TSN: How the coronavirus could impact the NHL’s bottom line UPD: NHL Season suspended MOD Warning post139

[Master Yoda]

Any mental health issues caused by economic problems pales in comparison to the loss of life if things just went back to normal. Look what's happening in Northern Italy, where they ignored the order to stay in, then multiply that by hundreds of time. People are a lot softer in general now anyways, we don't roll with the punches like we used to. While there have been a lot of great movements that promote equality and fairness, that's the downside to them. When real adversity hits - not something like someone calling you the wrong gender or looking at you funny because you are wearing a headdress - people don't know how to deal with it.

If current humans were cavemen, we never would have made it as a species.

I'm not advocating that we just go back to normal tomorrow.
But if/when the health care system is ready, things should begin to operate again with some precautions still in place.
And with those who are more at-risk still in lockdown.

 

[Master Yoda]

You know I thought about that this AM too but Sweden's "loosely applying guidelines" is very similar to how we're acting under "Stay at home order." AKA large gatherings are closed and people are encouraged to work from home, but people are going out (responsibly) as relatively normal.

My understanding of the two situations were that Sweden's orders were much more loose than in California or the US in general, especially in the big cities, with schools and restaurants still operating in Sweden.

The school closures are a big part of any "re-opening" of the economy because people can't go to work without schools also re-opening.

 

[Reaper45]

My kids and I got hit with the swine flu at the start of last month, which if you didnt know is now the seasonal Influenza A. I only now am starting to feel better. My kids recovered much faster. If this thing becomes seasonal...

 

[HeadInjury]

My understanding of the two situations were that Sweden's orders were much more loose than in California or the US in general, especially in the big cities, with schools and restaurants still operating in Sweden.

The school closures are a big part of any "re-opening" of the economy because people can't go to work without schools also re-opening.

Sweden has closed universities but not schools. Restaurants and shops are open. People are asked to distance themselves. People are asked to work from home if they can. Older people are asked to isolate. Large events are closed.

One-half of all Swedish households consist of only one person. So maybe their culture practices social distancing already.

The UK and the Netherlands both started with the same approach, but then concluded too many would die and abandoned it. Sweden is either going to look pretty smart or end up with a high death rate.

 

[Fishhead]

I'm not advocating that we just go back to normal tomorrow.
But if/when the health care system is ready, things should begin to operate again with some precautions still in place.
And with those who are more at-risk still in lockdown.

Totally agree. When medical experts say it's good to go, we should. We certainly shouldn't rush things because of economic issues.

 

[BigKing]

Glad to have a job and be considered essential but I just had the busiest week of my professional life due to this Paycheck Protection Plan loan program. Holy smokes.

 

[Fishhead]

Most people live paycheck to paycheck. 4 months is a lot of money per person. And they won't suddenly have jobs when things re-open again. That all depends on whether or not their businesses survived or even their industry. It's not flipping a switch. And in all likelihood, this disease will be seasonal. Can't shut down the country for half the year every year. At some point we're going to have to manage the losses.

That may be true, but if you are living paycheck to paycheck and can't save up 4 months, you should really be living elsewhere for your own financial well being. I have friends who have nice houses, nice cars, and a lot of them don't know what to do now because it's so tight. I have family in Colorado and they love it there. They have houses and everything they need and make less than half what I do. It's the American way to run up a bunch of credit, and now it's hurting people. It's complete craziness. I get that there are always people who are going to be right on the edge because they lack skills or opportunity, but that's what assistance is for.

This isn't going to be a huge seasonal thing, coronas don't work like that usually. SARS went away, MERS infects a couple hundred per year worldwide. COVID just happens to be the thing that's causing economic pain now. But it could have been an Earthquake, massive flooding, devastating fires, and so on. This virus is certainly exposing how fragile most of our finances are and the people who can make it through without a scratch are going to be the ones who are prepared. We should just go on what the experts in the field say and call it a day.

 

[KopitarFAN]

I'm at the point where I want them to either call off the season, or announce that if they do finish, they'll go right into the playoffs.

 

[KINGS17]

Glad to have a job and be considered essential but I just had the busiest week of my professional life due to this Paycheck Protection Plan loan program. Holy smokes.

If there are any fractions of pennies (like tens of billions of them) laying around on the floor be sure to send them to me.

