How much faith do you have in the core 4?

[SeaOfBlue]

And Tampa played an entire postseason without Stamkos and won the cup.

NYI played an entire postseason without Anders Lee and got within 1 win of the cup finals.

Both teams were able to leverage their cap space because their injuries happened before the TDL. We were not able to do that with Tavares.

If we had an extra 11 mill in cap space, we could have added someone to replace Tavares' contributions (i.e. Taylor Hall's huge contract) and not had to pay as much for Foligno. Which is what the Islanders did with Lee's cap space by getting Zajac and Palmieri. If Lee was not hurt, those guys would not be there (or the Islanders would need to make some other move to dump cap).

Considering Palmieri was tied for the most goals on the Islanders in the playoffs, that is a pretty big hit for the Islanders... One that likely prevents them from making it to the Conference Finals or possibly even out of the first round.

Tampa also was able to leverage Stamkos to add Bogosian, Goodrow, and Coleman to their roster. They were cap-strapped and would have needed to dump someone to make their contracts fit had Stamkos not been out for the rest of the year. I doubt it would have made a difference but it is not apples-to-apples nonetheless.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

I would hire a new GM and let them figure out what to do. To me, at this point, there is no sense letting Dubas trade or sign anyone else as he has not proved to be proficient at either.

 

[rumman]

The hardest thing to do is wait for something you don’t believe in to end.

I don’t believe in Dubas and I don’t believe in this core. I don’t think these 4 are the right mix to get a team through the playoffs.

Not to mention half the cap is spent in the same area.
Top heavy especially at wing.

The core needs to change or be spread out different. One winger becomes an anchor defender or a different type of forward who has a different intensity.

THIS.
When the dust settles from this experiment of futility, AM/MM/WN will be gone or going, JT’s game will be on a steadily declining curve, and the Leafs will once again be wondering how it all went so bad. All because a inexperienced President thought he and his equally inexperienced wonder boy GM were smarter than the rest of the hockey community. Oh the pain a Leaf fan must suffer……..

 

[Trapper]

You'll never see a more talented leafs Core 4 in your lifetimes.

Individual talent is not in question.

 

[rumman]

You'll never see a more talented leafs Core 4 in your lifetimes.

Highlight reel machine in the regular season, playoffs not so much. Most fans are happy with the flash and dash this team displays in the regular season, but the true beauty of the game is found in the determination and fortitude it takes to outlast equally determined and dedicated teams in the quest for the cup, not the President’s Trophy.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You'll never see a more talented leafs Core 4 in your lifetimes.

Their talent just makes watching them fail more disappointing.

Highlight reel machine in the regular season, playoffs not so much. Most fans are happy with the flash and dash this team displays in the regular season, but the true beauty of the game is found in the determination and fortitude it takes to outlast equally determined and dedicated teams in the quest for the cup, not the President’s Trophy.

Well said.

 

[forecheck]

I cant wait until they are all gone and the leafs can start over again

 

[Bluelines]

Posted this in another thread but it comes down to something that is a human construct... bad luck ... we've played well enough to win the last 2 series.... shitty luck is what it comes down to ...

The Most Annoying Thing About the Toronto Maple Leafs

TBH I wouldn't be surprised to see this team fold like a deck of cheap cards if things go bad to start the season and at the same time it would not surprise me to see the Leafs win the Presidents trophy and go deep in next years playoffs.

 

[centipede2233]

The leafs have not won a playoff round in 17 freakin years! When does it go from bad luck to a merry go round of one bad management team to another…

 

[The Iceman]

Marner does not deserve that honour. He is the most overrated player in the league.

I have watched the Leafs for 50 years. I have never seen a better passer, a player with better vision, and he is an awesome defensive forward with a fantastic engine. Mitch can thread passes through holes that do not appear to be there. He will get the playoff part figured out.
Only the best of the best get named 1st team all stars.

Enjoy or hate on the player as you wish. He is a special talent.

 

[yubbers]

I have watched the Leafs for 50 years. I have never seen a better passer, a player with better vision, and he is an awesome defensive forward with a fantastic engine. Mitch can thread passes through holes that do not appear to be there. He will get the playoff part figured out.
Only the best of the best get named 1st team all stars.

Enjoy or hate on the player as you wish. He is a special talent.

Plenty of special talents have come and gone in this league that have no success. He's about himself, not the team. That rarely translates well into the success of the team they inhabit

 

[notDatsyuk]

I have watched the Leafs for 50 years. I have never seen a better passer, a player with better vision, and he is an awesome defensive forward with a fantastic engine. Mitch can thread passes through holes that do not appear to be there. He will get the playoff part figured out.
Only the best of the best get named 1st team all stars.

Enjoy or hate on the player as you wish. He is a special talent.

I've watched the Leafs for sixty years, and I'll go with Dave Keon.

But I agree that Marner is an excellent player, and he's not the problem; at least not the biggest one.

He's overpaid, as are Matthews, Nylander, and especially Tavares, which handicaps the team in providing quality depth, which in turn handicaps the top players.

The biggest problem with the Leafs is the man who signed, and overpaid, the unnecessary Tavares, and overpaid Matthews, Marner, and Nylander.

To the topic of the thread, the obvious one to be traded is Tavares, who can't be, so the whole premise is misleading.

 

[GoBuds14]

I have watched the Leafs for 50 years. I have never seen a better passer, a player with better vision, and he is an awesome defensive forward with a fantastic engine. Mitch can thread passes through holes that do not appear to be there. He will get the playoff part figured out.
Only the best of the best get named 1st team all stars.

Enjoy or hate on the player as you wish. He is a special talent.

