How much would you give Callahan on his next contract?

[Leonardo87]

People keep comparing Callahan to Drury. You really shouldn't.

Yes, Cally has become injury prone. It's easy to look at his time missed, and say that he's "breaking down" (which, by the way, is a medical improbability to a ridiculous degree), and ignore that most of his injures have been from being hit with a 90 mph+ piece of frozen, vulcanized rubber.

There's no legitimate evidence to suggest that Cally's bone's are significantly more brittle now than they were 3 years ago. Yes, the human body's bones do grow weaker over time, but It'd be closer to 37 than 27 that such a factor would become a problem.

As for his shoulder, I don't think people ought to be using that against him. He played 20+ games with a torn labrum, and managed to score at about his usual pace, and still be one of the most physical on the team. Frankly, that's awe inspiring. The injury happened off of a freak accident, he landed wrong in a fight with Max Talbot, and it tore his shoulder up. Could happen to anyone. Again, he'd never suffered an injury to that shoulder (at least, no in his NHL career), so there's no evidence of "breaking down"

And finally, his knee. He hurt it early in the game, and up until that point, he had actually, in this particular game, been playing like the old Cally. He was throwing his body left and right, almost recklessly, trying to break out of the funk. He landed a hit awkwardly, and his knee twisted in an odd fashion.

Most of you know what happens when you play recklessly: someone gets hurt.


Chris Drury suffered from a degenerative knee disease. He also didn't, "break down"; he was sick. It took so much out of him that most AHLers would have been able to skate circles around him, and it's entirely likely that if he hadn't suffered such a chronic illness, he might still be playing today.

There's a difference between someone like Callahan, who gets hurt beacuse he blocks shots, fights in front of the net, or goes hard into corners, someone like Drury, a very good player who suffered from a chronic degenerative joint disease, and someone like Gaborik, who would pull a muscle for no damn reason.

Totally agree with this.

I know everyone wants this team to win, and everyone has a right to their opinions but one opinion I totally disagree with is that Callahan is going to follow in the footsteps of Drury. Most of his injuries occurred blocking shots, you take that out and he misses no games in the last 3 seasons, except for the 3 he missed last season.

 

[Riverdale]

Totally agree with this.

I know everyone wants this team to win, and everyone has a right to their opinions but one opinion I totally disagree with is that Callahan is going to follow in the footsteps of Drury. Most of his injuries occurred blocking shots, you take that out and he misses no games in the last 3 seasons, except for the 3 he missed last season.

Blocking shots is a pretty large part of Cally's game.

 

[Callagraves]

Blocking shots is a pretty large part of Cally's game.

When you compare shots blocked to games missed from shot blocking, it becomes less of a huge deal.

 

[Inferno]

People keep comparing Callahan to Drury. You really shouldn't.

Yes, Cally has become injury prone. It's easy to look at his time missed, and say that he's "breaking down" (which, by the way, is a medical improbability to a ridiculous degree), and ignore that most of his injures have been from being hit with a 90 mph+ piece of frozen, vulcanized rubber.

There's no legitimate evidence to suggest that Cally's bone's are significantly more brittle now than they were 3 years ago. Yes, the human body's bones do grow weaker over time, but It'd be closer to 37 than 27 that such a factor would become a problem.

As for his shoulder, I don't think people ought to be using that against him. He played 20+ games with a torn labrum, and managed to score at about his usual pace, and still be one of the most physical on the team. Frankly, that's awe inspiring. The injury happened off of a freak accident, he landed wrong in a fight with Max Talbot, and it tore his shoulder up. Could happen to anyone. Again, he'd never suffered an injury to that shoulder (at least, no in his NHL career), so there's no evidence of "breaking down"

And finally, his knee. He hurt it early in the game, and up until that point, he had actually, in this particular game, been playing like the old Cally. He was throwing his body left and right, almost recklessly, trying to break out of the funk. He landed a hit awkwardly, and his knee twisted in an odd fashion.

Most of you know what happens when you play recklessly: someone gets hurt.


Chris Drury suffered from a degenerative knee disease. He also didn't, "break down"; he was sick. It took so much out of him that most AHLers would have been able to skate circles around him, and it's entirely likely that if he hadn't suffered such a chronic illness, he might still be playing today.