 

[kingsholygrail]

That may be true, but if you are living paycheck to paycheck and can't save up 4 months, you should really be living elsewhere for your own financial well being. I have friends who have nice houses, nice cars, and a lot of them don't know what to do now because it's so tight. I have family in Colorado and they love it there. They have houses and everything they need and make less than half what I do. It's the American way to run up a bunch of credit, and now it's hurting people. It's complete craziness. I get that there are always people who are going to be right on the edge because they lack skills or opportunity, but that's what assistance is for.

This isn't going to be a huge seasonal thing, coronas don't work like that usually. SARS went away, MERS infects a couple hundred per year worldwide. COVID just happens to be the thing that's causing economic pain now. But it could have been an Earthquake, massive flooding, devastating fires, and so on. This virus is certainly exposing how fragile most of our finances are and the people who can make it through without a scratch are going to be the ones who are prepared. We should just go on what the experts in the field say and call it a day.

Experts in the field would say everyone should stay home for the rest of the year. Maybe longer. This is like asking pilots how long the seatbelt check light should be on. They'd say the whole flight. At some point you have to weigh the costs and benefits. Do you ruin more lives economically than if you let the disease run its course? Because none of those experts are saying this is about containment. We're past that. It's expected that almost everyone will get this disease at some point. They're just rationing the care.

 

[jfont]

I don't live in California but with California announcing school closures until the end of the school year, I'm wondering what the plan is?
Let's say we get to a point where it is deemed under control, then what?
There's really no realistic way to stop another outbreak.
And waiting months or years until a vaccine is developed is not an option.

I've mentioned it before, as well as some other here, that ultimately people will have to get back to work and the economy will have to restart.
While there was definitely a need to "flatten the curve", when the health care industry is more prepared to handle the increase, lockdowns orders will need to start being lifted.

Here is a good opinion piece:
When to End the Coronavirus Lockdown? Soon

And she makes a real good point about this creating a whole new slew of mental health problems.
The opioid crises is a serious problem now, and some of that stems from lost manufacturing and mining jobs in the rust belt.
This could become an even bigger problem when millions lose jobs and businesses go bankrupt.

I would steer clear of this author's drivel

McCaughey’s well-earned reputation—across the political spectrum—as one of the most dishonest, shameless, and irresponsible conservative thinkers on the scene today. Plus, she’s a famously narcissistic, self-promoting drama queen. In 2009, I wrote a long profile exploring some of the highlights, and lowlights, of McCaughey’s soap-operatic career.

Is Betsy McCaughey Too Perfect a Match for Donald Trump?

 

[KingsFan7824]

If there are any fractions of pennies (like tens of billions of them) laying around on the floor be sure to send them to me.

 

[HeadInjury]

Right now, California is perfectly tracking the University of Washington COVID-19 model for deaths. However, New York's daily deaths are now above the upper end of that model's range. Cali is estimated to have about 5,000 deaths, New York about 16,000.

Cuomo said today that although they ordered 17,000 ventilators from China, they've now been advised that the orders won't be filled. Lovely.

 

[KINGS17]

Right now, California is perfectly tracking the University of Washington COVID-19 model for deaths. However, New York's daily deaths are now above the upper end of that model's range. Cali is estimated to have about 5,000 deaths, New York about 16,000.

Cuomo said today that although they ordered 17,000 ventilators from China, they've now been advised that the orders won't be filled. Lovely.

I wouldn't trust China to do jack. Every country and corporation in the world needs to rethink their relationship with the Communist Chinese government.

Coronavirus test kits withdrawn in Spain over poor accuracy rate

The Spanish government has withdrawn 58,000 Chinese-made coronavirus testing kits from use after it emerged that they had an accurate detection rate of just 30%.

Then you have this kind of crap whenever China is criticized. They immediately move to intimidate countries in their region which they feel they can bully and force them to promote Chinese propaganda. When everything is about covering for the communist government you get shills like Wendy Wu who writes for the South China Morning Post writing this kind of garbage.

Philippines apologises for saying Chinese test kits were inaccurate

The Philippines’ health department on Sunday apologised for comments it made a day earlier that two batches of coronavirus test kits provided by China were substandard.

Undersecretary for health Maria Rosario Vergeire said on Saturday that some of the kits made by BGI Group and Sansure Biotech were only 40 per cent accurate in diagnosing Covid-19 and that some of them would have to be discarded as a result.

China’s embassy in Manila rejected those accusations, saying the kits complied with World Health Organisation standards and that they had played “a significant role” in enabling the Philippine government to deal with the Covid-19 epidemic.

“The quality of the 2,000 test kits from BGI Group, and 100,000 nucleic acid test kits from Sansure Biotech … is very good and there does not exist any accuracy problem,” it said.

