can spread COVID faster than humans, hence the clampdown on fishing. Jeez.

I'm on the distancing bandwagon, but that's way overboard. We have some overzealous leaders out there who completely over compensate. There is a contingent of folks who want nothing to change in their lives and go about their business without any precautions. There are groups of people who actually think it's a good idea to group up and protest right now. There's more, but that's why people get hassled for doing things that are completely safe to themselves and others. If I saw a guy standing on a corner handing out flyers right now, sure I'd be a little bothered by that. But a guy on a boat in the middle of a lake? Please.

I haven't noticed any patrolling or anything like that here in south central (OC, people). I know there's a shelter at home in effect, but I still go out for drives often to break the monotony. I have an EV so I don't need to get gas, I just plug in for a while and go. I have zero contact with anyone, sometimes the whole family goes. It's zero risk, really, unless COVID is somehow coming in through the vents on PCH. I suppose I would have some contact if I had to call roadside assistance, but what are the odds.

 

[KINGS17]

The problem with you people is you don't realize that trout can spread COVID faster than humans, hence the clampdown on fishing. Jeez.

I'm on the distancing bandwagon, but that's way overboard. We have some overzealous leaders out there who completely over compensate. There is a contingent of folks who want nothing to change in their lives and go about their business without any precautions. There are groups of people who actually think it's a good idea to group up and protest right now. There's more, but that's why people get hassled for doing things that are completely safe to themselves and others. If I saw a guy standing on a corner handing out flyers right now, sure I'd be a little bothered by that. But a guy on a boat in the middle of a lake? Please.

I haven't noticed any patrolling or anything like that here in south central (OC, people). I know there's a shelter at home in effect, but I still go out for drives often to break the monotony. I have an EV so I don't need to get gas, I just plug in for a while and go. I have zero contact with anyone, sometimes the whole family goes. It's zero risk, really, unless COVID is somehow coming in through the vents on PCH. I suppose I would have some contact if I had to call roadside assistance, but what are the odds.

Be careful COVID is everywhere!!

 

[KingsFan7824]

Who would have guessed a couple months ago that bitching about Doughty’s powerplay slap shot and Lewis’ hands of stone were the “good” times here this year?

 

[ricardfromage]

It still seems so weird to read/hear about how things are for most of the rest of the country versus where I live. People are out fishing, hiking and doing all sorts of other activities like there is nothing going on in the world that could every be wrong. We have 3 cases of china virus up here and all 3 have recovered. There may be a new one or two since Friday but not that anyone has heard of and as far as our rights granted to us under the constitution as well as our god given inalienable rights I honestly believe that war would break out here before anyone would give up any of them. I know it sounds bad to some of us but it is where the rubber meets the road in all things. What else is there if you don't have your freedom(s)? I am not saying that everyone should be doing the same things that we are because I live in a really empty area surrounded by wilderness for the most part but I would travel down to Los Angeles to fight for your rights if they were infringed on. We are all American citizens regardless of any political beliefs and we all deserve the rights granted to us. I truly thank god that we have a great military and all kinds of smart leaders to turn to during these times but the best that we could ever hope for comes from within ourselves (and god for some of us). I believe that this virus is a bio attack on our country and our freedom. I believe that we deserve better than we have been getting from our govt until recently and I believe that this attack will be a great wake up call for all of us in one way or another. Not divided by our political differences but united by our love and care for each other. Meh, blah blah blah..... I know.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Who would have guessed a couple months ago that bitching about Doughty’s powerplay slap shot and Lewis’ hands of stone were the “good” times here this year?

Don't forget the great "Should/can Blake trade Carter??" (which became, post-deadline, "Did Blake fail because he didn't/couldn't trade Carter??") debate. Sweet memories...

 

[Maynard]

It still seems so weird to read/hear about how things are for most of the rest of the country versus where I live. People are out fishing, hiking and doing all sorts of other activities like there is nothing going on in the world that could every be wrong. We have 3 cases of china virus up here and all 3 have recovered. There may be a new one or two since Friday but not that anyone has heard of and as far as our rights granted to us under the constitution as well as our god given inalienable rights I honestly believe that war would break out here before anyone would give up any of them. I know it sounds bad to some of us but it is where the rubber meets the road in all things. What else is there if you don't have your freedom(s)? I am not saying that everyone should be doing the same things that we are because I live in a really empty area surrounded by wilderness for the most part but I would travel down to Los Angeles to fight for your rights if they were infringed on. We are all American citizens regardless of any political beliefs and we all deserve the rights granted to us. I truly thank god that we have a great military and all kinds of smart leaders to turn to during these times but the best that we could ever hope for comes from within ourselves (and god for some of us). I believe that this virus is a bio attack on our country and our freedom. I believe that we deserve better than we have been getting from our govt until recently and I believe that this attack will be a great wake up call for all of us in one way or another. Not divided by our political differences but united by our love and care for each other. Meh, blah blah blah..... I know.

You think the virus is an attack on our country? Did I read that correctly?

 

[fivehole32]

In 1918, they shut down large activties but they didnt shut down life. If there was a hotspot, they required people to wear masks. I can guarentee you when this is all over even if it ends tomorrow there will be 10s of thousands of small businesses that will never open their doors. I can speak from experience because just because I own an essential business, I am teetering on almost losing it all, automotive repair shop if you must know. The purpose of bending the curve was to not overwhelm the medical infrastructure. Well guess what, congratulations we did it. I have a few friends that are doctors at the local hospital that are being made to take PTO and there are 12 cases in the ICU. The rest of the hospital is only using 20% of its capacity. You have Garcetti asking citizens to snitch on their fellow citizens if non essential businesses are operating. I mean if it isn't clear to you that this is starting to get out of bounds I don't know what else to say. Yes we must obviously care for our fellow citizens, however the only way to achieve herd immunity is to get around other people. We can not wait on an inoculation because one may never come. Anyhow that's my two cents.