How Much Better Than Nylander Is Marner?

[ShaneFalco]

Well everyone gets paid the same in the playoffs.

his 11m salary is for what he does in the regular season.

nice try though.


Are hockey fans generally this dumb

No Dubas PAID for what he did in the regular season. And no Fred, are you 12?

 

[Craig Button]

Straw man argument. I never said that Kerfoot or Nylander are better than Matthews. Besides, Matthews post season numbers were impacted by Marner's ineffectiveness. Marner was even a liability at times.

However, I am saying that I think Nylander is a better overall player than Marner. It's not just based on their post season production. Nylander is a better skater, better sniper, a master of zone entries, he can win puck battles, he can set up plays, and he can defend. He is the more well rounded player of the two, and he has proven that he can elevate his play in the post season with less time and space and increased physicality.

Furthermore, if you factor in the ridiculous discrepancy between their salaries, I think it's far more beneficial to the organization to part ways with Marner and make better use of almost 11 million in cap space to bolster our roster.

If there was no salary cap, this would be a moot discussion, but in the current economic landscape of the NHL, having a soft skilled winger that disappears in the playoffs making almost 11 million dollars is not conducive to success as a team.

that is by far the dumbest thing I have ever read on hfboards.

 

[Craig Button]

No Dubas PAID for what he did in the regular season. And no Fred, are you 12?

Were you not the one that brought up salary?

11m for a playoff penalty killer.

Why did you bring that up?

 

[SoftDumpNtheCorner88]

Run away from what? Nylander hit and went to the dirty areas in the playoffs. Find a new narrative

Nooooo he absolutely did not.

He was playing more involved and found himself in the right places and buried them.

But let's not try to paint him off as that player... He was stick checking and raising sticks well... But he was in no way finishing any checks and pushing back after scrums.. he was okay with pouncing in the dirty areas at times but would be checked away pretty easy.. he just isn't that hard nosed player.

 

[ER89]

that is by far the dumbest thing I have ever read on hfboards.

I mean besides your own posts right?

 

[Clark4Ever]

that is by far the dumbest thing I have ever read on hfboards.

Lol.

We'll agree to disagree. If you can't even acknowledge that Marner's regression in the playoffs impacted Matthews' production, there's really no point trying to have a reasonable discussion with you.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Lol.

We'll agree to disagree. If you can't even acknowledge that Marner's regression in the playoffs impacted Matthews' production, there's really no point trying to have a reasonable discussion with you.

Nope clearly
When everyone knows MM is going to.pass and his shot isn't a threat.... we'll we all, errr most of, saw what happened

 

[Notsince67]

I don't know, ask the coaching staff...the same coaching staff that thought Thornton deserved to be on the top PP unit.

I was under the understanding that he was on the top powerplay.

 

[Antropovsky]

Well everyone gets paid the same in the playoffs.

his 11m salary is for what he does in the regular season.

nice try though.


Are hockey fans generally this dumb

Shutdown players generally are lower paid guys... the high paid shut down players are still expected to produce in the post season.

Are you not a hockey fan? How did you come upon getting an account on a hockey board?

 

[Cpt Maple Leaf]

For me it’s really a toss up. Offensively, I give the edge to Nylander (basically due to his shot). Defensively, the edge goes to Marner due to his PK abilities.

Soup is a better pk'er than Marner at 1.65...

 

[GardinerTheForward]

Not even that great of a PK specialist. He shot the puck out of play under no pressure during the pk, putting the team down by 2 men, and then cried in the box.

what a f***ing p***y. f*** you marner

 

[GardinerTheForward]

Well everyone gets paid the same in the playoffs.

his 11m salary is for what he does in the regular season.

nice try though.


Are hockey fans generally this dumb

Depends, are you a hockey fan?

 

[mikeyz]

11 mill for a playoff pk specialist
Not sure how anyone defends Mitch these days.

You know what? I have to give a buddy of mine credit for his (Up until now) accurate prediction of Matthews and especially Marner being guys who disappear and have the "deer in the headlights' look when the going gets tough in certain crucial games.

It all started that night JT made his return to Long Island. And obviously, we know what happened in that game. That was about as close to a playoff game type of atmosphere as you can possibly get in the regular season. And I remember my buddy telling me after that game something along the lines of "Mike. We're going nowhere in the playoffs anytime soon if we have to rely on Matthews and Marner to kick their game up a notch and take over a game. I saw enough out of them tonight to know what they're all about. They don't have anything anywhere near close to that "it" factor" and I ripped him for uttering what I thought was an extremely spicy, knee jerk reaction hot take after just 1 bad regular season game.