Then there is this regarding the quality of the face masks manufactured by China. Didn't Cuomo just say during one of his recent press briefings New York has ordered millions of masks from China? If you were a health care worker would you trust Chinese masks to protect your life and the lives of your family?

Meanwhile, the Dutch health ministry said on Saturday it had recalled 600,000 of the 1.3 million face masks manufactured in China because they failed to meet safety requirements.

Tests found that the masks – some of which had already been distributed to hospitals – failed to close over the face properly and had defective filters. Agence France-Presse reported.

What a surprise that WHO indirectly defends the Chinese Communist government again by saying the COVID-19 tests meet their standards. This is why the WHO needs to be defunded by the United States.

I have visited Xian for work and found the people there eager learn and yearning for freedom. Yet you can sense that they are reserved, and just can't be themselves. They don't have their own identities. Everything is for the state.

The Communist Chinese government started this whole mess, and now they want to be heroes and profit from it.

 

[Reaper45]

I used to work with children with Autism. In my first year my favorite student, a 1st grader at the time, leaned in close to me one day and said, "Mr. Sean, you cant trust the Chinese." You definitely cannot trust the Chinese government.

 

[KingLB]

I mean we are ordering 3M not to ship masks to allies/friends. We should be careful what we say from our glass houses.

 

[jfont]

Going to casino later

 

[KINGS17]

I mean we are ordering 3M not to ship masks to allies/friends. We should be careful what we say from our glass houses.

Several countries have "no ship" out of country orders for critical supplies. It's not just the United States. It is the responsibility of the American government to care for its citizens first. In time the U.S. will produce a surplus of critical items which will be shipped to others in need. There isn't a single country that is not living in a glass house at this time.

 

[KingLB]

Several countries have "no ship" out of country orders for critical supplies. It's not just the United States. It is the responsibility of the American government to care for its citizens first. In time the U.S. will produce a surplus of critical items which will be shipped to others in need. There isn't a single country that is not living in a glass house at this time.

That's an overly simplistic jingoist view. So China canceling ventilator order shows they are trying to be heros and profit from this, but the US doing it, is cause its to care for citizens. 3M while an "American company" has locals across the world. If masks are being manufactured in lets say Mexico (for example) and they have no masks, yet the US government decrees 3M must send them to US how long do you think those masks will still be coming to the US? If I'm Mexico or the employees there, the truck never makes it out of the city...We start cutting off supplies to China, where so much of our emergency PPE is produced, what happens when they respond? Just like they did with the tariffs that were imposed last year.

And just because "several countries" have "no ship" directives, does that mean the US should follow? Is imitating the China's of the world really what the US wants to be? Is American exceptionalism dead? Or just being like the other guys is what we are reduced to? (these are honest questions not directed at you in particular)

 

[KINGS17]

That's an overly simplistic jingoist view. So China canceling ventilator order shows they are trying to be heros and profit from this, but the US doing it, is cause its to care for citizens. 3M while an "American company" has locals across the world. If masks are being manufactured in lets say Mexico (for example) and they have no masks, yet the US government decrees 3M must send them to US how long do you think those masks will still be coming to the US? If I'm Mexico or the employees there, the truck never makes it out of the city...We start cutting off supplies to China, where so much of our emergency PPE is produced, what happens when they respond? Just like they did with the tariffs that were imposed last year.

And just because "several countries" have "no ship" directives, does that mean the US should follow? Is imitating the China's of the world really what the US wants to be? Is American exceptionalism dead? Or just being like the other guys is what we are reduced to? (these are honest questions not directed at you in particular)

The items produced in the United States by American corporations should stay here, unless and until we have a surplus of those items. Factories capable of producing critical need items should be converted to make those items ASAP. That is what the Defense Production Act is all about, American national security. Yes, it is that simple.

You can call Americans producing products for our national security jingoistic. No one cares about the labels being thrown around right now. If there is a need here, and it is made here, it stays here.

 

[KINGS17]

Video on cross contamination. Yeah, it's not as easy as it sounds to stay "clean".

 

[KingsFan7824]

3M while an "American company" has locals across the world. If masks are being manufactured in lets say Mexico (for example) and they have no masks, yet the US government decrees 3M must send them to US how long do you think those masks will still be coming to the US?

Is it a Mexican company? That's part of the cost of globalization; corporations have no home. That's how they drive down the wages. By fitting through the cracks of a world that still has national boundaries, playing one government against another.

If I'm Mexico or the employees there, the truck never makes it out of the city...We start cutting off supplies to China, where so much of our emergency PPE is produced, what happens when they respond? Just like they did with the tariffs that were imposed last year.