There's a difference between someone like Callahan, who gets hurt beacuse he blocks shots, fights in front of the net, or goes hard into corners, someone like Drury, a very good player who suffered from a chronic degenerative joint disease, and someone like Gaborik, who would pull a muscle for no damn reason.

most people compare drury to cally in that, they are/were catch-all players who did a little of everything. personally, i dont compare their injury situation, i compare their skill set.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

most people compare drury to cally in that, they are/were catch-all players who did a little of everything. personally, i dont compare their injury situation, i compare their skill set.

I try not to make that comparison because I think Drury was a better player than Callahan (in their primes, which I fear Callahan is coming out of).

 

[OverTheCap]

The thing that has bothered me the most about Callahan this year is that his compete level is not where it used to be. The best thing about Callahan has always been his work ethic and effort, and if he can't play at 100% intensity each and every game, then that limits his effectiveness as a player.

As captain of this team, I expect Callahan to set the tone by delivering a big hit, establishing the forecheck, or making a smart defensive play. I've seen very little of that from him this year.

 

[Inferno]

I try not to make that comparison because I think Drury was a better player than Callahan (in their primes, which I fear Callahan is coming out of).

i think drury was more offensively talented....probably.

however, Callahan never got to play on teams with Sakic, Forsberg, etc during his prime...so it's kinda tough to compare them.

 

[pld459666]

I need to keep defending Cally, I know the odds are he will be re-signed. But it just makes me feel better, lol. Here are some numbers that will show his worth....

Over the last 3 seasons including this one, this is what he has done..

146 Points in 205 Games = .71 PPG Average
76 Goals in 205 Games = .37 GPG Average

He missed an average of 12 Games per season over the last 3 including this one.
So do the math even if he is injury prone..

70 Games X .71 PPG = 50+ Points
70 Games X .37 GPG = 25+ Goals

So even if Cally gets hurt, he is still going to produce 25+ goals, accoring to this statistic, and statistics and averages are almost everything when signing someone.

Do you really want to give up a 25+ goal scorer who also kills penalties, one of the better forwards on the PP, and puts effort and heart into every play?

Say he does not get hurt then he has the potential to produce around 60 points and around 30 goals in a season. He is in his prime now, and I am sure he is going to start playing smarter to avoid injury, which means more offense and less blocking shots, since most of his injuries has been from blocking shots. What happened last Tuesday was a fluke the way he turned and the other player swung around, and he only sprained his knee, could of been a lot worse.

What the matrix above doesn't take into consideration is the advance in age and the increased odds of injury as is the case with most older players that play a physical brand of hockey.

With the likely increase in injury resulting in more games missed due to injury the production numbers are going to slide.

It's nice to average out what a player COULD do if they stayed healthy.

It would be even nicer if they COULD stay healthy to prove your point.

Personally, while I love the way he hustles and plays the game, if you can get a nice return for him knowing he's looking for 6 per, you make that move every day and twice on sunday.

 

[Barnaby]

I love Callahan. He's been one of my favorite players over the last 5 years. I have his jersey.

With that said, I can't see giving him over 5 million for 4 years - maybe a bit more on the $ side. As much as I love the guy, he's become an exemplary 3rd liner or complimentary 2nd liner. Two years ago I thought he was on his way to being a regular 25-30 goal scorer who could play PK/PP and hit. He doesn't seem to be that player right now. Clarkson got WAY overpaid. Callahan has every reason to go to UFA and ask for that, and more, but it would NOT be a prudent signing…

I'd hold onto him for a playoff run if the team improves significantly, but you really have to strongly consider a move at the deadline if his demands are too much. He should bring back a 1st in 2014 or 2015

 

[bernmeister]

Voted trade on these options.
Any deal must be short term. How much depends on who still here needs to be signed.
Could see under certain circumstances like 1 year 5m deal. But most likely, he is traded.

 

[Barnaby]

Voted trade on these options.
Any deal must be short term. How much depends on who still here needs to be signed.
Could see under certain circumstances like 1 year 5m deal. But most likely, he is traded.

1 year at 5 mill is an insult when you look at the UFA market - he wouldn't and shouldn't touch it. I'd probably go 3 or 4 years at 5.5. I'd have a hard time breaking that… I just don't see him as a 6 million dollar player, and his brand of hockey doesn't normally go well with 5+ year contracts..

 

[Ail]

Voted trade on these options.
Any deal must be short term. How much depends on who still here needs to be signed.
Could see under certain circumstances like 1 year 5m deal. But most likely, he is traded.

No way would Callahan take a 1 year deal, especially at 5m.