Fast forward 2 and a half years later and that take is not so hot anymore.

 

[Notsince67]

Matthews only played 70 games when he had 80 points... he was pacing 55 goals and 94 points.

Before Marner was stapled to #1 goal scoring centers he had 69 points in 82 games and 61 in 77 games. The same year Marner had 69 in 82, Matthews had 63 points in 62 games.

Marners numbers shot up when he was paired with Tavares. Look at Tavares previous linemates and you will see he has a history of boosting their statistics.

Take note that Matthews is over a ppg whomever he plays with....with Marner, without Marner..and he doesn't have a 50 goal scoring winger boosting his assists.

The separation between Marner and Matthews is much more than the seven hundred thousand it currently is.

Marner broke 90 point in 82 consecutive regular season games less than 3 months into starting with Tavares and has held over that since. How did that happen?

 

[Notsince67]

that is by far the dumbest thing I have ever read on hfboards.

It was really dumb but dumbest is a pretty high bar around here to meet.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I've come to the realization that many posters are incapable of separating their emotions from reality.

Marner has more playoff points than matthews, a 94 point season vs 80 and is signed for less money and more term.

If you are upset with mitch's contract, take it up with dubas and matthews.

So your method of evaluating players is to sort by points, got it.

Nooooo he absolutely did not.

He was playing more involved and found himself in the right places and buried them.

But let's not try to paint him off as that player... He was stick checking and raising sticks well... But he was in no way finishing any checks and pushing back after scrums.. he was okay with pouncing in the dirty areas at times but would be checked away pretty easy.. he just isn't that hard nosed player.

Compared to Marner he is.

 

[Antropovsky]

Marner broke 90 point in 82 consecutive regular season games less than 3 months into starting with Tavares and has held over that since. How did that happen?

In the first 38 games of the year of Tavares first season - Marner was on pace for 114 points. He had 53 points in the first 38 games.

If my math is right... after an explosive start with the newly signed Tavares..Marner cooled down to a 77 point pace producing 41 in the next 44 games.

He was on a 82 ppg pace 18 games into the next season with 2 goals and 18 points before Babs was fired and he was out with Matthews shortly after.

So if your stitching seasons together... consider the last half 2019 and first 18 games of 2019-2020 ... Marner was playing at less than a ppg pace (78 point pace). So after an explosive first 38 games, Marner was on a 78 point pace in the next 62 with Tavares (if he played with Tavares all the way up until Keefe was fired).

 

[JSn0w93]

Oh man, these poll results will make you sad. Get it together anyone who voted for Marner not being better, I'm mad about the playoffs as well, but I didn't lose my ability to think rationally because of it. This board has been a wasteland since they lost. I'd be floored if there was a GM in the NHL who would take Nylander over Marner if they made the same amount of money.

 

[Notsince67]

In the first 38 games of the year of Tavares first season - Marner was on pace for 114 points. He had 53 points in the first 38 games.

If my math is right... after an explosive start with the newly signed Tavares..Marner cooled down to a 77 point pace producing 41 in the next 44 games.

By mid December, Marner only played 33 games. He was scoring at a 1.13 point pace with Kadri (93 point pace) after playing on the 3rd line.
A bit disingenuous of you to push his production increase until he started playing with Tavares.

 

[Notsince67]

Oh man, these poll results will make you sad. Get it together anyone who voted for Marner not being better, I'm mad about the playoffs as well, but I didn't lose my ability to think rationally because of it. This board has been a wasteland since they lost. I'd be floored if there was a GM in the NHL who would take Nylander over Marner if they made the same amount of money.

