How Much Better Than Nylander Is Marner?

[Notsince67]

No idea why you would think that...
I had a friend about that size in the 80's and he played 10+ years in the NHL.
He couldnt skate well at all, but, he was one tough and strong SOB, and in the late 80's and through the 90's clutch and grab ruled, and skill was just smothered.

Right...so assume what you said was true. The poster said he couldnt make the show due to his weak skating stride. My response was that skating speed was not that important unless you were running away from the big solid guys. So I'm to believe he had skill yet was too slow to play in the NHL yet he was huge bodied.
This is all about an appeal to authority from a guy who thinks his playing experience makes him the most knowledgeable guy against everyone else (who he calls house league players)
Once you start smelling bullshit, you are pretty close to bullshit.

So lets summarize...Skilled player, too slow in the 80's but is nevertheless 6'5, 220-230 lbs.
The first real thoroughbred player in the league was Jagr....so I'd really like to know the 6'5 jacked like shit kid who got drafted into the NHL.

 

[mydnyte]

Right...so assume what you said was true. The poster said he couldnt make the show due to his weak skating stride. My response was that skating speed was not that important unless you were running away from the big solid guys. So I'm to believe he had skill yet was too slow to play in the NHL yet he was huge bodied.
This is all about an appeal to authority from a guy who thinks his playing experience makes him the most knowledgeable guy against everyone else (who he calls house league players)
Once you start smelling bullshit, you are pretty close to bullshit.

So lets summarize...Skilled player, too slow in the 80's but is nevertheless 6'5, 220-230 lbs.
The first real thoroughbred player in the league was Jagr....so I'd really like to know the 6'5 jacked like shit kid who got drafted into the NHL.

what i said at least, is true.
the guy i spoke of played 10+ years in the NHL, but under 400 games. he was a bottom pairing defender, huge, strong, and mean. ...he is only listed at 6'4" though.

'enforcers' were also common in the 80's and 90's and if you were mean and fought and could even 1/2 decently play, you had a job in the NHL.
true enough there may not have been too many 6'4" -6'5" guys playing back then, but, there were a few, and not many got a regular shift.

in today's NHL he wouldnt have made it past the minors because of his skating, but, back then (clutch and grab) he managed a decent career.

 

[mydnyte]

Right...so assume what you said was true. The poster said he couldnt make the show due to his weak skating stride. My response was that skating speed was not that important unless you were running away from the big solid guys. So I'm to believe he had skill yet was too slow to play in the NHL yet he was huge bodied.
This is all about an appeal to authority from a guy who thinks his playing experience makes him the most knowledgeable guy against everyone else (who he calls house league players)
Once you start smelling bullshit, you are pretty close to bullshit.

So lets summarize...Skilled player, too slow in the 80's but is nevertheless 6'5, 220-230 lbs.
The first real thoroughbred player in the league was Jagr....so I'd really like to know the 6'5 jacked like shit kid who got drafted into the NHL.

I cannot comment on that aspect, and the other guy's knowledge or lack thereof...
my opinions are only my own, and often against the grain.
i.e. i cant stand Hyman on this team and hate him in the top 6 or on the PP to the point, i HOPE he signs elsewhere.
there is always a lot of BS on the boards though, that goes without saying, as keyboard warriors are all enforcers in their own way.

 

[Notsince67]

back then, it was a different lifestyle... I was 6' 215 before i hit HS, and i never touched any drug in my life, and i wasnt the biggest in my little group of friends by a long shot, i was 'average'

an 'average' skater in the NHL today, would have been above average back then.
sucky skates, heavy, blocky equipment, no real or dedicated training etc.

for example, we had a friend who worked at a rink, so we'd always get free ice, and i had a friend 6'4" but a lean 210ish who would play 2+ hours without coming off the ice, except to light another smoke ...he'd play defense with a smoke in his mouth the entire night, nobody would do that now.
the bowl of pasta 'carb up' wasnt make believe, it was the standard, as was taking decongestants before a game. and then afterwards, they'd go out get drunk and eat pizza or Chinese food. nobody did nutrition, we just played.

A quick scan of any high school yearbook in the 80s in grade 9, would pretty well tell you that that wasnt a norm. I played in a AA league and nobody was 6'5 220 to 230 at 17. I also went to a hs of 3000 students. I wasnt the biggest kid but I was about 5 10, 170 going into grade 9. I remember because all the guys had to wrestle for gym. I can tell you that there were no 215 guys that weren't obese.

 

[tmlms13]

And Matthews should be signed to 8 years. Not sure who’s idea it was to let a rookie GM handle negotiations

AAV vs years is a basically a U curve. A 3 year bridge and 8 year max would have had to give him probably 13.0m.....The 5 year length would be the lowest at 11.6.

Before you say McDavid though...natural inflation of the cap, even 2 years counts for something. Like do you think Sid and OV would be signing their deals at that AAV if the cap was at 82.5 back then? Not a chance. Crosby's second contract was 5 years and a higher % of the cap back then.

And why are we all so insecure? We act like we're assuming he's going to leave at the end of this deal..... Why can't we act on the assumption we're going to resign him?

 

[Funk21]

Not 4 million a year is all anybody needs to know. If we are lucky enough to keep most of the big 3 I hope they realize greed to precedent over winning and to win everything you need players willing to sacrifice not just on the ice but sometimes in your pocketbook.

 

[ZEBROA]

Per playoff and goals is were i want Marner to be better then Nylander.

 

[PromisedLand]

The question should be Marner and Matthews since his salary is comparable to our franchise C.

