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How much faith do you have in the core 4?

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How much faith do you have in the Core 4 (Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, Marner)?

  • Have faith in core 4 stick with them

    Votes: 41 16.5%

  • Trade Marner; build around other 3

    Votes: 130 52.4%

  • Trade Tavares; build around other 3

    Votes: 13 5.2%

  • Trade Nylander; build around other 3

    Votes: 3 1.2%

  • Trade Matthews; build around other 3

    Votes: 5 2.0%

  • Trade whoever and do a proper rebuild with new management

    Votes: 47 19.0%

  • Other (provide your option in the thread)

    Votes: 9 3.6%
  • Total voters
    248
Rielly4 said:
lol I don't think ever in the history has a top 5 scorer in the NHL gotten so much shit from a fanbase.
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Has a top 5 scorer ever been so disappointingly lackadaisical while underperforming in the playoffs in multiple consecutive years?

For reference, in the last 3 years his playoff numbers are 17 games played, 1 goal and 10 assists.

You're free to lol of course, I'm feeling pretty sad myself.
 
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Rielly4 said:
lol I don't think ever in the history has a top 5 scorer in the NHL gotten so much shit from a fanbase.
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He hasn't helped himself
- contract negotiations a public shit-show demanding Matthews money and threats of offer sheets
-hasn't performed in the playoffs for 3 straight years
-keeps using terms like "I wasn't engaged" (last year in first game against CBJ), I need to meet my own expectations etc
-looked defiant in end of season presser and had a tone
-not one PP goal all year and that continued in the playoffs (Keefe is at fault here too)
-he played like he didn't want to get hit against the Habs
-he comes off as immature and not willing to put in the work to develop a better shot, becomes a little bit more physical etc
-given his contract demands not hard to believe he's demanded to play a certain way on the PP or wear the A

This is mostly on Shanny and Dubas however:

you can’t import character around a team’s core and change the team’s DNA. The character of the core is the character of the core, and having strong confident personalities around the fringes is great, but it’s Marner and Matthews and Nylander going over the boards in the big moments, not Thornton or Foligno or Simmonds.
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Maple Leafs autopsy thoughts: Where did it go wrong and what's next? - Sportsnet.ca
 
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The Iceman said:
Marner is a NHL 1st team All Star.
Our first 1st team All Star since 1976. They apparently do not grow on trees.
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Marner does not deserve that honour. He is the most overrated player in the league.
 
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bentharbs said:
Maybe so, but I’ll stick it out with a core that is 23, 24, 25, and 30 for a year or two longer.
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I hope our gm doesn't feel the same
They won't play hard, stick up for each other and year after year are easy to play against. That's going to change in a year or two?
 
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Lumberg said:
I hope our gm doesn't feel the same
They won't play hard, stick up for each other and year after year are easy to play against. That's going to change in a year or two?
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Literally every year a number of players get significantly better in one or two key areas, while others get significantly worse. Every single year. The growth that occurs from 23-26 often makes or breaks players’ careers — given that they are still in that stage I would rather be patient than blow it up for (likely) under value. I know folks around here hate to hear it, but they likely have no choice but to run it back and hope that the players grow.

There is no blowing it up and receiving fair value in return imo.
 
bentharbs said:
Literally every year a number of players get significantly better in one or two key areas, while others get significantly worse. Every single year. The growth that occurs from 23-26 often makes or breaks players’ careers — given that they are still in that stage I would rather be patient than blow it up for (likely) under value. I know folks around here hate to hear it, but they likely have no choice but to run it back and hope that the players grow.

There is no blowing it up and receiving fair value in return imo.
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No blowing it up just trade Marner
 
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It's not so much the core 4 but the subsequent massive overpays and coddling. Dubas is the epicenter of all team issues. I personally wouldn't have touched Tavares with a 10 foot pole. I don't pay that kind of coin for guys that can't skate. And Marner would get traded by me because I don't like his game. But drafting him was not the main issue. He was undoubtedly a better pick than Noah Hanifin who I think would have been the team's 2nd choice.
 
The hardest thing to do is wait for something you don’t believe in to end.

I don’t believe in Dubas and I don’t believe in this core. I don’t think these 4 are the right mix to get a team through the playoffs.

Not to mention half the cap is spent in the same area.
Top heavy especially at wing.