This place will be a shit show next year against Nylander if Keefe separates Marner and Matthews.
The same people who say there is no difference between Marner and Nylander will be claiming that everyone is picking on Nylander after Matthews production justifiably drops and Nylander fails at hitting elite points.
I already feel sorry for him because he has the skill that the Leafs need but putting the bar of his value up at Marners, will set him up to fail.
There are only a few players in the world that can fill those shoes.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Willy has better skills than Mitch .. he is faster skater by far .. he has better shot by far .. he is much stronger again by far ..

what Mitch brings is creativity and passing skills in regular season hockey when game is slower and not as rough .. so Mitch will put up more points in regular season which drives contracts in pro hockey .. I think this poll was about regular season hockey, points and contracts but even with that in mind Mitch is not 4M per better .. but poll is somewhat confusing

 

[Notsince67]

Willy has better skills than Mitch .. he is faster skater by far .. he has better shot by far .. he is much stronger again by far ..

what Mitch brings is creativity and passing skills in regular season hockey when game is slower and not as rough .. so Mitch will put up more points in regular season which drives contracts in pro hockey .. I think this poll was about regular season hockey, points and contracts but even with that in mind Mitch is not 4M per better .. but poll is somewhat confusing

This again.
You think its a mistake to have a figure skating coach teach skating for the leafs instead of a speed skating coach?
I would bet that most hockey players are faster than figure skaters (going forward). The width of the blade would never be conducive to skating quickly so the figure skater would never train that way.

Edges are everything in hockey. Position IQ and movement are critical in getting time and space....speed isnt.

This dog doesn't hunt beyond Bantam hockey. Find another theory and learn why he made it and you didn't
Video Analysis: Mitch Marner’s Most Underrated Skill (thecoachessite.com)

 

[JT AM da real deal]

This again.
You think its a mistake to have a figure skating coach teach skating for the leafs instead of a speed skating coach?
I would bet that most hockey players are faster than figure skaters (going forward). The width of the blade would never be conducive to skating quickly so the figure skater would never train that way.

Edges are everything in hockey. Position IQ and movement are critical in getting time and space....speed isnt.

This dog doesn't hunt beyond Bantam hockey. Find another theory and learn why he made it and you didn't
Video Analysis: Mitch Marner’s Most Underrated Skill (thecoachessite.com)

Spoken like a true house leaguer .. it was a different game back 30 years ago and I know I did not get past I because my stride was not good enough .. I know as I coached him .. speed creates most advantage in hockey when hockey counts in playoffs .. Mitch does not get full hip or leg extension so he can't skate fast enough .. his stride is too short .. he needs to at least try to improve but he and his dad are stuck on their family instructor .. oh well keep working on your edges Mitch .. as I told you guys in atom/peewee/midget hockey power and speed come from maximum extension .. but heh you got your contract congrats and we all know it will be much more of same old same old come playoff time for next few years .. by da way Sandin has exact same problem too but at least he has committed to trying to improve his stride .. from Mitch all we hear is he is gonna da same old same old and more epic failures

 

[Notsince67]

Spoken like a true house leaguer .. it was a different game back 30 years ago and I know I did not get past I because my stride was not good enough .. I know as I coached him .. speed creates most advantage in hockey when hockey counts in playoffs .. Mitch does not get full hip or leg extension so he can't skate fast enough .. his stride is too short .. he needs to at least try to improve but he and his dad are stuck on their family instructor .. oh well keep working on your edges Mitch .. as I told you guys in atom/peewee/midget hockey power and speed come from maximum extension .. but heh you got your contract congrats and we all know it will be much more of same old same old come playoff time for next few years .. by da way Sandin has exact same problem too but at least he has committed to trying to improve his stride .. from Mitch all we hear is he is gonna da same old same old and more epic failures

Ahhh...you call me a house leaguer yet you presume to label a top 4 (in a really deep draft) pick and a top 5 point leader in the nhl this year as a below average skater.
You don't realize how absurd you sound?
You characterize me as a house league player in a poorly constructed ad-hominim (you know squat about what I've done in hockey btw) while assuring that your hockey bonafides gives you more insight than virtually every hockey scout who covered him pre-draft or any person who has watched games for years? I'm in my fifties so I'm not going to list my experiences but I do know (because I played) that there were a lot of slow players in that time and if you were a decent player, you didn't need to be a great skater if you werent a p***y. If we ever played against each other, I was the 5'10 kid at 190 pounds (jacked compared to almost everyone on the ice) that knocked your filling out of your head when I hit you. I was 17 when I stopped because I blew an ACL...and it really wasn't an easy fix back then.
So yeah...I call bs on your poor stride story except if it were needed to get away from guys like me.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Soup is a better pk'er than Marner at 1.65...

Yes, I think I’d agree. I was just answering the question about Marner and Nylander. But you’re absolutely right, especially with that HUGE difference in salary.