The Caps had Ovi at 9.5 and Backstrom at 6.7 during their prime contracts. Goal scorer vs. playmaker.

Which should put Marner in the Aho contract range. Still above Nylander but not Matthews level.

Ovi is one of the greatest of all time. Matthews is not at Ovi's level IMO. Ovi has consistently produced, and is a beast hardly gets injured and plays really physical in playoffs

 

[PromisedLand]

How much better is Marners agent compared to Nylander ?

So Marner's agent met with Nylander's agent in a bar

Nylander's agent: How the hell did you get that deal?
Marner's agent: It's the glasses
Nylander's agent: What about them?
Marner's agent: They are fake, you knew that right?
Nylander's agent: Son of a ..........

 

[Notsince67]

Ovi is one of the greatest of all time. Matthews is not at Ovi's level IMO. Ovi has consistently produced, and is a beast hardly gets injured and plays really physical in playoffs

When Ovi signed, he got the equivalent of 15.5mm in today's cap dollars. Why are you so upset?

 

[darrylsittler27]

Can't wait till Marner begs for a trade.

 

[Martin Skoula]

OHL full of 6'5 220 pound monsters in the 80s until you look at an actual lineup and see that more than half of it is 5'9-5'11 and 160-190.

Here's Gary Roberts' 67s team, biggest guy is 6'4 209, next biggest guy is 6'2 206. 24 guys 190 or under.
https://www.statscrew.com/minorhockey/roster/t-10768/y-1985

 

[Notsince67]

Can't wait till Marner begs for a trade.

He is laughing at people like you who think they can raise a mob.

 

[hfman]

back then, it was a different lifestyle... I was 6' 215 before i hit HS, and i never touched any drug in my life, and i wasnt the biggest in my little group of friends by a long shot, i was 'average'

So this made you 6'2" in grade 8 and even this was a modest size in comparison to your peer group

Yet you consider yourself to have been 'average'


....haha no.

But I think you already know that. But that's cool, some people still seek that validation

 

[Notsince67]

So this made you 6'2" in grade 8 and even this was a modest size in comparison to your peer group

Yet you consider yourself to have been 'average'


....haha no.

But I think you already know that. But that's cool, some people still seek that validation

I remember the days when size 12s weren't that common yet half this forum has reported entering high school at 215+ and over 6 feet at a time when the average nhl player weight was 197

 

[Garthinater]

When Ovi signed, he got the equivalent of 15.5mm in today's cap dollars. Why are you so upset?

Ovy also signed for 13 years vs only 5 for auston.

For the last half of ovys contract he's paid below value. Matthews contract ends before it becomes good value.

Such an ugly contract. Front loaded, full of signing bonuses, short term relative to most and very high cap hit. Auston literally conceded nothing.

 

[Dreakmur]

When Ovi signed, he got the equivalent of 15.5mm in today's cap dollars. Why are you so upset?

When Ovi signed, he was in the middle of his Art Ross + Rocket Richard + Hart + Pearson season. In his 3 seasons on his ELC, he was 1st, 3rd, and 4th in goals. He was a first team all-star in all 3 seasons.

 

[Notsince67]

When Ovi signed, he was in the middle of his Art Ross + Rocket Richard + Hart + Pearson season. In his 3 seasons on his ELC, he was 1st, 3rd, and 4th in goals. He was a first team all-star in all 3 seasons.

And Matthews isnt paid anywhere near what he got paid.

 

[Dreakmur]

And Matthews isnt paid anywhere near what he got paid.

Toronto only paid for 1 UFA year. Washington paid for 10.

 

[Notsince67]

Toronto only paid for 1 UFA year. Washington paid for 10.

They paid a huge percentage of their payroll to 1 player for a long time. Equating the 2 is dumb. Ovi signed for a number the leafs never would have signed Matthew's for.

 

[Dreakmur]

They paid a huge percentage of their payroll to 1 player for a long time. Equating the 2 is dumb. Ovi signed for a number the leafs never would have signed Matthew's for.

The entire justification for the Matthews and Marner contracts was that their impact on the cap will go down every year. Longer contracts do that more...

 

[sxvnert]

Nylanders contract has better value and this team needs a goal scoring winger more than a playmaking winger.

 

[bentharbs]

Lol 88 people say he’s not better.

Ok then.

 

[Aashir]

Lol 88 people say he’s not better.

Ok then.

They are just mad. Even with this playoffs, no one should ever be convinced that nylander > Marner. Nylanders ceiling is probably like 80-85 points. Marners floor is looking like it’s 75-80 points. For those situations to occur, our team would need to be 1st in goal scoring or bottom 5 respectively

Playoff totals also favour Marner. All Marner needs to do is sort out his playoffs. He just doesn’t perform as an 11m player in the playoffs. 0 goals can’t happen in 18 games, those delay of game penalties need to be sorted out. He needs to build off this last regular season and continue that into the playoffs

 

[ZEBROA]

They are just mad. Even with this playoffs, no one should ever be convinced that nylander > Marner. Nylanders ceiling is probably like 80-85 points. Marners floor is looking like it’s 75-80 points. For those situations to occur, our team would need to be 1st in goal scoring or bottom 5 respectively

Playoff totals also favour Marner. All Marner needs to do is sort out his playoffs. He just doesn’t perform as an 11m player in the playoffs. 0 goals can’t happen in 18 games, those delay of game penalties need to be sorted out. He needs to build off this last regular season and continue that into the playoffs

Goals are more worth then assist but i belive Marner should and will beat Nylander there too. Its in the 11mark to do so. And with the pp1 and icetime he cant fail.