Is it Mexico's property? I guess you can say, borders matter, but at the same time, we're trying to build a global world where, borders don't matter.

And just because "several countries" have "no ship" directives, does that mean the US should follow? Is imitating the China's of the world really what the US wants to be? Is American exceptionalism dead? Or just being like the other guys is what we are reduced to?

Is it? If 3M had to send masks manufactured in some other country to the US, then that would be exceptionalism. If they don't have to, or if Mexico/employees can stop the trucks, for their own benefit, then that would be the US going down a notch.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The items produced in the United States by American corporations should stay here, unless and until we have a surplus of those items. Factories capable of producing critical need items should be converted to make those items ASAP. That is what the Defense Production Act is all about, American national security. Yes, it is that simple.

You can call Americans producing products for our national security jingoistic. No one cares about the labels being thrown around right now. If there is a need here, and it is made here, it stays here.

Well, for a company like 3M in particular--yes, they're an "American" company, but producing products for the world. And in doing so, they've opened all sorts of regional headquarters to produce for different regions:

"3M had another built-in advantage: Unlike many companies that have moved production to low-cost countries, it sources the materials for its respirators near its assembly plants and serves customers reasonably close by. “We make respirators in China for the China market, we make respirators in Korea for a little more than the Korea market,” Roman says. Each plant can ship respirators anywhere—pretty important in a pandemic—but day to day, a plant doesn’t rely on distant vendors subject to tariffs or export bans."

How 3M Plans to Make More Than a Billion Masks By End of Year

It's not that simple because a lot of America's economy--and a lot of it tied to this event--is "American" products from other countries. People will maybe be forced to confront that reality as it hasn't hit them on a daily basis (even as they're wearing the irony of China-made "America" hats), our economy is inextricably tied to the world in ways that are very, very visible right now. Good luck c***b***ck a shipment of Korean 3M masks to Korea.

But yes, in theory, the DPA is focused on domestic-created products for homeland security. Hence many companies shifting operations--some airlines turning flights into cargo flights, local alcohol companies making hand sanitizer, or Ford, Honeywell, et. al. collaborating to create. We need more, but it's a start.

 

[KINGS17]

Well, for a company like 3M in particular--yes, they're an "American" company, but producing products for the world. And in doing so, they've opened all sorts of regional headquarters to produce for different regions:

"3M had another built-in advantage: Unlike many companies that have moved production to low-cost countries, it sources the materials for its respirators near its assembly plants and serves customers reasonably close by. “We make respirators in China for the China market, we make respirators in Korea for a little more than the Korea market,” Roman says. Each plant can ship respirators anywhere—pretty important in a pandemic—but day to day, a plant doesn’t rely on distant vendors subject to tariffs or export bans."

How 3M Plans to Make More Than a Billion Masks By End of Year

It's not that simple because a lot of America's economy--and a lot of it tied to this event--is "American" products from other countries. People will maybe be forced to confront that reality as it hasn't hit them on a daily basis (even as they're wearing the irony of China-made "America" hats), our economy is inextricably tied to the world in ways that are very, very visible right now. Good luck c***b***ck a shipment of Korean 3M masks to Korea.

But yes, in theory, the DPA is focused on domestic-created products for homeland security. Hence many companies shifting operations--some airlines turning flights into cargo flights, local alcohol companies making hand sanitizer, or Ford, Honeywell, et. al. collaborating to create. We need more, but it's a start.

I am not expecting factories on foreign soil to create products for out needs here. If "exporting" from the United States means making it in the United States then shipping it somewhere else, then it needs to stay here until all of our needs are filled. As I said, that is the whole point of the DPA, and why GM was ordered to start making ventilators.

It's why My Pillow is now making masks.

As we discussed much earlier, the United States is going to have to look at all supply chains now from the standpoint of national security. That goes for everything from pharmaceuticals, to medical equipment, to military equipment.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I am not expecting factories on foreign soil to create products for out needs here. If "exporting" from the United States means making it in the United States then shipping it somewhere else, then it needs to stay here until all of our needs are filled. As I said, that is the whole point of the DPA, and why GM was ordered to start making ventilators.

It's why My Pillow is now making masks.

As we discussed much earlier, the United States is going to have to look at all supply chains now from the standpoint of national security. That goes for everything from pharmaceuticals, to medical equipment, to military equipment.

I think I'm agreeing with you overall, just drawing attention to the sheer number of "American" companies whose major functions are overseas.