 

[NYR Sting]

The thing that has bothered me the most about Callahan this year is that his compete level is not where it used to be. The best thing about Callahan has always been his work ethic and effort, and if he can't play at 100% intensity each and every game, then that limits his effectiveness as a player.

As captain of this team, I expect Callahan to set the tone by delivering a big hit, establishing the forecheck, or making a smart defensive play. I've seen very little of that from him this year.

Fine. All valid points. But this is the first time in about 5 years (a period where, by and large, he was this team's best, most consistent skater on a nightly basis) where he hasn't done those things. 24 games. That's enough to give up on the guy?

I find this thread to be highly disconcerting. I expect this kind of alarmist opinion-swerve from a lot of the fanbase, but even posters who I find to generally be highly informed and reasonable are piling on here, and that disturbs me.

Should Callahan be making superstar money? Certainly not, but he has earned a 4-5 year deal in the $5-5.5 million range, and I think he can still be the player he has been, or a reasonable facsimile of it, for 3-4 years of it. I think trading or not re-signing Callahan would be a terrible mistake, and it is a shame if that puts me in the extreme minority.

Yes, you have to make tough decisions in salary cap leagues, but that doesn't mean you give up on a guy because he has struggled for a few months after years of consistently high quality performance.

Not many players these days spend their entire careers with one team, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible for that to happen. That should be the goal with players like Callahan and Lundqvist.

 

[Ail]

Fine. All valid points. But this is the first time in about 5 years (a period where, by and large, he was this team's best, most consistent skater on a nightly basis) where he hasn't done those things. 24 games. That's enough to give up on the guy?

I find this thread to be highly disconcerting. I expect this kind of alarmist opinion-swerve from a lot of the fanbase, but even posters who I find to generally be highly informed and reasonable are piling on here, and that disturbs me.

Should Callahan be making superstar money? Certainly not, but he has earned a 4-5 year deal in the $5-5.5 million range, and I think he can still be the player he has been, or a reasonable facsimile of it, for 3-4 years of it. I think trading or not re-signing Callahan would be a terrible mistake, and it is a shame if that puts me in the extreme minority.

Yes, you have to make tough decisions in salary cap leagues, but that doesn't mean you give up on a guy because he has struggled for a few months after years of consistently high quality performance.

Not many players these days spend their entire careers with one team, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible for that to happen. That should be the goal with players like Callahan and Lundqvist.

If the term and contract were going to be reasonable, I would agree 100%. Unfortunately right now that possibility rests more on Callahan's shoulders than it does the Rangers. There will be teams willing to pay him big if he makes it to free agency. Is he willing to take a 4 year deal at 5.25m to stay in NY when he can get a 6x6 elsewhere? Especially now that I think there are some legit concerns with his health at the very least. I agree it is silly to say that after only 24 games Callahan's production is about to take a nosedive for the rest of his career, but giving this guy 6-8 years at 6+ mil is a huge risk. One I hope someone else takes and not Sather.

 

[Cake or Death]

Fine. All valid points. But this is the first time in about 5 years (a period where, by and large, he was this team's best, most consistent skater on a nightly basis) where he hasn't done those things. 24 games. That's enough to give up on the guy?

I find this thread to be highly disconcerting. I expect this kind of alarmist opinion-swerve from a lot of the fanbase, but even posters who I find to generally be highly informed and reasonable are piling on here, and that disturbs me.

Should Callahan be making superstar money? Certainly not, but he has earned a 4-5 year deal in the $5-5.5 million range, and I think he can still be the player he has been, or a reasonable facsimile of it, for 3-4 years of it. I think trading or not re-signing Callahan would be a terrible mistake, and it is a shame if that puts me in the extreme minority.

Yes, you have to make tough decisions in salary cap leagues, but that doesn't mean you give up on a guy because he has struggled for a few months after years of consistently high quality performance.

Not many players these days spend their entire careers with one team, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible for that to happen. That should be the goal with players like Callahan and Lundqvist.

You say you, "find this thread to be highly disconcerting," but you're base offering him only 4 years and a $125,000 raise over what he made this season? I think you're seriously undervaluing what he can realistically get paid, but there is honestly no reason for him to stay in NY on the offer you suggest - he'll do much better on the open market and then we'd lose him for nothing.