The core needs to change or be spread out different. One winger becomes an anchor defender or a different type of forward who has a different intensity.
 
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Trapper said:
The hardest thing to do is wait for something you don’t believe in to end.

I don’t believe in Dubas and I don’t believe in this core. I don’t think these 4 are the right mix to get a team through the playoffs.

Not to mention half the cap is spent in the same area.
Top heavy especially at wing.

The core needs to change or be spread out different. One winger becomes an anchor defender or a different type of forward who has a different intensity.
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And Dubas is the reason they take up half the cap. A good GM gets Nylander signed for $6, Marner for $8 and Matthews at his short term probably comes in around $9.5. And they should have completely passed on Tavares. Now, things aren't so bad.
 
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SeaOfBlue said:
I can give the Core 4 one more good shot at making major progress, which would be this upcoming year.

If it does not work out, I believe Marner gets moved similar to Thornton from Boston. I believe in Tavares, Nylander, and Matthews being able to take this team places without Marner.
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My thoughts on the matter as well. Marner was my favourite for a long time, huge fire in his belly, sacrificed himself on the ice, had amazing skill and crazy with the puck.

But facts are facts, you can't have all that PP time and score zero goals all season and not show up for the playoffs.

This is the make it or break it year for me and this core.
 
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Think people still are overreacting to a sport with a ton of randomness. They outplayed and outscored MTL, lost in 7 despite getting 1 goal from their 3 10+M forwards (not Tavares fault of course).

The way they lost was excruciating but if Price let's in one goal in g5/6, Mikheyev taps in the empty netter in the dying seconds, they move on. We can debate back and forth whether the team is flawed but Vegas played MTL worse than the Leafs did.

The margins of winning and losing in this league are just really thin.

They need to adjust the powerplay to make sure its lethal - they certainly have the personnel for it.

Marner for Eichel is something I could get on board with but aside from something like that I'm not sure how this team gets better by breaking up the forwards.

I just don't believe there is some underlying flaw with the "core" that is keeping them from winning. Maybe I'm insane, fair enough, I just think this sport is really f***ing random.
 
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GoLeafsGo96 said:
Think people still are overreacting to a sport with a ton of randomness. They outplayed and outscored MTL, lost in 7 despite getting 1 goal from their 3 10+M forwards (not Tavares fault of course).

The way they lost was excruciating but if Price let's in one goal in g5/6, Mikheyev taps in the empty netter in the dying seconds, they move on. We can debate back and forth whether the team is flawed but Vegas played MTL worse than the Leafs did.

The margins of winning and losing in this league are just really thin.

They need to adjust the powerplay to make sure its lethal - they certainly have the personnel for it.

Marner for Eichel is something I could get on board with but aside from something like that I'm not sure how this team gets better by breaking up the forwards.

I just don't believe there is some underlying flaw with the "core" that is keeping them from winning. Maybe I'm insane, fair enough, I just think this sport is really f***ing random.
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I was in this boat for a few years but at one point you have to admit that even though they're getting bad luck they're not doing anything to create good luck. Not getting mad about losing like other stars that get better every year because they hate losing is also a bad sign. If Marner has another year like this there's no way you don't move him before his NTC kicks in.
 
Martin Skoula said:
I was in this boat for a few years but at one point you have to admit that even though they're getting bad luck they're not doing anything to create good luck. Not getting mad about losing like other stars that get better every year because they hate losing is also a bad sign. If Marner has another year like this there's no way you don't move him before his NTC kicks in.
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I think the way they lost this year has rightfully shook people but they still played without Tavares the entire series.

If they crash and burn next year obviously it will depend on the context but certainly moving Marner feels more likely and reasonable. I think moving him now is reasonable given that the contracts were signed in an environment where they thought the cap was going to increase each year and then a global pandemic happened.

I just don't think we can look at the result this year and extrapolate such extreme conclusions about the core given one of the four players didn't even play and they still were a goal away from winning. I still think its reasonable to want to reallocate the money for the flat cap reasons if thats where people land though.
 
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Willchel Marlynder said:
Let's hope we've seen the most disappointing core 4 for our lifetime
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They still have 1 year.
Even though I have no faith right now, come playoff time (if they make it) we will all be cheering for them. I still envision a cup, but only because if I don’t then there’s no point in watching next year. Gotta aim for the top.
 
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