Here’s the thing. Marner looked like a deer in headlights against Montreal, probably the worst he had looked since his rookie season, yet when you look at Game 7 alone, he set up Hyman for 2 grade A scoring chances. In game 5 he had the game on his stick in the final minute but Price made a great 5-hole save, kind of shows the thin line that is execution in the NHL. He still generated opportunities, I find it odd that Marner gets all of this criticism but Matthews seems to be an afterthought, he also seemed very unengaged

 

[Stephen]

You'll never see a more talented leafs Core 4 in your lifetimes.

I’ve seen more successful Leafs teams in my lifetime.

 

[ShaneFalco]

You'll never see a more talented leafs Core 4 in your lifetimes.

Maybe not - but as we've seen, talent only gets you so far.

 

[rumman]

Maybe not - but as we've seen, talent only gets you so far.

I’ll take a plug that’s a winner over a flashy quitter any day and twice on Sunday, but I’m a pickup truck kind of guy not a Ferrari guy. I like stuff that is affordable, reliable, and durable.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I have watched the Leafs for 50 years. I have never seen a better passer, a player with better vision, and he is an awesome defensive forward with a fantastic engine. Mitch can thread passes through holes that do not appear to be there. He will get the playoff part figured out.
Only the best of the best get named 1st team all stars.

Enjoy or hate on the player as you wish. He is a special talent.

After three years in a row of sub par performance, I don't see how it's possible for any rational person to be confident of this.

Maybe not - but as we've seen, talent only gets you so far.

That's the sad part - we all know these guys are talented but the team in the playoffs at clutch time is consistently less than the sum of it's parts. If the talent doesn't translate into results, what good is it?

 

[Gary Nylund]

I’ll take a plug that’s a winner over a flashy quitter any day and twice on Sunday, but I’m a pickup truck kind of guy not a Ferrari guy. I like stuff that is affordable, reliable, and durable.

Aw man, Guy Clark is so good!

 

[ACC1224]

I have watched the Leafs for 50 years. I have never seen a better passer, a player with better vision, and he is an awesome defensive forward with a fantastic engine. Mitch can thread passes through holes that do not appear to be there. He will get the playoff part figured out.
Only the best of the best get named 1st team all stars.

Enjoy or hate on the player as you wish. He is a special talent.

Of that I have no doubt. He's too good not to.

 

[rumman]

Aw man, Guy Clark is so good!

The best.

 

[Trapper]

After three years in a row of sub par performance, I don't see how it's possible for any rational person to be confident of this.



That's the sad part - we all know these guys are talented but the team in the playoffs at clutch time is consistently less than the sum of it's parts. If the talent doesn't translate into results, what good is it?

Why will Marner get it figured out?
Based on what?
Because we signed him for 11 million?
Maybe he will or maybe he won’t on the current construction of the team. We’ve actually seen a playoff intensity decline, not improvement and still the issues with goal scoring.

Kessel didn’t win in Boston or Toronto but won with Pittsburgh.

It may be that these 4 together aren’t the best sum of the parts.

It may be Matthews and Marner but not JT and Nylander or a combination of 2 plus a core defenseman and a Tkachuk type player.

This current build and cap structure may not be it.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I have watched the Leafs for 50 years. I have never seen a better passer, a player with better vision, and he is an awesome defensive forward with a fantastic engine. Mitch can thread passes through holes that do not appear to be there. He will get the playoff part figured out.
Only the best of the best get named 1st team all stars.

Enjoy or hate on the player as you wish. He is a special talent.

Yes amazing SKILL maybe highest level of SKILL in league .. all-stars are awards based on points earned in regular season hockey nothing more nothing less .. but a top player has more than that a top player has straight away speed to break away from others, a top player has a decent shot, a top player can change game with a decent hit, a top player can amp up his speed and strength is playoff hockey when guys are going 100% all da time .. all those characteristics of a top player Mitch does not have available to him .. and it is why he will never be a top end player in playoff hockey and never has been one in his past since he was a kid .. Mitch gives er his all every time he goes on ice he is ultimate try hard kid .. he just was not born with some of these innate characteristics like speed and god given power

 

[Bluelines]

I have watched the Leafs for 50 years. I have never seen a better passer, a player with better vision, and he is an awesome defensive forward with a fantastic engine. Mitch can thread passes through holes that do not appear to be there. He will get the playoff part figured out.
Only the best of the best get named 1st team all stars.

Enjoy or hate on the player as you wish. He is a special talent.

Well said. Great post.

 

[PromisedLand]

You'll never see a more talented leafs Core 4 in your lifetimes.

I'd prefer to see Leafs win a cup more than the talented Core 4 who keep getting their ass beat in the 1st round and a GM who is a MORON

 

[Bluelines]

Yes amazing SKILL maybe highest level of SKILL in league .. all-stars are awards based on points earned in regular season hockey nothing more nothing less .. but a top player has more than that a top player has straight away speed to break away from others, a top player has a decent shot, a top player can change game with a decent hit, a top player can amp up his speed and strength is playoff hockey when guys are going 100% all da time .. all those characteristics of a top player Mitch does not have available to him .. and it is why he will never be a top end player in playoff hockey and never has been one in his past since he was a kid .. Mitch gives er his all every time he goes on ice he is ultimate try hard kid .. he just was not born with some of these innate characteristics like speed and god given power

It's normal to doubt a young player, Matts Sundin was considered a wuss/chump in his first few years. Everyone doubted Lidstrom's ability to lead his team to the cup.

Contrary to the hot take posters on this forum, Mitch actually has an extremely hard working off season, the drills and work he puts in is second to none. Its fair to question the results, but for people to question his integrity or desire to win is IMO childish and inappropriate.

Have a little faith, this guy will be the hero in the playoffs, Just 3 series ago , I remember everyone lauding Marner because of his two block shots to end the game vs Boston to seal the win. The guy has heart, skill and the drive to win.