That's really the entire challenge here. The guy will have some teams that are going to want him and are going to pay him, for sure, and this is happening in a market where the cap is going up quite a bit. The Rangers have almost no leverage here and Callahan has tons of it. He is making $4.875 million this season. If you think a start offer of 4-5 years at that tiny of a raise is going to get it done, I don't agree.

 

[RangerBoy]

Callahan was a tough sign in 2011. The Rangers wanted a longer term than 3 years but they couldn't find the right number. The cap is going up. Callahan can command a 7 year contract as a free agent in July. The Rangers would be insane to give Callahan 7 years. The player can't stay healthy. That shouldn't be an issue? Its great for Callahan and his family. Long term financial security. He gets paid no matter how many games he plays. He will 36 at the end of a 7 year contract. Callahan has already said his contract talks were going nowhere and will let the situation play itself out. Free agency.

“There’s absolutely nothing going on with that,” Callahan told The Post before Monday night’s 5-2 defeat to the Jets at the Garden when asked about the status of negotiations.

The career Ranger, who will turn 29 in March, will be courted by a substantial number of clubs if he hits the open market. The Rochester, N.Y., native is expected to be a primary target of the Sabres.

“It’s something that will take care of itself,” Callahan said when asked if he is bothered by the lack of progress toward an extension. “I’ll play this year and see what happens after that.”

http://nypost.com/2013/12/02/absolutely-nothing-going-on-with-callahan-contract-talks/

The Rangers have discussed contract with Callahan. The team needs to trade him. Callahan will become a free agent in July. Business is business. Too many people allow their personal feelings about a player get in the way.

 

[Ola]

Callahan was a tough sign in 2011. The Rangers wanted a longer term than 3 years but they couldn't find the right number. The cap is going up. Callahan can command a 7 year contract as a free agent in July. The Rangers would be insane to give Callahan 7 years. The player can't stay healthy. That shouldn't be an issue? Its great for Callahan and his family. Long term financial security. He gets paid no matter how many games he plays. He will 36 at the end of a 7 year contract. Callahan has already said his contract talks were going nowhere and will let the situation play itself out. Free agency.

http://nypost.com/2013/12/02/absolutely-nothing-going-on-with-callahan-contract-talks/

The Rangers have discussed contract with Callahan. The team needs to trade him. Callahan will become a free agent in July. Business is business. Too many people allow their personal feelings about a player get in the way.

I don't get why you are so afraid of long contracts. Not with Callahan atleast. We can giev him a 8y contract. That would take down his AAV. Lets say we do it.

I believe he would sign this contract (AAV 6.5m):
Year/Cally's age/Salary/Projected cap/Cally's portion in relation to todays Cap (IE 6.5m/the cap * todays cap (63m))
1. 29 y/o / 8m / 71m / 5.7m
2. 30 y/o / 8m / 76,3m / 5.3m
3. 31 y/o / 6m / 82m / 4.9m
4. 32 y/o / 6m / 88,2m / 4.6m
5. 33 y/o / 6m / 95m / 4.3m
6. 34 y/o / 6m / 102m / 4m
7. 35 y/o / 4m / 110m / 3.7m
8. 36 y/o / 4m / 118m / 3.5m

I honestly just don't get at what point those numbers starts to scare you. He is our homegrown captain. So many teams has a vet making around 4m per and its not a big problem. Cally is still young. Sure his production has been up and down and sure, he has been hurt alot. But when I look through it carefully, I just don't see many scenarios with much down side.

1. Cally plays like he does right now for big prats of that contract. No problem to pay him as set out in the above scenario.

2. Cally is hurt a ton. Concussions problems. Shoulder problems. He becomes a vegtable that barely can hold a spot in the NHL. Id bet my right arm he would retire in his mid 30's and get paid by his insurance. Nobody can believe that Cally would sit in the stands as the 13th forward year after year.

3. Cally's production goes down, but he is just in that area that he can keep playing and pot around 35 pts. You know what, that's what many vets get paid 4m per for and what we also would pay him. It would still be worth it for our captain.

4. The cap doesn't go up much. Lets be serious here, that is not an likely scenario at all. I calculated with 7.5% growth. That is nothing. The PA got the 5% option as a floor. We will see growth up towards 10% in good years.

I know that I am in an extreme minority here, but I just don't get the arguments against the above.

And lets make this distinction, this is if we do resign him and don't move him. IE, if we resign him it should be long-term. You can explore trade-options. If COL makes McKinnon available, go for it. If we can get a great return for him, make the trade. The risk for a big blow to the room is obvious, but why not. But resigning him to like a 4y deal shouldn't be an option and letting him go should not be an option either...

 

[Ola]

In short:

1. You get a very good deal for him, explore it.

2. If not, resign him.

Never let him walk, that puts you in a desperate postion. And desperate position means that you end up paying someone like Clowe or Clarkson more. There are no Parise or Suter hitting the market in the coming 2-3 years, even if they do, they would never take 8.5m per but more like 12m per -- in AAV (under a 70-80m cpa).

 

[Trxjw]

Callahan has embodied what the Rangers were for the last several years. However, the team seems to be at a bit of a crossroads here. They have a coach who wants to play a high-tempo game, and the main core of players from the "old era" are coming up for new contracts, and in many cases are well into the prime of their career.

Point being, the prospect of dealing Callahan, at least in my opinion, has very little to do with how he's playing, but more to the fact that a team that wants to move in a direction of "more skill" can't afford to invest $5.5M in a player who not only spends a lot of time on the IR, but ultimately doesn't fit the mold of where the team wants to go. We saw this happen only 2 years ago with the Nash deal. They went out and dealt two guys who really fit the system, to hedge their bets on a player who really didn't fit it at all.

If you want to be an offensive team, you need to target offensive players. Are guys like Callahan a necessary piece in their own right? Absolutely, but you have to treat them as secondary to the primary need of offensive talent. If you can sell high on Callahan to a team who will give you one of those offensive pieces for him, then you do it, IMO.

I love Cally and how he's given his all for this team, but at the same time, I think the team needs a new direction. We've seen this team have serious issues motivating themselves, and he's as responsible for it as anyone else.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

In short:

1. You get a very good deal for him, explore it.

2. If not, resign him.

Never let him walk, that puts you in a desperate postion. And desperate position means that you end up paying someone like Clowe or Clarkson more. There are no Parise or Suter hitting the market in the coming 2-3 years, even if they do, they would never take 8.5m per but more like 12m per -- in AAV (under a 70-80m cpa).

3) Do both.

 

[ArPanet]

If the Rangers did not want to overpay Prust for his "heart and soul" contributions (he fought Lucic, ffs) that were in decline due to wear and tear, there's no way imo "h&s" should have any bearing on Callahan's future with the team. Also, being a homegrown captain should mean zilch.

Everybody agrees the Clowekson contracts are brutal and if Callahan is heading into the summer looking for those kind of numbers or better, it sets up another "what have we done" situation that this organIzation really needs to avoid. Imho

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

If the Rangers did not want to overpay Prust for his "heart and soul" contributions (he fought Lucic, ffs) that were in decline due to wear and tear, there's no way imo "h&s" should have any bearing on Callahan's future with the team. Also, being a homegrown captain should mean zilch.

Are you actually trying to compare Ryan Callahan and Brandon Prust?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I just find it really troublesome that the team and Callahan's management aren't even talking right now.

4-5 years, $5 - 5.5M per? Sounds fine to me. The Rangers need to decide how much they're willing to spend and present it ASAP.

I have mixed emotions about Callahan's future, but I know one thing. They simply cannot let this go into the summer with no agreement/trade with the possibility he walks for ridiculous money elsewhere (or, conversely, the Rangers are on the hook for ridiculous money for him).

 

[ArPanet]

Are you actually trying to compare Ryan Callahan and Brandon Prust?

No man, I'm drunk. /s

Actually what I'm trying to say is, not one penny to Callahan or any other Ranger for "heart and soul".

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

I've said it before, resigning Ryan Callahan is very tricky. Callahan can't stay healthy, his production has probably peaked, and has played a lot of hard minutes. It's dangerous to overpay for Callahan. I am in the trade Callahan side of the discussion.

I love Ryan Callahan, I have no idea if he's a good captain or a bad captain. I love the way he plays but what is Ryan Callahan going to look like in 5 years? Let another team deal with Callahan's body breaking down. The Clarkson contract soured me on Callahan because if that's the market for our Captain the Rangers need to trade him to get something back.

A team will overpay for Callahan. He could legitimately be a key missing piece for a contender at the deadline. I think teams that consider themselves contenders will be tripping over themselves to add Callahan. The right move is to trade him and get the best deal you can. Who cares that he's the Captain, who cares what he's done as a Ranger. Sports is a heartless business and sometimes fans need to be heartless too.